Sailmakers and modern sail design

[gadangit]

I don't have the budget for any modern materials or laminates for new sails. Most likely I'll have some sails made from Dacron. In reading about sails and sailmaking in books, this seems like a fine choice. My question is about computer aided design of sails.

I had a very large mitrecut headsail cut down by a local old school sail loft and I'm happy with the results. The sailmaker does all his own work, remembered the Ericson 39 (and even some of the finer detail of the boat) from back when there were several racing in the area and clearly knew A LOT about sails and sailboats. I would love to hire him again to make some new sails before he retires.

In looking around that internet thing, all the big brand sailmakers are advertising computer aided design, CFD analysis, etc. to advance the paneling design. I'm wondering if I can expect the same level of modern sail design from my local sailmaker that appears I would get from one of the larger outfits? All of the major brands are represented locally, so I can get a quote from everyone, but I've always liked staying local if I can.

My plans are to head down to the Caribbean to get a taste of cruising and, if I like it, sell my soul so I can stay out as long as I can. I'm not a big fan of fancy, so I can see myself wandering all over the place and seeing as much of the world as I can. Where that will lead me I have no idea. So for now the basis of design for the headsail and main are cruising around the larger Caribbean region. My sailplan is not yet decided, but I do have some ideas.

If you are still reading, here are my questions:
1. Do local unaffiliated sailmakers utilize some level of computer aided design?
2. Will I notice the difference in my sailing experience/performance if my sails are designed without the latest technology?
3. All the major brands advertise Dacron as if they have their own separate material. Do they or is it just rebranded from the same stock?
4. Anyone else go through this recently that has anything to share?

Thanks!

Chris

 

[e38 owner]

used sail

I can't answer regarding the cad design but a do have a used sail that I bought for my Ericson 38 that would probably work great on a 39
The sail was a little big for the 38 and I wanted a lower clew. It is about a 155 constructed for offshore use. Miter cut, foam luff, very good condition blue cover. I would be happy to send measurements if needed.

 

[gadangit]

used sail

I can't answer regarding the cad design but a do have a used sail that I bought for my Ericson 38 that would probably work great on a 39
The sail was a little big for the 38 and I wanted a lower clew. It is about a 155 constructed for offshore use. Miter cut, foam luff, very good condition blue cover. I would be happy to send measurements if needed.

Most excellent, can't hurt to entertain that. Send some measurements via PM.

Thanks!
Chris

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Chris

I use a small sail maker in South Carolina, Waters Sails, he uses a cad program to design sails and he has a vacuum table and a cutter that is computer driven. I think in today’s world most sail makers use a cad program to design and tweak their sails. There would be a difference in a computer designed and paper designed sail, not only the performance but the strength of the sail. The computer will calculate the load areas and determine reinforcements that are needed.

 

[Seth]

As for the Dacron.....

There are several manufacturers of dacron for sailmakers:

Bainbridge
Challenge
Dimension
Contender

These are the biggies I can recall of the top of my head-although there are at least 2-3 more who are suppliers to the Industry.

They all have a wide range of fabrics of different weights and yarn configurations (more important than weight, BTW).

The fabric that most big brands claim as their own is generally a rebranded OEM version of one of these, as you suspected.

Happy Trails

 

[clp]

Randy, does Waters have used sails? I'm needing another roller head sail for my ol' 29.

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Sorry but I don't think Joe has many used sails if any. But if you decide to get a new sail give him a call.

 

[toddster]

Re: CAD for sails. I think you just have to ask. There are software packages out there specifically for that purpose, and some independent lofts use them. As it happens, my sailmaker has been writing a column on this in the freshwater news, over the last few months (which is all I know about the topic) but they don't seem to be available on line, except for a sample issue.

 

[windjunkee]

It seems today that almost everyone draws their sail cloth from the same places. There are some unique products, like North's 3DL design, but as a general rule, all the sail lofts, even the small ones, get their stuff from the same place. The shaping of the sails has come a long way but there is generally nothing unique about it from one brand to the next. New sail cloth will be a huge and noticeable performance difference. For simple cruising, dacron is just fine as a fabric. You don't need carbon sails to cruise the islands. Designs are differ depending on your intended use of the sail, but that isn't particularly in the foil shape - rather it is in the draft placement and clew location.
I'm not a sail maker, I've just done lots and lots of sail shopping for my own boat and several others.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

 

[brianb00]

Recent sail quiver upgrade

I recently upgraded my sails for an Olson 34. I used a local loft. I had a similar question, similar to what you have asked. This particular loft, a small operation, used a much larger loft to determine sail shape and define the panel cuts for the sails I ordered. The sail was a CAD design and all panels were laser cut in an out of town large loft. The local sailmaker did all the assembly. I have to say I was very pleased with the results. My #3 was done in a modern low stretch dacron and the main was done in a higher tech fiber based sail with dacron like scrim.

I would suggest you just ask the experienced sailmaker about where the design will be done. What I like about this approach is service is local from a great guy and the quality of construction is his, not the distant shop.

I also ordered a kevlar #1 from a local shop. He offered local or Asian assembly. The design was the same. The local shop finished the corners. I went with the Asian assembly to save $$. Results also are excellent and again I have local support. Materials in both cases were from the usual top cloth manufacturers.

Best luck
Brian

 

[markvone]

Small Lofts can be fantastic

Chris,

In 1985 I bought an E-26 up in Mystic, CT. All the dacron sails for all the new Ericsons sold by my dealer were made by Kevin Farrar in his small loft, now Farrar Sails in New London, CT. I'm an engineer and Kevin always impressed me as a guy who really knew what he was doing when it came to sailmaking, he was quite a character otherwise. He was using computers for design back then. He was (still is) an excellent racer (2007 Int'l One Desigin (IOD) World Champ) and built a lot of the local racer's and cruiser's sails. I got to know him quite well while I lived in CT. He still runs a 3 person loft with his partner and his son. I have no doubt he could match any big name loft's product for any dacron cruising sails and exceed them in specialized one design sails such as the IOD where he has more experience. So if you can find a small local loft with this kind of expertise it can be a great experience. I sure there are other small lofts like this around the US.

Mark

 

[gadangit]

Thanks!

Most excellent replies, thanks so much!

Chris