30+ first boat

[Bryan29ny]

I haven’t made the purchase yet but there’s a mid 80’s 30+ locally. I am Asa 101 certified. Basic keel boat. Have a little sailing experience on a CSY 44 and Colgate 26. Been on an alberg 30 twice. I’m looking at my first sailboat. I will be singlehanding most of the time. Almost all the time. Should I shy away from the 30+. It has a roller furling and good running diesel. Self railing winches and everything leads back to the cockpit. I’m in the Carolinas. Will mostly be on the Intracoastal waterway (ICW) and down to Bahamas and Caribbean eventually. Locally I have two inlets that I can go out into the ocean to sail also. Would I not be happy and get frustrated trying to single hand the 30+? I don’t have a lot of sailing experience. I was looking at Cape Dory 25, 28 and possibly a 30. There’s a Sabre 28 locally also. I know the owner and it’s been well taken care of but this ericson is in great shape. I’ve never sailed a 30+ but I know they have a great reputation and I’ve been on one at the docks. Pretty boat inside. Thank you for any guidance.

 

[bigd14]

I am biased but yes, great first boat and I have no trouble singlehanding mine. Investing in a reliable autopilot system is important.

 

[Frank Langer]

We have owned our 1984 E30+ for 16 years and love that boat. I single hand most of the time, with my wife and sometimes adult kids and grandkids along occasionally. This boat is easy to single hand, and I don't use an auto pilot, just a brake on the wheel.
E30+ sails really well, both in light air and heavier winds with a reef in the mainsail and headsail furled a bit.
Frank

 

[G Kiba]

Personally, I think it is easier to single hand a tiller boat because you can steer with your legs and have both hands free. You don't always have to depend on an autopilot or wheel lock.

 

[SeaLore]

I’m a new E30+ owner and like her very much so far. Mine is a 1981 that had mostly original systems which I am updating as I learn more about her and my cruising desires. For singlehandling, I feel she is the right size for me and for the light wind Salish Sea summers will deliver more sailable days than a heavier boat.

 

[Christian Williams]

Sure, no problem with the size. Do consider which keel option your target boat has (full keel or shoal draft), if your part of the waterway is shallow.

And if you want opinions about the specific boat, post the for-sale link here.

(Also, get a sailing dinghy and wear it out. Cheap, Craig's list. You'll have fun, make instructional mistakes, and learn subtleties fast. A cruising boat teaches momentum, handling, engine repair, reefing and caution. A dinghy instills confidence...and the limits of confidence.)

 

[mjsouleman]

Discovery is a 1983 30+ with an autopilot and other than that is basically the same as you describe. I only sail and have years of experience on the Chesapeake and Narragansett Bays. She is easy and light to the touch in up to 16 knots of wind and then with reefed main and Jib to your comfort level.

As for sea worthiness, she brought me through a 40 knot N'Easter May 2021 as I sailed/motored the outer banks of Long Island.

 

[Bryan29ny]

Here’s a couple pictures. I think there’s some serious rot around the ports. Are the cabin walls around the windows/ports solid fiberglass with a thin laminate of wood on this inside. Is there a balsa or plywood core i between the fiberglass? Is it a major job fixing the rot and reversing them I have good carpentry and electrical skills No experience with fiberglass

 

[Frank Langer]

Yes, there has definitely been leaking, leasing to rot.
There is fibreglass there, with about 1/4" wood veneer, often glued to the fibreglass. It can be hard to remove the veneer, but not impossible, and new veneer can be installed once the ports are re bedded. If you have woodworking skills that should not be insurmountable.
Frank

 

[Bryan29ny]

Yes, there has definitely been leaking, leasing to rot.
There is fibreglass there, with about 1/4" wood veneer, often glued to the fibreglass. It can be hard to remove the veneer, but not impossible, and new veneer can be installed once the ports are re bedded. If you have woodworking skills that should not be insurmountable.
Frank

