Where are all the 36C Owners??
- Thread starter Wander
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Brass Dragon
Member II
Yes, Ahoy 36C owners
Yes we 36C owners are few and far between. I have Brass Dragon moored in Seattle and I know of a few others in the Pacific NW. I would enjoy connecting up other 36C owners and experts. Anyone else out there?
Yes we 36C owners are few and far between. I have Brass Dragon moored in Seattle and I know of a few others in the Pacific NW. I would enjoy connecting up other 36C owners and experts. Anyone else out there?
Thanks for the reply Brass Dragon!. Maybe we can get a conversation going. I'm working on a deck delamination project this winter (nothing too bad) and will be installing a new autopilot this spring. I'm interested to hear about other projects 36C owners have experience with. And if anyone wants to join in a spirited discussion on the proper way to trim the head sails on a true cutter rig, that may help distract from the winter blues!
Joe
Joe
mattwierzba
Junior Member
Here I am
I purchased an Ericson 36c last April and have begun a 2 year refit. The boat sat unused for 10 years, so there are plenty of projects to keep me busy. I spent a lot of the summer ripping up the teak decks, filling the holes, and replacing rotten core around the chainplates and the cockpit sole. I hope to use next season to get the brightwork in order, rebuild the hatches, paint the decks and hull, and give her a bottom job- then add the bells and whistles that will make her ready to cruise. I live in Maine where the winter has finally settled in, giving me ample time to ponder where I am and where I want to be. I'd be grateful to participate in any conversation about his boat. I can't comment on the sailing characteristics because I have yet to set foot on her in the water. I am refitting the boat with a new to me (old) mast and new standing and running rigging, so any input on this front from those with experience on the water would be valued.
Matt
I purchased an Ericson 36c last April and have begun a 2 year refit. The boat sat unused for 10 years, so there are plenty of projects to keep me busy. I spent a lot of the summer ripping up the teak decks, filling the holes, and replacing rotten core around the chainplates and the cockpit sole. I hope to use next season to get the brightwork in order, rebuild the hatches, paint the decks and hull, and give her a bottom job- then add the bells and whistles that will make her ready to cruise. I live in Maine where the winter has finally settled in, giving me ample time to ponder where I am and where I want to be. I'd be grateful to participate in any conversation about his boat. I can't comment on the sailing characteristics because I have yet to set foot on her in the water. I am refitting the boat with a new to me (old) mast and new standing and running rigging, so any input on this front from those with experience on the water would be valued.
Matt
Matt, Welcome Aboard! I'm new to the boat myself, since November of 2010, so I have one season of sailing her under my belt. I did some cruising and some raising and the boat handles wonderfully. I'm planning to replace the standing rigging this spring just out of caution. I will post any updates here if I get to it before you do. I've got the mast down and the boat shrink wrapped with enough space under the cover to allow me to work. This weekend the tracks and blocks are coming off the deck so I can do more investigations on the extent of the water in the core.
Let's hope we can get a few discussions going on both projects and sailing.
Joe
Let's hope we can get a few discussions going on both projects and sailing.
Joe
erikwfab
Member II
36C in SoCal
Greetings Gents,
It sounds like you all have abitious winter boat repair agendas. I have owned my 36C for over 3 years and can attest to her sailing abilities. Unfortunately out here there is no need to haul and cover the boat so the projects get deferred in lou of sailing. I am always interested in sister vessel findings and will gladly participlate in the exchange of info regarding the 36C.
Greetings Gents,
It sounds like you all have abitious winter boat repair agendas. I have owned my 36C for over 3 years and can attest to her sailing abilities. Unfortunately out here there is no need to haul and cover the boat so the projects get deferred in lou of sailing. I am always interested in sister vessel findings and will gladly participlate in the exchange of info regarding the 36C.
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mattwierzba
Junior Member
Questions for any takers
Greetings everyone-
I have a couple of questions that have been on my mind since I purchased my Ericson 36C and stared her refit.
Can anyone speak to the integrity of the aluminum chainplates? I have some surface corrosion in the cabin where the chainplates leaked and the staples in the headliner interacted with the aluminum. These are just small pits, but it got me thinking about the chainplates themselves. They look well bonded to the hull and I cannot see any cracking, but I have never owed a boat with this type of chainplate before. Have any of you had any issues, or replaced them?
