Bluewater boat

[La Papi]

Hello,
I am a new member to this forum (just signed up this morning). I am in my research stage of selecting a boat for the purpose of circumnavigating; most likely single-handed. I live in Portland, Oregon and I saw an Ericson 31 Independence for sale here locally. I have been researching and reading about the qualities one should consider when selecting a boat for bluewater sailing, one that would be suited to single-handed or short-handed sailing. Most owners and experienced circumnavigators talk about the safety of the boat as it pertains to sailing in gale force winds as the first criteria for selection. Comfort in high seas I gather to be the second important criteria. Speed of the boat would not necessarily be a highly critical aspect that I would look for in my boat, as I have not plans to be in a rush to complete my journey.
With this in mind, I would like to reach out to this community to gain from anyone that has experience sailing a 31 Independence as a bluewater boat.

I thank you in advance for any kind comments and advice,

Ron

 

[La Papi]

Further to my earlier post, I wanted to share which other boats are on my consideration list: Westsail 32, Tayana 37, Valiant 40, Spencer 35, Wauquiez Gladiateur.

Thank you,
Ron

 

[Loren Beach]

Further to my earlier post, I wanted to share which other boats are on my consideration list: Westsail 32, Tayana 37, Valiant 40, Spencer 35, Wauquiez Gladiateur.

Thank you,
Ron

I predict that your starting 'list' will get pared down and/or changed as you discover that some of the listed choices are not logically comparable. i.e. they seem sort of like "apples to oranges" but actually are more similar to apples to walnuts.

Since you are just starting out, I suggest that you include some of the larger Ericson's on it.
There are some great threads here on ocean-capable cruisers, with, of course, an emphasis on Ericson's.

BTW, I know some background trivia about the E-31C down in St Helens, and it is in very good condition.

 

[goldenstate]

What is your background in sailing?

 

[Christian Williams]

This will not be a useful discussion here. Check in at one of the armchair-argument forums and you will get an earful of conflicting nonsense on the topic "what boat should I buy to sail around the world."

 

[La Papi]

What is your background in sailing?

First, I have never owned a sailboat of my own, nor have I been at the helm for any significant distance. While I have sailed on several occasions with friends (experienced sailors) in bays (Chesapeake Bay, SF and others) and some close to shore ocean sailing (Lima, Peru), I am certainly one that will be practicing quite a bit before setting off to conquer the oceans of the world. While it may be an absurd or ludicrous comparison, I was an accomplished windsurfer in my youth and hence have a working understanding of wind on a sail. I do not get motion sickness on a boat.

 

[La Papi]

I predict that your starting 'list' will get pared down and/or changed as you discover that some of the listed choices are not logically comparable. i.e. they seem sort of like "apples to oranges" but actually are more similar to apples to walnuts.

Since you are just starting out, I suggest that you include some of the larger Ericson's on it.
There are some great threads here on ocean-capable cruisers, with, of course, an emphasis on Ericson's.

BTW, I know some background trivia about the E-31C down in St Helens, and it is in very good condition.

I am not sure I understand why my list of potential boat considerations are not a fair comparison. As per my research and first criteria for selection (a safe boat), all of the boats on my list are considered to be well constructed safe boats that are very capable bluewater sailors.

With regards to the larger Ericson models, it concerns me that they all seem to have an unprotected spade rudder, which by all accounts from my research tell me my exposure to potential problems from ocean debris is too high.

 

[La Papi]

This will not be a useful discussion here. Check in at one of the armchair-argument forums and you will get an earful of conflicting nonsense on the topic "what boat should I buy to sail around the world."

Thank you for this advice; any specific forum that you would suggest?

 

[Christian Williams]

Sailnet is a popular forum willing to engage broad issues. https://www.sailnet.com/forums/#general-interest-forums

A search for "bluewater" there will get you started.

For a more rollicking exchange of views, try Sailing Anarchy. https://forums.sailinganarchy.com/

The forums all have their own evolved cultures, depends on which suits.

However, if you want advice, what you should do is buy a sailboat and sail it. The first boat you buy will not be the one you sail around the world. You will develop needs and then find a boat that answers them. At the moment your question is the equivalent of a pre-law student asking the best path to becoming a member of the supreme court.

