Typical new boat owner head/toilet questions

[RedXII]

Hey guys, my new to me 1971 E27 is in the water again for our first full season together.

During a nice sail, I decided to let my lady friend use my questionable head. After inspecting the system some and deciding to try and finally open the thruhull and flush it properly, water flowed in! Wonderful, she flushes!

However, now I’m getting some slight back flow and the pump handle is really hard to pump. The hoses going to the holding tank are also sucked closed.
I fixed the vent issue I was having when I was on the hard (the thruhull on the port sheer stripe was totally clogged with debris) but ever since I did this little trick switching the valve in the head to the open position and getting water to flow it’s been problematic I have a rebuild kit for it, but I’m trying to postpone rebuilding it until the season is over. Liquid is also coming through where the pump handle meets the body of the head.
Is my vent clogged again?

 

[RedXII]

Also opening the seacock seems to alleviate pressure but it’s still not pumping into the holding tank much. Only seems to work when the red switch is set to “pump dry”. The vent hose also isn’t depressurized at all.

 

[Loren Beach]

After changing our standard-size bowl to their optional "household size bowl, AND changing out the old pump assembly to avoid dealing with a rebuild kit, I recently got our Raritan head to work normally again. I had to trouble shoot a leak around the part where the Joker Valve is clamped into place. Also... he main Y-valve inside the head cabinet decided to leak during testing (with only river water, lucky me), so I replaced that valve, located in a severely access-limited space. Some graduate-level swearing was involved, and quite a collection of tools. We are just back from a night out on our boat, after a first sail for the season a couple of weeks ago.

IF.... I were to work on the head again... I would buy a complete new one and just install it. What with buying separate parts of the whole assembly, the cost would have been about the same but the aggravation would have been considerably less.
i.e. I have no direct answer for your plight, but I do when we had just taken delivery of our used boat in 1994, and the Admiral took a long look at the head that had seen three years of use as a sailing club boat...... and said to just buy a new one! Years later, and a lot of miles down the (watery) road, after a lot of time, or in your situation dealing with a questionable head, it's good to just totally start over.

And, file under "unrequested advice" : be careful about forcing apart any old hose-clamped fittings. I used too much force on a 1.5" hose end, and later a friend advised me to really heat up the hose end with a 'heat gun' and the softened hose would slide right off. Oh well - live n learn.

I did buy and use some new 1.5" "Saniflex"hose , like this link: https://defender.com/en_us/raritan-...PEAQYAiABEgKEMfD_BwE#76=14&493=7787&615=36068

Good stuff, and it does bend well w/o kinking.

 

[Christian Williams]

(typed simultaneously with Loren. In my case to not have to watch "And Just LIke that...", the sequel to "Sex and the City.")

some slight back flow

Often this means the joker valve needs replacement. "Easy."

hoses going to the holding tank are also sucked closed

If the hoses aren;t round anymore, they need to be changed.

Liquid is also coming through where the pump handle meets the body of the head.

Hmmm. Rebuild kit, yeah.

Old heads often need a lot of work to get functioning again, or to be replaced.

But you know, the valves are mysterious, and figuring out just how your setup works may take a while. If you provide a diagram of the water routes and valves somebody here can probably analyze it.

 

[Loren Beach]

But you know, the valves are mysterious, and figuring out just how your setup works may take a while. If you provide a diagram of the water routes and valves somebody here can probably analyze it.

We will try to help/advise, if you can diagram "what now goes where" in your head/holding tank/thru hull/deck pump out... etc. system.
Use your computer drawing app or just make a sketch on paper and scan it it.

 

[Bolo]

Some words of advice to a new used boat owner. Most of us have been where you are now, facing head problems on a newly obtained used boat, with the keyword being “used”. When I purchased my used E32-3 years ago the head was a disaster. In the end I replaced all of the hoses, holding tank and eliminated hoses going to the overboard pump out seacocks since pumping overboard isn’t allowed on the Chesapeake Bay. I could have just locked the valves but the hoses there had to go too so removing them gave me much more room to work in.

Much later I rebuilt the original Raritan pump on the old head several times and changed out the joker valves many times but in the end rebuilding just wasn’t working so last year I replaced the head with a new Jabsco that has the twist and pump feature and after that all was right with my world again.Yes, I still have to change out joker valves now and then but that’s life. Do yourself a favor….replace all the hoses and the head with a new pump. You may get away with replacing the holding tank but you know that as soon as you remove the old hoses and look under the tank and check out the fittings going in too. Also it’s a good time to try and rinse out the inside of the tank too if you decide not to replace it. In the end you’ll be a little poorer but enriched with the satisfaction of having a waste system that works. It’s a dirty job but someone has got to do it and that someone is you, unless you want to pay someone gobs of $$$, which they’ll trying deserve to do the dirty deed for you.