Ok great and thank you. That makes me feel better. I will be able to remove the bad veneer/wood. I’m sure it’s glued somehow and will be a pain removing but I will get it clean then reinstall the windows. replace them if they’re really foggy//scratched etc. What would you recommend I use for the ports. Butyl, 5200? And what would you use to adhere the new wood/veneer back to the fiberglass. Thank you

 

[Frank Langer]

Ok great and thank you. That makes me feel better. I will be able to remove the bad veneer/wood. I’m sure it’s glued somehow and will be a pain removing but I will get it clean then reinstall the windows. replace them if they’re really foggy//scratched etc. What would you recommend I use for the ports. Butyl, 5200? And what would you use to adhere the new wood/veneer back to the fiberglass. Thank you

I think any good construction adhesive from Home Depot or similar building supply store would work to glue the new veneer in place, but others may have a specific recommendation.
Do not use 5200 for the ports as it will make it difficult to remove if you ever have to rebed them. A good quality butyl would be my choice.
Frank

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Here’s a couple pictures. I think there’s some serious rot around the ports. Are the cabin walls around the windows/ports solid fiberglass with a thin laminate of wood on this inside. Is there a balsa or plywood core i between the fiberglass? Is it a major job fixing the rot and reversing them I have good carpentry and electrical skills No experience with fiberglass

Hi Bryan,
This is on our list of projects for this winter. These are the links I've saved so far, regarding this repair:

Replacing Fixed Windows Research [Master Thread]

In reference to a previous thread: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=9484&highlight=Motion+Windows I just sent emails to Motion Windows in Vancouver, WA and to USA Marine Windows in Florida to get some prices on fabricating replacement fixed windows for my E30+. I did...

ericsonyachts.org

Non opening portlight gasket

Anyone know where I can get gasket of this cross section? I'm not having much luck searching online. In some cases they don't show a cross section

ericsonyachts.org

Since you're a carpenter, you'll have no trouble adding fiberglass to your bag 'o tricks. Lot's of good tutorials around the web. Total Boat, West System, Boatworks Today, are good starts. I try to stress to my industrial design students it's important to understand the difference between an adhesive drying or curing, or the variations around that. And, especially if you're doing structural repairs, read a little on scarfing as it applies to reinforcing fibers.
Good luck!
Jeff

 

[Loren Beach]

Here’s a couple pictures. I think there’s some serious rot around the ports. Are the cabin walls around the windows/ports solid fiberglass with a thin laminate of wood on this inside. Is there a balsa or plywood core i between the fiberglass?

Some thoughts......
I have removed and replaced all of the port lights, fixed and opening, on our '88 boat. The cabin sides have a layer of teak-faced plywood inside bonded to the outside frp cabin side layer. There is no coring in the fiberglass, per se. The plywood is about 1/2" thick. It's a strong good quality product.

While cabin side leaks that lead to discoloration and rot is common to many makes of boat, the whole "ignoring them" practice somewhat baffles me. Unlike problems that arise over time that are not visible, this particular one is *highly* visible. My SWAG is that we all are somewhat intimidated by the process of removing and re-bedding a port light.

Back when the OEM sealant was failing and water could first be seen leaking/dripping in around the frame, a reasonably competent ship wright could have done the dismount and re-sealing process in about one hour per port, two hours max. Or the owner could have spent a half day on the initial port, and then invested about a couple of hours on each of the remaining ones... and been done with that for another decade. And put about $100. minimum back in his or her pocket, per port.

That all said, with such conviction, I wish that I had removed and re-bedded the ports on our prior boat after a decade. They were not leaking inside yet, but with 20/20 hindsight I see where they would have, soon. We moved up to a larger "final" boat instead.
So, mea culpa.

Persevere. You'll figure it out.

 

[Christian Williams]

E32-3 - Portlights and Veneer

The opening ports on Thelonious were by Bomar. They were mechanically sound, but the lenses looked like Lebowski had dropped a bowling ball on them. In addition to cracks and crazes, they were fogged. Bomar lenses, unfortunately, cannot be...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Bryan29ny]

The new owner wants me to talk to the previous owner who is her father to get better answers to these questions. Here’s the questions I have. Is there any more I could ask that would help me do a thorough pre inspection before I have a survey conducted. Thank you.