 

[driftless]

This will not be a useful discussion here. Check in at one of the armchair-argument forums and you will get an earful of conflicting nonsense on the topic "what boat should I buy to sail around the world."

Except that's not the question Ron asked. He asked specifically about bluewater experience on a 31 Independence.
Forum cultures are evolved Mr Williams, not dictated, even by moderators.

Welcome Ron. Congratulations for having a dream and taking steps to achieve it. Don't let anyone dissuade you from it or interrupt your passion with negativity.

If you dive into those forums and threads which Christian has referenced you'll quickly figure out why questions such as yours are met with the kind of negative responses displayed above. You'll also learn a lot about the qualities and characteristics of sailboats to compare and contrast as you do your research. If you're lucky, you might stumble across some helpful references that will give you even more ideas, from authoritative sources.
Two I'd recommend are John Kretchsmer and Beth Leonard.

I don't have experience with the 31 Independence, so can't comment on that specific boat. But I can tell you that if you dig through this forum you'll find several examples of Ericsons that have crossed oceans and the considerations that have been taken in preparing them to do so. As well as plenty of members opining on the seaworthiness of their boats.

Cheers from a fellow novice sailor whose first large sailboat purchased was an Ericson 38-200 in a large part because of her "bluewater" characteristics and capabilities.

 

[Loren Beach]

However, if you want advice, what you should do is buy a sailboat and sail it. The first boat you buy will not be the one you sail around the world. You will develop needs and then find a boat that answers them. At the moment your question is the equivalent of a pre-law student asking the best path to becoming a member of the supreme court.

Good advice that pretty much gets to the heart of the matter. Most of us, altho certainly not all, started out with a good-sailing boat in the 18 to 22 foot range that we sailed often, raced often, camp-cruised on.. often. And then (in my area) started crewing on deliveries to gain experience on a wide variety of boats.
As I remember from a lecture by Buddy Melges (shameless name dropping) the most important thing to do to get to be a better "Tiller Wiggler" is to spend Time Sailing - lots of time.
BTW, altho the subject was not raised yet.... racing is valuable for this -- Not.... because any of us need more odd looking platters for serving snacks to impress friends, but rather to get us out on the water learning to make the best of ALL sailing conditions whether sunny, rainy, windless, or with lots of wind.

Whatever the one design options are in your area, acquire one and sail the socks off of it.
I and a buddy raced double handed (white sails division) for five years with a Ranger 20. After putting in 40 or 50 starts a year, we made fewer - but never zero - errors and usually were in the *fastest group.
Tiller time. And sail handling time. Time... it's always gonna be about time....


But if it's not boats, guess there's always golf. Ick.

 

[goldenstate]

Another path is to join a club that offers lessons in the ASA or US sailing program and has a portfolio of different boats for you to try and about which you would learn. I did that and then bought a boat. A club only seems expensive until you buy a boat.

 

[Frank Langer]

And what has not been mentioned yet, read alot about the experiences of others, and then learn how to repair or replace every piece on a boat, because parts fail. Once you know how to maintain all parts of the boat, do repairs under tough conditions, like going to the mast head to replace sheaves in rolling seas, jury rigging a replacement rudder with items already on board, etc.
Good luck!
Frank

 

[K2MSmith]

Been doing a lot of research in this . There are different philosophies of blue water cruising that have evolved in recent years , especially with advent of better weather tracking and technology. You don’t necessarily need a heavy full keel boat to cross an ocean . In fact, you could even do it in a fast planing monohull boat, setup/ designed for shorthand with the right autopilot, electronics and offshore gear (ex: pogo 30 ). It wouldn’t be comfortable but you can do it . Thanks My boat is an early 80’s racer cruiser. It’s relatively fast for what it is and I would have no problem sailing it to Hawaii and back with a month or two of prep.

 

[Sean Engle]

Experience and exposure to lots of different conditions are obviously requisite for anyone contemplating going offshore. 'Supreme Court' indeed.