 

[Shankara]

Game changer: https://airheadtoilet.com/

 

[Pete the Cat]

I see that you have a Headmate. I rebuilt mine at least three times in the 30 years I owned it. It never didn't leak somewhere, no matter how fastidious I was the ridiculously unhelpful diagrams that come with the head rebuild kit. If you do rebuild it (and you need new hoses (neither intake nor output hoses are of head quality in your pictures). The rebuild kit for that head costs nearly as much as an entire cheap replacement head. I bought a complete new head for just a trifle more than rebuilding this one. The new one is a much simpler design in function, does not leak and has been flawless for the last season-the first in 30 years without water dripping somewhere from the head. My guess is that you drew some debris into the intake in the flushing process (common problem) and this started this--but the Headmate has a very complicated, spring loaded valve system in the pump that must be assembled perfectly to function and the gasket around the handle will start to leak no matter what you do in a year or two. The construction of the headmate is delicate: you will note that some brilliant engineer thought it fine to used sheet metal screws to secure the high pressure pump housing and gasket. My advice is to take this head to the nearest dumpster. I believe the company is no longer making this head and the repair kit. For that we can be thankful.

 

[RedXII]

I see that you have a Headmate. I rebuilt mine at least three times in the 30 years I owned it. It never didn't leak somewhere, no matter how fastidious I was the ridiculously unhelpful diagrams that come with the head rebuild kit. If you do rebuild it (and you need new hoses (neither intake nor output hoses are of head quality in your pictures). The rebuild kit for that head costs nearly as much as an entire cheap replacement head. I bought a complete new head for just a trifle more than rebuilding this one. The new one is a much simpler design in function, does not leak and has been flawless for the last season-the first in 30 years without water dripping somewhere from the head. My guess is that you drew some debris into the intake in the flushing process (common problem) and this started this--but the Headmate has a very complicated, spring loaded valve system in the pump that must be assembled perfectly to function and the gasket around the handle will start to leak no matter what you do in a year or two. The construction of the headmate is delicate: you will note that some brilliant engineer thought it fine to used sheet metal screws to secure the high pressure pump housing and gasket. My advice is to take this head to the nearest dumpster. I believe the company is no longer making this head and the repair kit. For that we can be thankful.

I think full head replacement is really the best move. I appreciate your insight.

 

[RedXII]

(typed simultaneously with Loren. In my case to not have to watch "And Just LIke that...", the sequel to "Sex and the City.")

some slight back flow

Often this means the joker valve needs replacement. "Easy."

hoses going to the holding tank are also sucked closed

If the hoses aren;t round anymore, they need to be changed.

Liquid is also coming through where the pump handle meets the body of the head.

Hmmm. Rebuild kit, yeah.

Old heads often need a lot of work to get functioning again, or to be replaced.

But you know, the valves are mysterious, and figuring out just how your setup works may take a while. If you provide a diagram of the water routes and valves somebody here can probably analyze it.

I think it’s a safe bet that every aspect of this system is old and not in great working order so I think replacing the whole thing is the best move.

 

[Gaviate]

Game changer:

This is where I'm headed with Emgee. Overboard discharge is illegal in All of the Great Lakes and the whole set up on board at present is antiquated. System is empty and until I get things changed, I'm just using liners to dispose of with trash. As of now I never have to struggle with a pump out service, or faulty hoses and valves...switching to composting system will keep it that way is my theory.

 

[Filkee]

Piling on with my own issues. I have a jabsco. I changed out the pump assembly a few years ago and things got better. Last year I started getting back flow way too soon after changing the joker. Changed the joker again this spring and still some backflow and new intermittent resistance when pumping. I think my vent hose may be clogged but I’m not sure what the best way to get at it would be without creating the kind of show that none of us want to see on July 4 weekend. Any safety tips?

 

[Loren Beach]

I think my vent hose may be clogged but I’m not sure what the best way to get at it would be without creating the kind of show that none of us want to see on July 4 weekend. Any safety tips?

When I tackled the changeout of all of the 1988 hoses in our head/valve/holding tank/pumpout factory system...
It was soon apparent the old waste from before we acquired the boat was present in some of the hose low points. I was wrapping heavy plastic around the end of each hose connection as I removed it. Quite a bit of tape around the plastic and I was using vinyl gloves.
It became obvious real soon that this was a chore I would not want to do twice. (!) I ended up reformatting quite a bit of the old hose routing and also installing good quality modern hoses and some solid elbows where EY had over-bent parts of their hose runs.
It's now been about 15 years and there is still no odor in those areas. When it was all emptied out, I cleaned the hull with bleach and soap and warm water. "Deferred Maintenance" can lead to unpleasant work!

When you put the whole "waste management system" all back together with new hoses, holding tank, valves, and (in our case) a new Raritan head you can at least be sure of a lengthly odor-free future, however.
Our vent hose was OK, but the chrome/zamak vent fitting on the transom with its invisible clogged screen did also have to be replaced.

My guess is that NO one (!) likes this part of boat maintenance. We'd all rather talk about the best anchor or how to reef the main...!

