To Lazy Jacks or Not To Lazy Jacks

[ref_123]

Hi Vikings,

I am about to go shopping for a new mainsail, so need some group wisdom here.

One thing I am getting sold on is a UK Sails craddle - a zip-up cover (aka Stack-Pack when sold by Doyle) with some sort of lazy jacks contraption to guide the sail in.

Does anyone have a personal experience with those? Any pros/cons?

Right now I have no self-flaking contraption on the main, and I am generally OK this way, but the idea to not go to the mast to flake mainsail while entering the channel does sound attractive...

Thanks in advance,
Stan

 

[newpbs]

Lazy Jacks

We sailed with a lazy jack system for many years. It was on my Dad's 31 foot Irwin. The zippered cover was great, but the lazy jack guide lines would sometimes catch on the edges of the mainsail batons. My E32-200 does not have a lazy jack system and I miss it, especially when it is time to get out the sail ties.

Good luck with your new main. I too could use some new cloth, but other needs must be met first.

Paul

 

[Mort Fligelman]

Main Sail Flaking

Hi Stan:

For what it's worth......as many of these comments are prefaced with.......

I had been talked into a "Dutchman" flaking system back in 1987 on my Seidelmann 299.......I sold the boat in 2006, and was enamoured of the system for those many years......so much so, that I have it on my E35III.

I found Lazy Jacks to be ineffective on many occassions when I have sailed with friends that have them......dead into the wind is an absoloute MUST......I can, and have lowered my main with the aid of a downhaul singlehanding, or when pulling down the bolt rope and slides when help is available.......once the sail has been left on the boom neatly flaked with the Dutchman it is almost mechanical.....

In short....I love the system.....Look into it....

 

[Blue Chip]

The older the bettter

We have a lazy jack system on blue chip that dates from 1990. At our age (mid-70s) it keeps us off the deck coming down the estuary. It really is better for the older ...and safer when the ferries come by!

 

[TRMN8R]

Like them on my e27...........I just ease the jacks some when hoisting in variable wind so that the battens don't catch. I single handed sail, so they're very useful.

 

[u079721]

I bought a new Dacron main with the Lazy Mate or Stack Pack or whatever they call it from UK in 2003 for our E38 (~$3500?). The convenience of the built in sail cover was fantastic. I have to agree with others that the downside to such a set up is that the battens can get caught on the lazy jack lines when raising the sail, requiring the boat to pretty much be dead on to wind. But that is true of just about any lazy jack system if you try to raise the sail without pulling the lines forward (something I never bothered with). My dockmate had the Dutchman system and loved it, but another member of our club could never get his to work properly, so I'm not sure about that option.

I will say that if you like the trade offs of the lazy jack system, getting one with the built in cover on the boom is the way to go. Next best thing to having a roller furling main.

 

[CaptDan]

Next best thing to having a roller furling main.

Agreed. Several years ago, I made a set of jacks (thanks to some back channel help from Glyn J.) - similar in design to the more expensive, off the shelf Harken rig. For single or short handed sailing, they're a huge benefit.

As others have said, hoisting requires dead to the wind luffing; every so often a batton will get fouled, but it's an easy thing to remedy. I think the style and cut of the mains'l has to be taken into consideration too; a larger, full batton design is more prone to fouling than our 'Frisco Main' - short footed variant.

Botton line: roller furling, lines lead aft and jacks (of some sort) - once you've got 'em, you can't do without 'em.

Capt Dan G>E35II "Kunu"

 

[Mike.Gritten]

