32-3 boom topping lift replacement

[nquigley]

I'm planning to replace what I think is my boat's original boom topping lift (the in-boom portion and the wire topping lift).
Here are the specs from the Manual for the in-boom line and for the lift line wire, and a pic of the in-boom line cleated on the boom, and the wire-to-wire connection at the end of the boom.
Although it's not in the specs in the Manual, it looks like I probably have a wire-rope splice inside the boom ... can anyone confirm this?
I'll use a mouse line to pull the in-boom line out, but before I do that, I'd like to know what I'll find: e.g., if the in-boom wire passes over a block, that block will likely be metal, and narrower than any block that the 3/8" line will use - so, I'd need to plan accordingly for the diam of the mouse line I'd want to use.

 

[jtsai]

My 32-3 topping lift is identical to yours. There is a rope to wire spice inside the boom.

 

[Christian Williams]

I don't think I had a wire-to-rope splice on my 32-3. As I recall, the wire was just intended to go through the sheave and was connected by a shackle at both ends, interior and outside to the TL itself.

All pretty obvious when you get in there. My 381 topping lift is the same rig plan, but the wire pennant portion is now Spectra, as is the entire exterior topping lift.

E32-3 - Paint Boom, Revise Outhaul, Thelonious

My black Kenyon boom was in pretty good shape, just a few dings and a bit of bubbling around the SS fittings. But the outhaul car was frozen in the track and the outhaul and topping lift gear were jammed deep inside. In my garage the end caps...

ericsonyachts.org

E381 - New Spectra Topping Lift, Thelonious II

The original Ericson topping lift was heavy stainless wire, coated in vinyl. I've tossed it, but the effective diameter was 3/8ths or more. It was dirty--how do you clean a fixed topping lift? I was unable to easily check the top shackle. The...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[nquigley]

My 32-3 topping lift is identical to yours. There is a rope to wire spice inside the boom.

Thanks!

 

[nquigley]

I don't think I had a wire-to-rope splice on my 32-3. As I recall, the wire was just intended to go through the sheave and was connected by a shackle at both ends, interior and outside to the TL itself.

All pretty obvious when you get in there. My 381 topping lift is the same rig plan, but the wire pennant portion is now Spectra, as is the entire exterior topping lift.

E32-3 - Paint Boom, Revise Outhaul, Thelonious

My black Kenyon boom was in pretty good shape, just a few dings and a bit of bubbling around the SS fittings. But the outhaul car was frozen in the track and the outhaul and topping lift gear were jammed deep inside. In my garage the end caps...

ericsonyachts.org

E381 - New Spectra Topping Lift, Thelonious II

The original Ericson topping lift was heavy stainless wire, coated in vinyl. I've tossed it, but the effective diameter was 3/8ths or more. It was dirty--how do you clean a fixed topping lift? I was unable to easily check the top shackle. The...

ericsonyachts.org

Thanks! I didn't think about a short wire pennant just for the segment that rides over the sheeve at the end of the boom.
I'll pull the whole contraption out from the aft end of the boom, with a mouse line following it.

 

[jtsai]

Thanks! I didn't think about a short wire pennant just for the segment that rides over the sheeve at the end of the boom.
I'll pull the whole contraption out from the aft end of the boom, with a mouse line following it.

While we are on this subject, does anyone know if the reefing lines on 32-3 route through pulley/block inside the boom or they are straight throw?

 

[Christian Williams]

The Kenyon boom internal reef lines enter the sheave at outer boom and run direct to the small cheek blocks built into the cast aluminum gooseneck, where they turn down to the mast-base turning block.

The stock gooseneck has small clutches for reef lines, to be used in the event reef lines aren't led back to the cockpit. They don;t work very well, and if the reef lines are to be led back they can be removed entirely (as in picture).

Note that the reef line in the picture has to run over (on top of) the cross bolt that holds the bail (that cross bolt also holds the internal cascade). That can be a source of chafe if incorrect.

 

[Kenneth K]

There was a lot of "in-boom" discovery going on in this old post:

E32-3 Reefing Mysteries [Master Thread]

There is nothing I want more than to be able to reef my main. I mean, refrigeration would be nice but here I am in year two, more than a little baffled by the subtle differences between the pictures in the manual and the bits and pieces I have found in plastic bags under berths. Below are a few...

ericsonyachts.org

Neil -- there were no wire-to-rope splices in my boom, just shackled connections. Check out post #28 for diagrams on how the topping lift was run (I believe it was the factory setup).

Jeff -- it seems that the factory setup was to run the reefing lines straight through the boom. This caused me lots of head-scratching when I disassembled mine, as one of the POs re-rigged my boat for single-line-reefing on both of the in-boom reef lines. The guts of the SLR setup are shown in posts #27/28 of the link above.

In the end, I wound up keeping single-line-reefing for reef #1 and switched reef # 2 to separate tack and outhaul lines:

Re-visiting single-line reefing

I did an almost complete redo of my running rigging, deck organizers, and rope clutches since last season. When I re-built the boom last year (new sheaves, new internal lines), I considered pulling all the existing internal tackle that was installed for single line reefing. In the end, I...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[nquigley]

Thanks, Ken.
So - I'm gonna have to take the boom's end casting off to check the wire pennant, and take off the gooseneck end's casting if I also want to replace the 3/8" line. Hmmm, I'm starting to loose interest in this refurb job.
Maybe I'll just take of the aft end casting off and inspect the wire pennant - maybe just end-for-end it - and remain in denial about the condition of the (original?) line.
At least I can easily get a replacement made of the 25' length (with swaged eye termini) from boom end to masthead - perhaps with the next gauge larger wire, but without the plastic covering.