What keel does it have. Is it the shoal draft at 4’ or the deeper draft at 5’8”

What make, model and year diesel does it have and how many hours on the motor. Is it in good running order

When was the last bottom and topside paint job

Any soft spots on deck or in the cockpit floor

What condition are the sails in. Are they all original and how many

Is the standing rigging and chainplates original.

Is the Running rigging original

Is the mast step original and in good shape or has it been upgraded to aluminum

What does the boat have for electronics and are they in working order. Speed, depth and wind.

Have the keel bolts been inspected/tightened or replaced

Have you had the boat out of the water and had the keel to hull joint looked at/inspected.

What kind of stove does it have. pressurized alcohol or Propane and Is it in working order.

How old are the batteries and how many.

Are the Fuel and water tanks original and have they ever been cleaned

Did you have a survey and if so how long ago and can I see it.

 

[Frank Langer]

Also, has it ever been run aground or been hit by another boat or otherwise damaged? What repairs were done, and by whom? Are receipts available?
Frank

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Good list.
The other possibility for stove would be CNG, which is what we got. Harder to find refills, more expensive. Safer in some ways, less so in others. Though I'm not sure whether that was an option for the 30+.
You might ask whether it was raced. That's harder on a boat.
If you get as far as a survey, I'd recommend paying the extra (about $125 in our case) to get the engine oil tested.

 

[Bryan29ny]

Talked to the owners father who knows more about the boat. He said they did run aground once and sea tow pulled them off. He said it’s the original 3 cyl universal diesel and runs great but he has no idea of the hours. Has a double fuel filter which he changed when needed. He said he had the exhaust replaced and one glow plug with OEM parts before he knew he could get Kubota parts. He had a survey done around 8 years ago when he purchased the boat. He had the keel joint resealed and bottom painted while he worked it. He had keel bolts inspected and they were fine. It has an alcohol stove. Windows are leaking which I already know and he said they are foggy which I figured they would be. All sails are original. He had a person that cleans hull for him but it’s been awhile since last bottom paint so it will need to be done within a year or two max. Hull is in excellent condition. Moisture was higher then normal on deck around mast but not to the point were the surveyor said it needed to be replaced. It has the 5’8” keel which I wish it didn’t have. Standing rigging and chainplates are all original. Running rigging is in good shape. He didn’t change any of the running rigging. Has a good auto Piotr, he had water and fuel tanks drained and cleaned while he owned it. The 5’8”
Draft isn’t the ideal boat for me on the Intracoastal waterway on the east coast. Not sure about moving forward. People go up and down the ICW with 6’ draft everyday but it’s not ideal. He thinks the boat is a 1980. His daughter who has owned the boat for the last 4 years and is selling it has it listed as an 86. I don’t think she knows much about it. So I’m assuming not much was done to it while she owned it.

 

[Loren Beach]

The price will reflect it, but plan on replacing the standing rigging and lifelines in the first year. Also re-bed all of the deck fittings and hope that the moisture levels in the deck coring are not too high. If it has a pressure alcohol cooker or range, learn how to use it.
If the prior owner had the keel dropped and re-bedded that's a big plus.

 

[Christian Williams]

At a glance you're in for new sails, probably running and standing rigging, some leak repair and replacement of lenses in hatches. And cushions, more than a dozen, if they are originals. All long term projects all of us face or faced on these 80's boats.

Aside from your awareness of the keel, I'd say the decision depends on how much work you intend to do, and whether looking forward to such projects.

And of course the price. Which in fact matters less than everything else. Happy owners of vintage cruising boats pour money in and enjoy it. I don't know why, but it seems a widespread phenom.

Bear in mind that a bargain$15K boat probably has few improvements.

The same model selling for $25K probably has 20K in improvements. And is therefore the real bargain.