Newbie questions about an Ericson 34 [and Shipping a Boat by Truck]

[Filkee]

N.A.'s summary is very useful, although it implies immediate bankruptcy. Many of the expenses are spread out over time, during which a new owner can decide with leisure whether he needs a $2000 chart plotter (Mine was $700), radar, and so on. Sails vary greatly in price and cheap ones work. No doubt there are cases in which the for-sale boat must be moved instantly, but that's not usually the case with a broker or even a private owner. Something can be worked out.

There's something else that I find important in buying a boat. Great mental anguish is expended on the "fair" price, which is always a negotiation, and during which sailboat buyers are consumed with the fear of being cheated, or of paying too much, or of making some gross mistake that will haunt them forever.

Nah. If you want the boat, pay the seller what he asks minus the percentage he expects. A 50K boat, you offer 45K, he counters at $47,500. Buy it.

Making a big deal of a few thousand makes no sense to me. It's peanuts down the ownership road, and great concern may mean you can't really afford the unpredicted outlays ahead.

The price of the boat is just the initiation fee.

 

[Christian Williams]

I was unable to keep myself from looking through the Pink Panther photos again. I understand Bert has a visit scheduled.

I can't find anything not to like quite a lot. Looks like the current or former owner paid a lot of attention, which is a critical factor. The custom paint job is an indication, and all the canvas covers. Such covers are expensive and require a dutiful attitude to keep them on. The saloon and interior seem pristine, which speaks worlds. That is the result of care and attention to detail. The fact that the boat was made clean and presentable for the photo shoot also indicates a heads-up owner.

Some things to look for in this case: Are the hatches crazed? Must the sails be replaced immediately? Is the bottom OK (blisters, keel damage--it probably is OK). All those covers--are they at end of life?

We see a lot of junk in listings and the sense of other posters seems positive, which isn't all that common.

The bulwarks/deck joint is nonstandard, as Loren points out, and that would have to meet the approval of the eye.

The pink stripe, well, it's kinda Easter-egg to me, but could be painted gray at the next haul-out.

The 34 seems a great choice for somebody drawn to the Ericson line. Awaiting the next hands-on visitor report. Photos can mislead.

 

[bertboyer]

I was unable to keep myself from looking through the Pink Panther photos again. I understand Bert has a visit scheduled.

I can't find anything not to like quite a lot. Looks like the current or former owner paid a lot of attention, which is a critical factor. The custom paint job is an indication, and all the canvas covers. Such covers are expensive and require a dutiful attitude to keep them on. The saloon and interior seem pristine, which speaks worlds. That is the result of care and attention to detail. The fact that the boat was made clean and presentable for the photo shoot also indicates a heads-up owner.

Some things to look for in this case: Are the hatches crazed? Must the sails be replaced immediately? Is the bottom OK (blisters, keel damage--it probably is OK). All those covers--are they at end of life?

We see a lot of junk in listings and the sense of other posters seem positive, which isn't all that common.

The bulwarks/deck joint is nonstandard, as Loren points out, and that would have to meet the approval of the eye.

The pink stripe, well, it's kinda Easter-egg to me, but could be easily painted gray at the next haul-out.

The 34 seems a great choice for somebody drawn to the Ericson line. Awaiting the next hands-on visitor report. Photos can mislead.

Indeed. I have an appointment March 25 and I'll report back with photos of anything that looks concerning.

Meanwhile, I am reading Don Casey's book on inspecting an aging boat to learn what I can about what to look for in a first visit. I'll add inspection for crazed hatches and other things Christian and other members have pointed out to me, such as asking to see the sails hoisted, asking to hear the engine start from cold, and possibly asking to see maintenance invoices if they say the boat had recent upgrades.

Thanks so much for everyone's support and helpful comments!

...and I agree WRT the pink stripe!

 

[nquigley]

I think that the main goal of your first inspection will be to come away with either an overall positive or negative 'feeling' of whether or not the package as presented is a good fit for you (budget, location, overall condition and features, and especially the layout and how you'd like to use the boat).
Look for any things you'd consider as show-stoppers, and leave the technical deep-dive inspection into critical systems and structural issues to a certified surveyor, if you come away positive and want to go to the next step
Good luck on the 25th. We all look forward to your report.

 

[bertboyer]

All, Just for comparison, this E34 looks pretty nice to me. Especially low engine hours

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1990-ericson-34-9244926/

I asked for more details on the electronics and sails.

Do any of you have a sense for shipping costs/mile. Maybe this would be a deal breaker for me as I live in Portland, but some of the California boats seem much more favorably priced and I have no issue flying down for something that looks nice.

Thanks!
Bert

 

[Loren Beach]

Do any of you have a sense for shipping costs/mile. Maybe this would be a deal breaker for me as I live in Portland, but some of the California boats seem much more favorably priced and I have no issue flying down for something that looks nice

Remember that the boats living down south in warmer salt water will have more corrosion and more UV issues than boats kept in colder salt waters like in the Sea-Tac area, or better yet a freshwater boat in the Columbia River.
Just one example: Up here it is more common for a standing rig to be replaced at 20 years rather than ten for the boats down in SoCal or Florida. Everything electrical, from instruments to wiring, is more affected by corrosive salt air, too.
Basically you get what you pay for. I had our present boat trucked up here from Alameda (as a fixer upper) and the trucking cost in today's dollars will be a real factor to consider.