That said, I would tend to concur with Tyler that the encouragement of those with less experience under their belt and a greater balance in their 'dream account' are vastly important also. I believe the description of this site actually speaks to the support of "prospective owners" - and rightfully so. If the line is to live on longer, then those coming for here for information need to feel it not unreasonable to ask (even if upon reflection, that ask is very elementary in nature). I've had lots of people who tell me they purchased an Ericson in part because of the friendly community they've found on this site.

I would hope that we can all recall what it is like to be the one seeking information. To be the one without credential. To recall being the one who risks (unknowingly or otherwise) putting out a query - simply because we have not lived that portion of our lives as of yet - and don't have the answer we seek.

//sse

 

[Filkee]

I can’t recall if I’m four years or five into big boat life. 32-3 probably qualifies as middle-sized in this club. Before that, most of my tiller time had been on a boat with hiking straps. The steward (at my fancy yacht club) was running me ashore last night and he recalled the first time I ever picked up a mooring there and how he was kind of worried about me. I was worried about me too, but now I can come to a dead stop and grab it by myself in any wind if nobody’s watching. Repition is the key to understanding. And read Tania Abie’s book, Maiden Voyage. She circumnavigated in a
27 footer with no engine most of the time. Read lots of books and sail a lot—especially in weather that is less than ideal. You can find that even in fresh water.

 

[La Papi]

I hope you will all accept my sincere and deepest gratitude for the kind advice expressed in your responses. I take away much wonderful advice which I have every intention on putting into practice; there is no substitute for getting out and practicing, read many books (I already have a half dozen books on my desk), look for experience from others, etc. All excellent advice.

I will continue to seek advice from owners of the 31 Independence as it pertains to her bluewater ocean capabilities, as this is a boat to which I have ready and close access. So while I heed to the advice that there is no better time spent than that on the water learning, I do not surrender yet the idea that my first boat will also be the one to carry me safely over the oceans along my path around the world.

Amongst the books on my desk currently, I am on the finishing pages of Joshua Slocum's, Sailing Alone Around the World, which keeps the imagination churning, a couple of books by famed author Jimmy Cornell, the Chapman Piloting & Seamanship book, and others I have already returned to the library. I appreciate the suggestion of other books to read and have taken note to follow up with these as well.

Thank you all for your kindness and well wishes. I will check back to this forum often to see if there are any future comments on behalf of the 31 Independence.

Yours sincerely,
Ron

 

[K2MSmith]

In addition to Christian William’s excellent YouTube channel and books I would also recommend “Across Islands and Oceans” by James Baldwin . He sailed his first boat “Atom” around the world ( several times ) . His YouTube channel is also interesting. He has really taken that design to the next level .

 

[1911tex]

Suggestion: Go to several of your local marinas and post onto their bulletin boards as a volunteer crewman on some short sailing ventures or deliveries. That will surely get your feet wet (no pun) and some valuable experience under your belt. I know they will expect experience; however, it is worth the effort.

 

[nquigley]

Further to my earlier post, I wanted to share which other boats are on my consideration list: Westsail 32, Tayana 37, Valiant 40, Spencer 35, Wauquiez Gladiateur.

Thank you,
Ron

I'd suggest you watch some of the longer running (multi-season) YouTube channels by solo sailors and couples that are devoted to long distance cruising. Most of them have at least one episode devoted either to the pros and cons of their current boat's suitability to bluewater voyaging, or to their view of the features that are recommended for the task. These people interact with a lot of other cruisers, who are always comparing notes on what works and what doesn't. There are a LOT of variables you have to consider, which can be narrowed down by your own plans, budget, experience and research.

If you are going to sail solo, or with just one other most of the time, do not get a boat that's too big (even if it seems like an irresistible deal): if you're mostly solo, look at boats less than ~40'. The bigger the boat, the more complex and expensive to maintain will be its systems, and, ALL your repair/replacement costs will be MUCH more with every step up in size.

As someone else said, you might want to get a cheap starter boat first (~28-30' max; with an inboard engine) and start doing some coastal multi-day trips. If you get it for a good price and you fix it up a bit over your first year, you can probably recover your costs when you sell, and put those $$ toward your bluewater boat.
Good luck as you go up this learning curve.