 

[Filkee]

When I tackled the changeout of all of the 1988 hoses in our head/valve/holding tank/pumpout factory system...
It was soon apparent the old waste from before we acquired the boat was present in some of the hose low points. I was wrapping heavy plastic around the end of each hose connection as I removed it. Quite a bit of tape around the plastic and I was using vinyl gloves.
It became obvious real soon that this was a chore I would not want to do twice. (!) I ended up reformatting quite a bit of the old hose routing and also installing good quality modern hoses and some solid elbows where EY had over-bent parts of their hose runs.
It's now been about 15 years and there is still no odor in those areas. When it was all emptied out, I cleaned the hull with bleach and soap and warm water. "Deferred Maintenance" can lead to unpleasant work!

When you put the whole "waste management system" all back together with new hoses, holding tank, valves, and (in our case) a new Raritan head you can at least be sure of a lengthly odor-free future, however.
Our vent hose was OK, but the chrome/zamak vent fitting on the transom with its invisible clogged screen did also have to be replaced.

My guess is that NO one (!) likes this part of boat maintenance. We'd all rather talk about the best anchor or how to reef the main...!

I’m betting the screen is the culprit for my current woes. I may have to actually come in to the dock to deal with it. That means taking out lines and fenders and everything.

 

[peaman]

I recently replaced all of the head hoses in my 32-3. If you think the vent hose may be blocked, it should be pretty easy to address if it is arranged like mine. The tank end of the hose should be readily accessed at the top of the holding tank. The vent end was concealed within removable cabinetry at the forward end of the cabinet outboard of the head. If the vent hose was carelessly installed, or of cheap material, it could be pinched at the vent outlet end.

 

[Christian Williams]

I may have to actually come in to the dock to deal with it. That means taking out lines and fenders and everything.

There are people you can hire for things like that.

I recall that on the 32-3 when somebody overfilled the holding tank such that a brown stream appeared under the vent on the topsides, I was able to take off the exterior fitting and put a hose on to irrigate and cleanse the airway. It was embarrassing, but it worked.

 

[Filkee]

I may have to actually come in to the dock to deal with it. That means taking out lines and fenders and everything.

There are people you can hire for things like that.

I recall that on the 32-3 when somebody overfilled the holding tank such that a brown stream appeared under the vent on the topsides, I was able to take off the exterior fitting and put a hose on to irrigate and cleanse the airway. It was embarrassing, but it worked.

I’m thinking the embarrassing exterior approach will be my first move.

 

[Sean Engle]

When I purchased my 86' E35-3, ripping out the entire sanitation system and replacing it was the first project. Then scrubbing out the bilge, the lockers and associated spaces and painting them with BilgeKoat was the next project. Between the two, the smell in the boat dropped to nearly zero.

 

[dxulander]

Some words of advice to a new used boat owner. Most of us have been where you are now, facing head problems on a newly obtained used boat, with the keyword being “used”. When I purchased my used E32-3 years ago the head was a disaster. In the end I replaced all of the hoses, holding tank and eliminated hoses going to the overboard pump out seacocks since pumping overboard isn’t allowed on the Chesapeake Bay. I could have just locked the valves but the hoses there had to go too so removing them gave me much more room to work in.

Much later I rebuilt the original Raritan pump on the old head several times and changed out the joker valves many times but in the end rebuilding just wasn’t working so last year I replaced the head with a new Jabsco that has the twist and pump feature and after that all was right with my world again.Yes, I still have to change out joker valves now and then but that’s life. Do yourself a favor….replace all the hoses and the head with a new pump. You may get away with replacing the holding tank but you know that as soon as you remove the old hoses and look under the tank and check out the fittings going in too. Also it’s a good time to try and rinse out the inside of the tank too if you decide not to replace it. In the end you’ll be a little poorer but enriched with the satisfaction of having a waste system that works. It’s a dirty job but someone has got to do it and that someone is you, unless you want to pay someone gobs of $$$, which they’ll trying deserve to do the dirty deed for you.

View attachment 47482

Going through same process of ripping out old Raritan PHII and replace it w/ a Jabsco Twist n Lock. The base bolt patterns are different, did you have to drill new bolts into the fiberglass to fit the new toilet, aka how did you account for the change in mounting position? Thanks.

 

[Loren Beach]

The last time I installed a new head, the bolt pattern was just different enough that I did have to fill the old holes with thickened epoxy and drill new holes for the lag bolts for the new head. The difficult part was getting the epoxy to stay in the old hole and not drip/sag thru. Luckily EY put a piece of plywood under that FRP base and there was enough thickness there. I finally pushed a little foam "plug" carefully down to the bottom of the hole(s), and then could pour in a bit of epoxy to seal it. Then, fill it up to the top.
Apropos of Whatever, it's nice to hear that the formerly-despised Jabsco head is now more competitive with the higher quality Raritan PH2.
Best of luck in this project. It's pretty safe to say that no owner enjoys this part of boat ownership one bit! It's just something we gotta do.