Self-Tailing Winch Jaws Adjustment

[Christian Williams]

Older self-tailing winches often seem to lose their hold on the line, resulting in a return to the two-handed approach.

Thanks to a Barient diagram provided by Bruce Gary in this thread, I was able to remove a spacer and return the jaws to a useful grip on the line.

This is a Barient 23, and I don't know that all Barients have a spacer plate that allows adjustment. It's also possible that some ST winch jaws just won't work well with modern small-diameter line, or line that is very stiff, as Dyneema can be.

The spacer plate is located under the jaws.

x

It comes out easily, and doesn't require disassembly of the gears.

Many of us have noticed the inaccuracy of Barient exploded diagrams, in which the model number of the winch in hand simply doesn't match the manual so denoted. Even so, it may be worthwhile to examine a non-grasping ST winch, on the odds that it contains a spacer plate expressly designed for smaller diameter lines.

Video sequence, Spring 2024:

Indexed as a Thelonious Blog entry.

 

[Nick J]

Well, now I know what I'm going to be doing this week. I thought my new lines turned my winch into a standard winch. I can't wait to see if we get the same results and I can use self tailing again! Thanks Bruce and Christian!

 

[Nick J]

Like I said, I know what I'll be doing this week... Turns out, mine is a barient 19. I like this one a lot better than the 27 primaries. You can remove the whole assembly without removing the base from the boat:



I even found the same shim and it seems to do the trick:



I did run into a small problem though. One of the spring bolts sheered or was sheered. I've never seen a bolt do this before. It's still connected.




It looks like it was a problem in the past since there's 4 different bolt, spring, and spacer combinations.



Doors anyone have a source for replacement bolts?

 

[Nick J]

Well... The more I'm looking at this, the more it's looking like this which isn't in great shape. Other than the tailer slipping, it was working great, but there's more corrosion than I was expecting.

 

[Christian Williams]

McMaster-Carr has a vast catalog of shoulder screws, and maybe they have the right ones. They have compression springs, too.

 

[Nick J]

I got it all back together this afternoon. I sent an email to https://www.arco-winches.com/ requesting a quote for some replacement parts and received a prompt response. Replacement jaws were a little more expensive than I wanted to put into this winch with the corrosion on the drum, but it's nice to know you can still get parts for these winches. The final order was for 4 shoulder bolts and springs, and a set of 4 pawls and 8 springs. All the pawls and springs were in good shape, but I thought it would be a good idea to add to an order shipping from Australia. I assembled the winch with the old screws and springs to have a working winch and test the tailer without the spacer. Everything works as advertised! Thanks Bruce and Christian!

One note of caution to others cleaning a Barient 19, make sure you pay attention to the assembly drawing. I spent an extra hour trying to figure out why the winch was binding only to find out I put the bushing in the wrong position. I thought it went above the bearing, but this resulted in the drum sitting about 1/8" too high and not providing a surface for the stripping arm to seat:

Here's the wrong setup:


This resulted in the should screws touching the bottom of the stripping arm and the winch binding. I took the bushing off, installed the drum and put the bushing in the corect order:


Here's what it looks like when everything's in the correct order and the spacer Bruce and Christian noted above is removed:



It grabs my 10mm main halyard much better:




I should receive the correct shoulder screws from Arco Winches in a week or two then we'll be good to go.

 

[Nick J]

I was looking at the assembly drawing again (https://l-36.com/winches_pages.php?winch=mod19.htm) and noticed the plate is called a screw stop plate on the barient 19. Kind of strange when the shoulder screws are self bottoming. I wonder what screws the plate is stopping or if it is just a shim and it's mislabeled.

 

[Nick J]

Follow up on my damaged shoulder bolts. The package arrived from Arco right before a week long trip. For $83 + shipping, I received 4 screws, 4 springs, and 4 brass (I'm guessing) spacers. They fit perfectly, but I'm wondering if I could have sourced these parts and saved a bit. I wasn't able to find an exact fit on McMaster Carr, maybe I missed something. I'll try to remember to measure the original shoulder bolt next time I'm on the boat.

comparison of bolts and springs:
Top Left - Original shoulder bolt
Top middle - Old replacement screw without spacer
Top right - replacement plastic spacer
Bottom left - disassembled new bolt, spacer, and screw
bottom Right - broken screw, old replacement spring, and no spacer.


The next puzzling issue is the stripping bar is now grinding on a few of the jaw teeth. I didn't catch it when I first reassembled the winch. I put the old screws back in with the spacer to verify the change isn't what was causing the issue. It looks like I can just grind some of the stripping bar to create some more space. Of course, I didn't get a good pic to illustrate the issue. has anyone else run into the stripping bar touching the bottom self tailer jaw?

 

[Dave G.]

stripping bar is now grinding on a few of the jaw teeth

Definitely a problem and not sure grinding away some of the stripping bar is the solution. Does it rub/grind all the time or just partially ? Maybe a spacer/shim needs to be there to keep the arm off the drum ? At least a thinner one maybe ?

 

[Nick J]

Definitely a problem and not sure grinding away some of the stripping bar is the solution. Does it rub/grind all the time or just partially ? Maybe a spacer/shim needs to be there to keep the arm off the drum ? At least a thinner one maybe ?

Yup, you're on to something Dave. I went down to the boat tonight to take another look at the stripper with the spacer and without. On my cabin top 19, It looks like the stripper rests on the shim and the shim sits on the spacer. The result is a nice gap above and below the stripper arm. Without the spacer, the stripper barely clears the top jaw, and touches part of the bottom which causes the grinding.

I decided to leave the spacer in and see if the new springs provide enough pressure to keep my 10mm halyard from slipping.

Shim sitting on the spacer


With shim


Without shim

 

[Christian Williams]

Here's a photo of my former Barient 19, confirming that the shim is like yours.

My Barient 23 works much better without the spacer (which is termed a "screw stop plate" on the 23 also), but I guess removing that doesn't work on all models.

 

[Nick J]

It's almost the same. Mine has a screw top instead of the spring retainer. Maybe the screw top has compressed the assembly over time allowing the jaw to contact the stripping bar? I'm going to sail it with the space installed a little bit more before making any drastic changes. Without the spacer, It did grab the rope much better, but the grinding ended up adding way too much friction.