 

[Pete the Cat]

All, Just for comparison, this E34 looks pretty nice to me. Especially low engine hours

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1990-ericson-34-9244926/

I asked for more details on the electronics and sails.

Do any of you have a sense for shipping costs/mile. Maybe this would be a deal breaker for me as I live in Portland, but some of the California boats seem much more favorably priced and I have no issue flying down for something that looks nice.

Thanks!
Bert

And how about a picture of the engine? And the basic electronics. This looks like a marina queen at first glance. I would caution against using low engine hours as a criteria. The hour meters fail and folks sometimes take their time to replace them. The engine sitting in a marina is not necessarily healthy for a diesel and if the engine was used for very short periods without going to full temp, it could be a mess in 600 hours.

 

[Pete the Cat]

All, Just for comparison, this E34 looks pretty nice to me. Especially low engine hours

https://www.yachtworld.com/yacht/1990-ericson-34-9244926/

I asked for more details on the electronics and sails.

Do any of you have a sense for shipping costs/mile. Maybe this would be a deal breaker for me as I live in Portland, but some of the California boats seem much more favorably priced and I have no issue flying down for something that looks nice.

Thanks!
Bert

A lot of the cost is in boat yard hauling and prepping for transport (derig/rerig)and then reassembling the boat on arrival. You are going to need more than cost/mile to get a good idea of transportation costs.

 

[bertboyer]

Helpful comments as usual. Thank you!

Clearly I am experiencing Newbie excitement....

 

[Filkee]

I considered boats further afield but as a newbie myself, getting acquainted with a local boat was the right move. I considered boats in CT and NJ but the prospect of navigating out of the Sound and up the Hudson absolutely terrified me. I think I could do it now with a friend but being able to drive 30 minutes and get to know my boat while it was a hot mess and still on the hard was the right way in. Be brave but remember it is a big step.

 

[Filkee]

And do embrace and enjoy the excitement. It comes back in fits and starts over the years but there’s nothing like stalking your first boat. I remember shutting down my phone so the family wouldn’t know that I was lurking near that plastic-wrapped hull at the Champlain Marina.

 

[bgary]

Do any of you have a sense for shipping costs/mile.

In my (one) experience moving a boat up from California, it is less about the mileage and more about the timing - if they can chain together a number of jobs, and in doing so avoid any empty mileage, the cost is lower. The estimate to get a boat from Flathead Lake (Montana) to western Washington was ~10k, because they had no other business on either leg of the trip. Conversely, the cost to get a boat up to Washington from the LA area was well under half of that, despite it being more than twice the distance.

My learnings from the boat-hauling experience here: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/boat-haulers-a-long-strange-trip.354/

And, if interested, my prep saga here. I did all my own prep, the only things I used the boatyard for were to pull the rig, and later to pull the boat to load it on the truck. The boatyard's estimate to do the prep was 2 people for 4 days which ended up being a bigger labor cost and the only thing it cost *me* to do it was a set of airline tickets.

E32-3 - From new keys to boat-on-a-truck, in three days (part 1 of 5? looooooong)

While I worked on a fair number of just-off-the-truck boats, Way Back When, I had absolutely no experience in preparing a boat to go *onto* a truck when I started this journey. I thought I'd share what I learned, here, in case it benefits someone...

ericsonyachts.org

Bruce

 

[Loren Beach]

If it helps, our trucker's contact info is in a post under this blog entry.

O34 - More Pix of the haulout

Adding some pix of the arrival and blocking. The mast is stored outside and is slated for a cleaning and waxing. Also a new combo deck/steaming light. The anchor light fixture is an early LED device and the UV has affected the lens, so it may get...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Christian Williams]

Easier navigation to Bruce's useful Blog series:

From new keys to boat-on-a-truck:
part 1 of 5: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...a-truck-in-three-days-(part-1-of-5-looooooong)
part 2 of 5: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...to-boat-on-a-truck-in-three-days-(part-2-of-5-)
part 3 of 5: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...to-boat-on-a-truck-in-three-days-(part-3-of-5-)
part 4 of 5: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...to-boat-on-a-truck-in-three-days-(part-4-of-5-)
part 5 of 5: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...-a-truck-in-three-days-(part-5-the-end-really-)

 

[bertboyer]

Thanks Bruce and Christian. I hope others find this as useful as me!

 

[Bobby Steele]

We have a 34-2 from 1989. We love it. One thing, it handles very easily; and I was even told that by a friend who’s a very skilled sailor after he moved it for us once.

 

[HerbertFriedman]

We bought our 1987 E34 ten years ago and love it. But we had a problem with water intrusion around the starboard side of the forward hatch, and the resulting soft spot. The owner was honest to point out this problem but said that the boat yard recommended to leave the problem alone since the mast was keel stepped, they said that the deck in that spot was not structural.