Looking forward, I am also curious what type of autopilot/selfsteering gear everyone is using. I keep going back and forth on this one. I have reservations about placing a rotary drive where it will get a repeated dowsing with salt water, but like the idea of and integrated radar/plotter/autopilot system. Anyone with experience with a windvane on this boat instead?
Here is a photo of my project from the day she arrived in the driveway after sitting for 10 years. It is lots of labor, but I already love her.
Greetings everyone-
I have a couple of questions that have been on my mind since I purchased my Ericson 36C and stared her refit.
Can anyone speak to the integrity of the aluminum chainplates? I have some surface corrosion in the cabin where the chainplates leaked and the staples in the headliner interacted with the aluminum. These are just small pits, but it got me thinking about the chainplates themselves. They look well bonded to the hull and I cannot see any cracking, but I have never owed a boat with this type of chainplate before. Have any of you had any issues, or replaced them?
Looking forward, I am also curious what type of autopilot/selfsteering gear everyone is using. I keep going back and forth on this one. I have reservations about placing a rotary drive where it will get a repeated dowsing with salt water, but like the idea of and integrated radar/plotter/autopilot system. Anyone with experience with a windvane on this boat instead?
Here is a photo of my project from the day she arrived in the driveway after sitting for 10 years. It is lots of labor, but I already love her.
Depends on where you are boating
One minor point, tossed down from the uninformed third row in the upper balcony....
The "choice" of an electric autopilot and a wind vane steerer is not an either/or.
In my experience most voyagers have both.
They serve different needs.
When making any open water passage with wind enough to sail, the vane is first choice -- being powered by the wind. When under sail for days at a time, the electrical budget is extremely important. Also, the harder the wind blows, the more steering torque the vane provides.... they really are Way Cool.
Motoring on calm days, gotta have the AP.
I have been on an offshore delivery in heavy air where the vane was absolutely vital, and motoring along in protected waters our 12 volt AP is one of the most important gadgets on the whole boat.
Cheers,
Loren
One minor point, tossed down from the uninformed third row in the upper balcony....
The "choice" of an electric autopilot and a wind vane steerer is not an either/or.
In my experience most voyagers have both.
They serve different needs.
When making any open water passage with wind enough to sail, the vane is first choice -- being powered by the wind. When under sail for days at a time, the electrical budget is extremely important. Also, the harder the wind blows, the more steering torque the vane provides.... they really are Way Cool.
Motoring on calm days, gotta have the AP.
I have been on an offshore delivery in heavy air where the vane was absolutely vital, and motoring along in protected waters our 12 volt AP is one of the most important gadgets on the whole boat.
Cheers,
Loren
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Matt,
Your boat looks pretty darn good for sitting on the hard for ten years. A testiment to Ericson quality!
Regarding the chainplates, I'm no expert but I would think any minor corrosion or surface pitting could be safely sanded off without affecting the integrity of the plates themselves. These plates are by far larger and heavier than I have ever seen on any sailboat even twice the size of ours and I think it would take a lot of corrosion to weaken the metal. Have you taken the interior wood off around the plates yet? This is something I haven't done (and hope not to do) and I would be quite interested in any pictures of how the plates are joined to the hull if you get that far.
As for the autopilot, you're asking the same questions I've been working on for the past few months. My boat currently has an old Raymarine with a rotary drive mounted in the steering box. The motor still works but the computer is shot so I will be purchasing a new system later this year. Personnaly I like the rotary motor mounted where it's at rather than putting an intrusive mount on the wheel like is done with a pedastal wheel. Of course I sail in fresh water but my steering box remains dry even in heavy seas. There simply is no room for a hydraulic cylinder, so a motor of some type is a given. However, my research indicates that Raymarine is the only company that still makes a rotary drive unit, at a cost of about $1500 for the motor! (I really really hoping I can make my motor work with the new control unit.) I currently have no working wind instruments and will probably go with Raymarine so that I have all compatible systems.
Please keep us updated on your project. Remember to take lots of in-progress pictures.
Joe
Your boat looks pretty darn good for sitting on the hard for ten years. A testiment to Ericson quality!
Regarding the chainplates, I'm no expert but I would think any minor corrosion or surface pitting could be safely sanded off without affecting the integrity of the plates themselves. These plates are by far larger and heavier than I have ever seen on any sailboat even twice the size of ours and I think it would take a lot of corrosion to weaken the metal. Have you taken the interior wood off around the plates yet? This is something I haven't done (and hope not to do) and I would be quite interested in any pictures of how the plates are joined to the hull if you get that far.
