Rigging a topping lift on an E38

[PANorth]

I'm getting very close to being ready to sail my E38 after nearly three years of work. I recently discovered that a bagged main sail, which will replace the ragged one that was on the boat, is rigged with a Dutchman system. However, the boat is not rigged with a topping lift because it has a rigid vang. I like the idea of the Dutchman so want to rig a topping lift.
The pictures here show the sheeves and lines on the boom. The outhaul is rigged with a 10mm line attached to a cable inside the boom. As you can see it comes around the forward middle sheeve. Then it runs through the boom to the mast and back to the cockpit. What looks like it would be the topping lift sheeve (aft) is rigged with a much thinner line that runs halfway through the boom and attaches to a cleat on the side of the boom. You can also see the reefing lines on the outside sheeves.
My question is: should I switch these lines? Should the line/cable run to the most aft sheeve and be a cockpit controlled topping lift? Then the thinner line would be the outhaul controlled from forward, halfway forward on the boom?

 

[Christian Williams]

Both my topping lift and outhaul are cleated on the boom. Neither is led back to the cockpit. My outhaul uses the unused cleat shown in your photo, and the side cleat is for the topping lift.

It's a convenience to have the TL led back to the cockpit, since when reefed it is often necessary to take up slack. But I don't miss it, and it is only when using the second reef that I have to bother to climb up on deck and adjust the TL. Unless there is an issue with a dodger or bimini, the topping lift rarely needs any adjustment at all.

Note that my TL has a 2:1 purchase inside the boom, requiring a pennant through the sheave to which the masthead line is connected.

I almost never adjust the outhaul, either, so there is no reason to lead that back, for me.

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[bgary]

Both my topping lift and outhaul are cleated on the boom. Neither is led back to the cockpit. My outhaul uses the unused cleat shown in your photo, and the side cleat is for the topping lift.

Ditto, except that I use the side-slot for outhaul and the bottom-slot for topping lift, because - on those rare occasions when I want to adjust the outhaul - I find that bracing myself next to the mast and pulling straight forward is a more effective angle to effect an adjustment.

And, laziness being my core competency, I've found a magical spot for my topping lift where it holds the boom high enough in the cockpit when docked that I can avoid bumping my head, but it goes slack when the main is raised, AND it holds the main at a workable height when reefing or shaking out a reef. I can't remember the last time I touched it.

 

[PANorth]

You guys are great. This forum is a wonderful resource. Thank you.

 

[Christian Williams]

And, Phil and Amanda, re photo, we have all gone to much lighter reef lines these days. They run through the boom and sheaves much easier than the recommended Ericson reef-line diameters.

 

[PANorth]

And, Phil and Amanda, re photo, we have all gone to much lighter reef lines these days. They run through the boom and sheaves much easier than the recommended Ericson reef-line diameters.

What diameter is recommended?

 

[southofvictor]

Look forward to seeing you guys out on the water!

I‘d like to say I set it and forget it but in light air my upper battens hang up on it when tacking and it drives me crazy. I end up going back and forth to the boom multiple times, usually accompanied by a fair bit of colorful language!

 

[Pete the Cat]

Ok I will throw a wrench in here if you are going to use the Dutchman system. The Dutchman is quite handy once you get used to working with it and if the sail gets "trained" to fall on the boom. The problem is that the nylon "fishing line" that goes through the sail becomes UV damaged if left up when the sail is down--also, it is a bugger to clip the main sail cover around all those fishing lines. I put a cheek block on the side of the truck at the top of the mast and put an external topping lift through that. So when I get ready to stow the Dutchman I simply drop the whole Dutchman system and stick it in the sail and use the main halyard to hold the boom in place. This was recommended by the Doyle representative. Works well and simplifies stowing and reduces UV damage to the lines.

 

[bgary]

What diameter is recommended?

I use 5/16" (8mm) VPC from New England Ropes. There are lots of good choices.

 

[kiwisailor]

I had a Dutchman system on my previous E38 and loved it. I had the topping lift control line got forward to the center sheave and then back to the cockpit. You also need to consider what type of topping lift setup you want to use. The "B" system uses a loop system to a pulley at the mast head.

 

[PANorth]

Pete the Cat, we had planned to set up the Dutchman such that we could lower the monofilament to the boom and cover it with the sail cover. I have been noodling about how to set that up. Looking from the cockpit it looks like there is only one sheave at the mast head, for the main halyard, but there seems to be a place to attach a block. Any suggestions on a design are appreciated. Sherene and Mike, what is the "B" system. Any idea where I could find a picture?

 

[Pete the Cat]

Pete the Cat, we had planned to set up the Dutchman such that we could lower the monofilament to the boom and cover it with the sail cover. I have been noodling about how to set that up. Looking from the cockpit it looks like there is only one sheave at the mast head, for the main halyard, but there seems to be a place to attach a block. Any suggestions on a design are appreciated. Sherene and Mike, what is the "B" system. Any idea where I could find a picture?

I just went up the mast and put a cheek block on the side of the mast head. Ran an external topping lift through it. I did not come up with this idea, the sailmaker suggested it. I like the Dutchman system a lot, but would not if I did not have this arrangement.

 

[Dave G.]

What diameter is recommended?

I use 8mm NE Sta-Set. Don't think you need any ultra low stretch line for this application.

 

[kiwisailor]

Pete the Cat, we had planned to set up the Dutchman such that we could lower the monofilament to the boom and cover it with the sail cover. I have been noodling about how to set that up. Looking from the cockpit it looks like there is only one sheave at the mast head, for the main halyard, but there seems to be a place to attach a block. Any suggestions on a design are appreciated. Sherene and Mike, what is the "B" system. Any idea where I could find a picture?

https://dutchmar.com/dutchman-sail-flaking-system/sail-flaking-installation/ and B system manual