Bad advice. The boat yard recommended they remove the top skin, remove the wet balsa core, add new core material and apply a new top fiberglass skin. But the new top skin would not match the "checked" pattern of the original deck to the repair would be very obvious. Trying to match the deck pattern was much more complicated. Repairing the damage from inside the boat was complicated because of the headliner that would have to be replaced.

I managed to remove the bars at the mast and drill two inch hole in the deck where one of the bars was, and was able to remove all the wet balsa through the hole. Then I used a heater to dry out the core, took a few days. Then I forced epoxy into the space using a caulking gun, the yard recommended an epoxy that produced very little heat, a critical step. Problem solved but I suggest a careful inspection of the deck area especially around the penetrations.

 

[bertboyer]

We bought our 1987 E34 ten years ago and love it. But we had a problem with water intrusion around the starboard side of the forward hatch, and the resulting soft spot. The owner was honest to point out this problem but said that the boat yard recommended to leave the problem alone since the mast was keel stepped, they said that the deck in that spot was not structural.

Bad advice. The boat yard recommended they remove the top skin, remove the wet balsa core, add new core material and apply a new top fiberglass skin. But the new top skin would not match the "checked" pattern of the original deck to the repair would be very obvious. Trying to match the deck pattern was much more complicated. Repairing the damage from inside the boat was complicated because of the headliner that would have to be replaced.

I managed to remove the bars at the mast and drill two inch hole in the deck where one of the bars was, and was able to remove all the wet balsa through the hole. Then I used a heater to dry out the core, took a few days. Then I forced epoxy into the space using a caulking gun, the yard recommended an epoxy that produced very little heat, a critical step. Problem solved but I suggest a careful inspection of the deck area especially around the penetrations.

Thank you Herbert. I was planning on a marine survey if we like the boat enough to proceed. I would hope that the marine surveyor would pick something like this up.

 

[dhill]

The video from our trucking adventure... only 52 miles. Trucking cost was about $800. In my case, the mast had to be unstepped and restepped, which added about another $700-800. If the tape is going to be on for more than a few hours, I recommend using delicate surface painters tape.

Good luck with your search!
Dave

 

[N.A.]

FWIW, if I was planning to sail in the PNW, I'd probably rather have a PNW boat. My reasoning is that things that are very nice to have vary by region.

For instance
- Dodger: for me, a dodger is nice to have but not a big deal. In the PNW I can't imagine not having one (and one in good condition).
Heater: Similarly, down here nobody has, or needs, a diesel heater... but in the PNW I can't imagine sailing in the winter (which I have done up there enough to know) without one.
- Deck/hatch/etc leaks: CA boats may also have a lot more unaddressed leaks than PNW boats because... it doesn't rain that much down here (especially when people are actually ON the boats
- Windlass: An anchor windlass is optional for me; I anchor seldom if ever. In the PNW, cruising is much more accessible, and the more you anchor the more you really want that windlass I am sure. I can;t imagine anchoring every day for a week or two without a windlass.
- Head holding tank: in the PNW, if you are cruising, you'll need that a lot. In the bay area, very little, so often they/the head will not be well maintained (I suspect that is also true in SoCal, but not sure -- basically, anywhere people are day sailing rather than cruising will be more likely to have low head use/maintenance.)
- A similar argument holds for engines: a boat that has been cruised probably has a well set-up and maintained engine (especially in the PNW, where often there is little wind.) Down here, at least in the bay area, those engines are used for 15 minutes at each end of a trip as you go in and out of a marina to the almost-always-plentiful wind. Result: it's less worrisome if you think it might fail (a number of people (those that go out regularly) on my dock sail back in, for sure -- I have asked -- in some cases so they can to keep their skills up in case the engine fails, since it... apparently it does periodically.)
- Rigging gets washed with fresh water in the PNW all the time; down here you see a lot more rust than I tended to see up there.

With a PNW boat, a lot of this may already be sorted -- windlass added, or dodger there and in good shape, or a diesel heater installed, etc. Installation of half this stuff costs more then the items -- having it already done is a huge benefit even if you decide to (e.g.) change to new radar unit on that stern-post.)

Add the above to the extra UV damage, etc. that others mentioned, and then subtract more leakage/possible mildew/whatever else is more likely in the PNW. Then decide whether trucking a boat makes sense. Aside: they have to take the mast down to truck... if you do ship the boat, that is probably the time to re-do the mast wiring, masthead instruments (hmm... going to NMEA 2000? Now you are committing to replacing literally all instruments on the boat...) and lights (include steaming light/deck lights), VHF coax and new antenna, add any spinnaker halyard crane you decided you needed, mast-mounted radar pr reflector, as well as re-do the standing rigging. Despite what I've seen in other forum posts here, in the bay area numbers I've heard for that stuff (not even including the radar) are around $10k+, a decent fraction of which is pulling the mast. Might as well do it when you already pulled the thing...