 

[Christian Williams]

Spectra is a great alternative to wire for that application.

 

[nquigley]

Spectra is a great alternative to wire for that application.

I'm a big fan of dyneema-type line, for the right applications (I replaced my lifelines with dyneema a year ago, and used it for my removable inner forestay)
Are you saying I could use spectra for all of the currently wire parts of my topping lift? - the 25' segment from the masthead to the boom, and also for the bend around the boom-end sheeve and to the block in the boom - or just for the masthead-->boom segment?

I know it's plenty strong enough, but how would it go for being uv-exposed while continuously under load (at the dock)?
- what about being constantly 'worked' by the sheeve at the end of the boom if it's to replace the wire pennant too?
- I read that dyneema-type line doesn't like making tight turns when under load (e.g., if a spliced eye is held by a shackle). Would I need one of those low-friction rings inside the spliced eye at each end of the topping lift to let the line ease more gently around the bend? (I used these at the termini of my dyneema lifelines)
Thanks!

 

[Guy Stevens]

I'm a big fan of dyneema-type line, for the right applications (I replaced my lifelines with dyneema a year ago, and used it for my removable inner forestay)
Are you saying I could use spectra for all of the currently wire parts of my topping lift? - the 25' segment from the masthead to the boom, and also for the bend around the boom-end sheeve and to the block in the boom - or just for the masthead-->boom segment?

I know it's plenty strong enough, but how would it go for being uv-exposed while continuously under load (at the dock)?
- what about being constantly 'worked' by the sheeve at the end of the boom if it's to replace the wire pennant too?
- I read that dyneema-type line doesn't like making tight turns when under load (e.g., if a spliced eye is held by a shackle). Would I need one of those low-friction rings inside the spliced eye at each end of the topping lift to let the line ease more gently around the bend? (I used these at the termini of my dyneema lifelines)
Thanks!

Luggage tag, or more accurately a spliced in larks head hitch will take care of the radius needed for the dyneema in this application around the shackle.
I would use dyneema for the masthead to above the boom segment, and line of your choice for the internal tackle in the boom. A good double braid of the correct size will work just fine.
Guy

 

[goldenstate]

When I had my Colligo standing rigging made, I ordered a boom topping lift (mast to boom) made from dyneema line too.

Neil - if you did your lifelines then I presume you know how to do a locking eye-splice (very easy in single-braid).
The one that Colligo made for me has a stainless thimble and heatshrink around the splice portion. Seems like overkill.
Especially if Guy says a simpler knot suffices(!)

 

[Guy Stevens]

There is still a eye splice, but the eye is big enough to make a larks head with. This makes it so that the diameter of the bend of the dyneema is 2x the line size. (It has to go around to of itself for the larks head. Use a large as possible shackle so that the diameter is a big as possible as the line passes around it also.
Guy

 

[nquigley]

Thanks, Tom and Guy,
Y'all have convinced me to go with dyneema (pre-stretched HTS) for the main segment - thank you.
Yes, locked brummel splices would be the ticket. The continuous ss eye is a good idea - I'd forgotten that I'd used that on my inner forestay.
Tom - any idea what size of line Colligo used? ...
1/4" would seem to be vast overkill.
3/16" has a breaking strength of 6,050 lb
1/8" is 2800 lb.

 

[goldenstate]

Mine is 5mm Dynice, +/- .2".
Overkill, but much lighter than cable on your rig.

If you ever need to pull your engine out at the dock, you can do it with your boom...

 

[nquigley]

Mine is 5mm Dynice, +/- .2".
Overkill, but much lighter than cable on your rig.

If you ever need to pull your engine out at the dock, you can do it with your boom...

Thanks.
5mm = 3/16" - that's what I was thinking of getting.

FYI - as a boat spare for heavy lifting, temporary back-up standing rigging, etc, I bought a couple of these:

Amazon.com: Ucreative 3/16" x 50' 7000LBs Synthetic Winch Line Cable Rope with Black Protecing Sleeve for ATV UTV (Gray): Automotive

Buy Ucreative 3/16" x 50' 7000LBs Synthetic Winch Line Cable Rope with Black Protecing Sleeve for ATV UTV (Gray): Cables - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

They are in the 'towing' category, not 'boating/marine' so they're cheap: @ $14 for 50' with free Prime shipping, spliced end and ss thimble, I felt like I was stealing something. At marine retailers, I feel like I'm being extorted most of the time.

 

[RCsailfast]

I replaced the stainless boom wire for the topping lift last year as it was frayed pretty bad. Poked on too many holes in my hands. Also welded the ears on the end boom attachment which had been chewed up pretty good too. It looked almost new after painting and has held up great with hardly a nick.

Unfortunately the crimps on the ferrule at the thimble failed causing a bit of excitement. It was late in the season while raising the sail in rough seas. Finished the rest of the year using the second reef for the topping lift.
Not sure what caused the failure as I have made hundreds of cables with no issue, but none were stainless. I used a stainless ferrule and wonder if that might be part of it. Stainless is hard and doesn’t conform around the strands as well as softer material. From the pictures on this thread the ferrules don’t look to be stainless. Does anyone know what material they are made of?
Would be nice to have a topping lift I can trust.

 

[Christian Williams]

The Ericson in-boom TL wire pennant can be Spectra--as can the entire topping lift. My rigger suggested it, and there has been zero chafe in two years.

 

[Mark David]

The Ericson in-boom TL wire pennant can be Spectra--as can the entire topping lift. My rigger suggested it, and there has been zero chafe in two years.

... any wear on the leech of the main?