Quadrant stop

[Akavishon]

Last Sunday, we got slapped around pretty hard by gusty winds, right after sunset ... I later read on sailnet that a couple of boats nearby (Salem) were knocked down by sudden 35+ kt gusts, so I guess we did alright even if it looked hairy at times.

However, today I noticed that one of my quadrant stops got badly bent and ripped out from the cockpit floor - the bolt heads were neatly countersunk and bedded with caulk, and have been bent and completely pulled through the cockpit floor. I can only imagine that one of my inexperienced crew at the helm reached the limit of the wheel turn but continued to push hard, until the quadrant stop (well, cockpit floor, actually) gave way.

Admittedly, the cockpit floor is (or has been) wet and probably weak, and whoever installed the steering system did not care to create epoxy plugs for the through-bolts.

I have been googling around but can't find a replacement for the mangled quadrant stops - does anyone have any pointers?

TIA - Zoran

 

[mherrcat]

Just looks like a piece of extruded aluminum with a "gusset" welded to it. Any decent metal/welding shop should be able to fabricate a new one using the old one for dimensions. I think the stops in my 30+ are steel.

 

[newgringo]

Zoran,
That stop did get hit pretty hard! When you rebuild look into some cushioning for the stops. In my opinion the rudder angle on our E32-3s is too much anyhow and inserting some cushioning material to both limit travel and cushion the stops is a good idea. There is a discussion about what I did under installing the Raymarine Autopilot a couple of years back. If you can't find email me and I send you some stuff. Glad to hear you survived the blow OK. I have one experience in 35 kts or so and it is exciting. Boat did well except for the main sail - rippppp.
Jerry

 

[Akavishon]

Jerry, thanks ... I did a search on all your posts and found this - I suppose there is more that I haven't found?

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=4280

I think the weak point here is the cockpit floor - I know for sure that it was wet (the balsa probably rotten), though it doesn't feel spongy. The 'right' thing to do would probably be what's discussed in this thread, but I am reluctant to do that now, at the start of the sailing season. I'll inject/patch it up with some epoxy instead.

Unless I can find a ready-made replacement (I thought I had seen that somewhere on the net) I'll probably do as Mark says and ask my friendly local machinist for help.

The more I think about it, the more it seems that we were lucky. After the stop gave way, my overzealous crew may have kept working the wheel, possibly damaging the chain ... we may have lost steering altogether, in ~30kt after sunset - phew.

 

[newgringo]

Zoran, I sent you a pic of my rudder stop which limits rudder angle to +- 55 degrees and cushions the stop. Let me know if you do not get it.

 

[Sven]

After the stop gave way, my overzealous crew may have kept working the wheel

I don't think the crew imparted the force to cause the damage. They may not have prevented boat motion and wave action from slamming the rudder into the stop but I would not blame them for actually causing the slamming.


-Sven

 

[newgringo]

Sven, Really good point! Be thankful for just having good crew. The stops are reasonably strong and probably hold against wheel steering hand force. But a big wheel has a lot of kinetic energy and it slips away easily if wet with bare hands (I have had that happen). I found great benefit from a leather wheel cover to increase grip. No bangs since!

 

[mherrcat]

I'd check and make sure your rudder isn't cracked as well...

 

[Akavishon]

Jerry, yes, I got the photo - thanks!

Sven - This is not a matter of blaming anyone, and in any case, whatever MY crew does on MY boat is always MY fault, by maritime tradition, no? ("the skipper is responsible for anything that happens on the boat")

Good point though ... I had not noticed anyone losing control of the wheel at any point (and I do watch over them, closely! ), but it's certainly possible.

What has happened, and more than once, is that we were over-canvassed, got caught by a gust, pushed hard onto the lee rail while the boat turned violently into the wind (that's called broaching, no?) The crew at the helm was working very hard to counteract the force until I explained how to deal with such cases.

In the end, I don't really know, and it matters not much. Had the steering chain been damaged, we could have lost control over the rudder completely, with rather nasty consequences. Maybe it's better that this happened now (and will be repaired soon) with no consequences, instead of some other, possibly less convenient time and place?

I took the mangled part to a machine shop today and we just bent and hammered it back into its original shape. No big deal ... the hardest part will be to squeeze into the starboard lazarette to repair the damaged floor.

Mark - I checked the steering system (quadrant, sheaves, cables etc) and all seems good. I can't really check the rudder until I haul out again ... but certainly good point.

thanks all, Zoran

 

[Sven]

Zoran,

I think we are in full agreement.

Thanks,


-Sven

 

[mherrcat]

How does one deal with a broach?

 

[Sven]

How does one deal with a broach?

I'm going to give a purely theoretical answer and let others who have more practical advice to give do so.

The main thing to bear in mind is that in a broach steering rules suddenly don't apply as they usually do. A broach is caused by the bow (in the trough) having the water move as it usually does, from bow to stern, while the water at the stern doesn't. The water at the stern is moving from stern to bow. The obvious immediate effect is that the opposing flows end up twisting the boat unless you are perfectly aligned.

Again, from a purely theoretical perspective, I think the only way to react is to do so before it happens.

Set yourself up so that there is minimum deviation from what would be a straight course through the two opposing flows ... before they start acting on your boat. Once they grip your hull I'm not sure you can intuitively know when to steer backward to make up for the fact that the water over your rudder is moving as if you were backing up.

I'm sure books have been written on this subject

Damage to the rudder from the backwards flow is probably prevented by either manual buffering or stops with shock absorbers. I'm afraid that the hairline cracks in Senta's rudder are the result of me letting the rudder hit the stops when I was desperately trying to find a way to control her direction when backing up. I spent a lot of time trying to get the feel for how to do it before realizing that the lady would not succumb. I'm sure the cracks weren't there when we bought her from Lew.


-Sven