As for the autopilot, you're asking the same questions I've been working on for the past few months. My boat currently has an old Raymarine with a rotary drive mounted in the steering box. The motor still works but the computer is shot so I will be purchasing a new system later this year. Personnaly I like the rotary motor mounted where it's at rather than putting an intrusive mount on the wheel like is done with a pedastal wheel. Of course I sail in fresh water but my steering box remains dry even in heavy seas. There simply is no room for a hydraulic cylinder, so a motor of some type is a given. However, my research indicates that Raymarine is the only company that still makes a rotary drive unit, at a cost of about $1500 for the motor! (I really really hoping I can make my motor work with the new control unit.) I currently have no working wind instruments and will probably go with Raymarine so that I have all compatible systems.
Please keep us updated on your project. Remember to take lots of in-progress pictures.
Joe
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Aluminum chainplates, their care and feeding.
Sightly off topic but still pertaining to your aluminum chainplates, the former owner of E31 hull #43 was concerned about how the clevis pin holes in his aluminum chainplates were getting egg shaped and resolved to come up with a fix. He cleverly over drilled the holes in the aluminum to the precise OD of some stainless tubing that he cut to the length of the width of the chainplate and then pressed into the new hole. Over time the stainless would react (it did) to the aluminum and locked these little "barrels" into their new permanent homes. He then simply reassembled the standing rigging using the same clevis pins as before with the stainless pins in stainless barrels. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
Sightly off topic but still pertaining to your aluminum chainplates, the former owner of E31 hull #43 was concerned about how the clevis pin holes in his aluminum chainplates were getting egg shaped and resolved to come up with a fix. He cleverly over drilled the holes in the aluminum to the precise OD of some stainless tubing that he cut to the length of the width of the chainplate and then pressed into the new hole. Over time the stainless would react (it did) to the aluminum and locked these little "barrels" into their new permanent homes. He then simply reassembled the standing rigging using the same clevis pins as before with the stainless pins in stainless barrels. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
/sealing those pesky chainplate leaks.
Joe, A lot of us including myself have had a great deal of success rebedding the area of the chainplates and the deck in the following manner. We remove the stainless steel cover plate after having gotten the clevis pin and turnbuckle end out of the way. This almost always results in slacking the shroud and loosening the turnbuckle in order to totally remove it from the chainplate. It worked well for me to clean out all the crud and debris from around all four sides of the chainplates by, first mechanically removing as much as possible with a scratch awl, etc and then cutting a 45° moat into the glass around all four sides using a tapered stone and a Dremel or similar tool. The area again needs to be cleaned thoroughly prior to applying a fillet of 3M 101 in the area created. The cover plate is then gently pressed down enough to extrude the excess but not too much as to not leave a bit extra that can be compressed after it cures when securing the cover plate. I called 3M years ago to get their opinion as to what product would be best for this application and the answer they gave me was 3M 101 because of its ability to adhere well to fiberglass as well as aluminum, or I'm my case stainless steel (Ericson switched from aluminum to stainless steel chainplates at E31, hull #47). So with the anticipated movement of the chainplate bedded in the flexible 3M 101, you couldn't ask for a more perfect marriage. Of course, the cover plate screws need bedding as well. All that said, I must offer the disclaimer that my opinion is worth even less than Loren's stated 2 cents even if it worked fantastically well for me and nary a chainplate leak has been seen since for at least the last 10 years or more. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
Joe, A lot of us including myself have had a great deal of success rebedding the area of the chainplates and the deck in the following manner. We remove the stainless steel cover plate after having gotten the clevis pin and turnbuckle end out of the way. This almost always results in slacking the shroud and loosening the turnbuckle in order to totally remove it from the chainplate. It worked well for me to clean out all the crud and debris from around all four sides of the chainplates by, first mechanically removing as much as possible with a scratch awl, etc and then cutting a 45° moat into the glass around all four sides using a tapered stone and a Dremel or similar tool. The area again needs to be cleaned thoroughly prior to applying a fillet of 3M 101 in the area created. The cover plate is then gently pressed down enough to extrude the excess but not too much as to not leave a bit extra that can be compressed after it cures when securing the cover plate. I called 3M years ago to get their opinion as to what product would be best for this application and the answer they gave me was 3M 101 because of its ability to adhere well to fiberglass as well as aluminum, or I'm my case stainless steel (Ericson switched from aluminum to stainless steel chainplates at E31, hull #47). So with the anticipated movement of the chainplate bedded in the flexible 3M 101, you couldn't ask for a more perfect marriage. Of course, the cover plate screws need bedding as well. All that said, I must offer the disclaimer that my opinion is worth even less than Loren's stated 2 cents even if it worked fantastically well for me and nary a chainplate leak has been seen since for at least the last 10 years or more. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA
Chainplate leaks.