I'm putting in my 2 cents worth in favor of the Dutchman flaking system recommended by Mort above. I first sailed with one on a 28 Catalina at our sailing school and fell in love with it. When we bought our current boat, Papillon, an E35-II, it came with a lazy jack system that gathered the main on top of the boom. It worked and we would simply flake the sail at the dock or in the anchorage before putting the cover back on. It did have its downsides though. It would catch the battens from our full batten main when raising the sail so we created a way to un-deploy it (???, lower it and harden the lines to the mast with a cleat, while leaving the lines running up the mast). This would allow us to raise the sail with no problem, but, when we went to lower the sail, we had to go and deploy the lazy jacks again. When at anchor or at the dock, the lines lashed to the mast would rattle to beat the band and we had to bungee them to keep them quiet. Last spring we ordered a new main from Quantum and we opted to have them install a Dutchman system at the loft so we could ditch the lazy jacks. Cost was $700 CDN or about an additional 20% over the cost of the main itself. The result was fantastic. I will never buy a mainsail again without having the Dutchman system installed. It is so simple and works so well, it makes using the main a treat not a chore. We are much more inclined to raise the sail and therefore sail more often because we are less intimidated by the prospect of lowering it. Once set up, there is nothing to do apart from heading up and releasing the main halyard. As the sail comes down the system neatly flakes it over the boom. When you pull into the anchorage your peers will be impressed at all the effort you put in to the care and feeding of your nice, new sail! It doesn't interfere with sail shape or sailing at all, in fact you forget that it's installed until you go to lower the main.
BTW, I took about 4 times the weight of the Dutchman off the boat when I removed the lines, blocks and fittings for the lazy jacks so it was a win - win.
One last recommendation is to go with a loose-footed main (see other discussions on this point elsewhere on the site). You won't be sorry!
I'll look and see if I have pics of the install for another post.

 

[dwigle]

I've used both the Dutchman system and lazy jacks, plus occasionally going out on a friend's boat with the Stack Pack.

Our old boat came with a Dutchhman that had been added to an old sail. Since the sail already had a memory flaking was only fair, but way easier than nothing. When we replaced the sail, and the new sail devolped its flaking memory based on the Dutchman, after a few usages we would just turn into the wind and release the halyard and head for the slip needing only a little touch up for a perfectly flaked sail. Reefing was also nicer as the sail stayed on the boom without using the reefing ties, so with lines led aft there was no need to leave the cockpit and everything could be accomplished in seconds. The down side is that the nylon lines were hard on the sail, actually cutting through the original sail in places and wear was showing on the newer sail before we sold her. Sail tape where the lines would touch the sail would probably help this. Also, you probably need your sail cover modified, though I have seen some that lowered the Dutchman to fit the lines under thecover.


Currently, we are using retractable lazy jacks which help in flaking the sail and are out of the way the rest of the time, plus I didn't need to modify the sail cover. When we go out on our friend's boat with a Stack Pack, getting the battens past the non-retractable lazy jacks is sometimes a problem, and always something we have to worry about.

Don Wigle
Wiggle Room
E38 #8

 

[Kim Schoedel]

Jiffy Jax

When we purchased our 35 three yrs ago, there was no system at all for the main sail. Our previous boat, 30' Catalina had a Lazy Jack system, however, it was such a pain to retract it that I just left it deployed all the time. I know, how tacky but also very handy. I don't think it was a design flaw, probably improper installation by the PO. So I held off in the beginning on the Ericson. Not a good choice! When in shifting winds, and having someone at the wheel (or no one at all), it was an exercise in learning new cuss words and at the same time hoping to live long enough to get the the beast tied down.

So, we ended up with a product called Jiffy Jax. Once installed, my wonderful wife started speaking to me again and marital bliss was once again.

You can check out jiffyjax.com if you want. Once I got mine and showed fellow sailors how they work, several people at the Marina have them now.

BTW, other than being a very satisfied customer, I have no interest in this company, financial or otherwise.

 

[rwthomas1]

My E38 has lazy jacks that came with the boat. I do have issues with them. They way I understand it the legs of the system should be "locked" or tied once the correct leg lengths have been established? My setup is not and so the sail will spill off the boom if the jacks are not snug when the sail is lowered. This requires a trip to the mast to deploy the jacks, then another to slack them to allow proper flaking of the sail, which I have to do to put the cover on anyway. I have tried "locking" the legs temporarily but then the lines do not stow well against the boom when sailing. Its a compromise. I rarely have issues catching a batten however. Just head up and pay attention while hoisting. The sail cover is cut with keyholes to allow the lazy jack lines to remain in position, it came like this. I take the lines forward to the gooseneck and secure them while sailing as they will whip/slap the lee side of the main, making enough noise to drive me insane, never mind the chafing.

I would really like to try a Dutchman setup. All the complaints I hear about them seem to originate from incorrect adjustment.

RT

 

[ref_123]

Thanks everyone!

Hi Vikings,

thanks for the collective wisdom. As always, site proves to be invaluable.

Best regards,
Stan