Joe, When I opened my last remarks by saying that a lot of us, bla, bla, bla, I should have noted that I'm only speaking for the E31 community. Glyn
Joe, When I opened my last remarks by saying that a lot of us, bla, bla, bla, I should have noted that I'm only speaking for the E31 community. Glyn
Glyn,
Thanks for the thoughts on the bedding question. I understand you're speaking from an E31 perspective but I know the construction was very similar between the two boats. Does the E31 have the large knees below decks like the 36C?
You point out that your chain plates are stainless steel. I had made the assumption that mine were aluminum because they are painted black below decks, but I now realize they are probably SS as well. So thanks for pointing out the obvious. Are you aware of any significant corrosion issues where the plates go through the deck? I'm told that is the most susceptible area for corrosion and the most difficult to detect.
Also, regarding the 3M 101, which is a polysulfide. Do you have any experience with butyl tape? This has been highly recommended to me for bedding deck hardware and port lights and I was considering using it for the cover plate as well.
Cheers,
Joe
Thanks for the thoughts on the bedding question. I understand you're speaking from an E31 perspective but I know the construction was very similar between the two boats. Does the E31 have the large knees below decks like the 36C?
You point out that your chain plates are stainless steel. I had made the assumption that mine were aluminum because they are painted black below decks, but I now realize they are probably SS as well. So thanks for pointing out the obvious. Are you aware of any significant corrosion issues where the plates go through the deck? I'm told that is the most susceptible area for corrosion and the most difficult to detect.
Also, regarding the 3M 101, which is a polysulfide. Do you have any experience with butyl tape? This has been highly recommended to me for bedding deck hardware and port lights and I was considering using it for the cover plate as well.
Cheers,
Joe
Chainplate questions.
Joe, There are knees below in the cabin on those E31's fitted with aluminum chainplates, but not after the conversion to stainless steel. At the hull #47 change over, the stainless ones are oriented on deck parallel to the center line of the boat whereas the earlier aluminum ones are athwart, thus the knees. As a matter of fact the stainless ones are glassed to the hull in the configuration of the teeth of a comb, the spine of which is horizontal, either all one piece of metal or welded that way. Don't think that yours aren't aluminum just because of the black paint. Some of the early E31 sloops with teak anchor platforms were reinforced beneath with 1/4" plate aluminum that the factory painted black. I've seen that done on several of them. As to chainplate corrosion, first of all let me say that I'm rapidly drifting away from any personal technical knowledge when it comes to metallurgy. Actually I'm not much of an expert of anything, truth be told. But I think you are referring to crevice corrosion in stainless steel which it seems pretty likely, would occur just out of sight where it's not only hidden from view but also deprived of as much oxygen as in the open air. I've not heard of that or anything similar to that with aluminum, maybe others smarter than I am can step in here and straighten me out before I go any farther. I have used butyl tape as a bedding material on our boat but not at the chainplates. I can see that working just fine for a cleat or stanchion base, neither of which are prone to as much movement in use as our chainplates can be. The 3M 101 is so easy to use (not that the butyl isn't) that I never even considered anything other given the endorsement of the 3M tech rep I spoke with who really seemed to know what he was talking about. When he told me that it would stick to glass and stainless and would flex with them, I was sold and didn't want to experiment on my own. And while on the subject, my best guess is that yours are aluminum given the date of manufacture prior to our E31's and the presence of black paint on yours below deck. I do have documented that a stainless steel chainplate gave out just below the deck at the worst time possible on E31 hull #60 and almost caused total failure of the rig according to the owner at the time. Her solution was to have all of them removed and replaced with individual ones through bolted to the outside of the hull and that when I mentioned it to Bruce King, he shook his head in disgust. I hope some of the above helps you in your decision making. Cheers, Glyn
Joe, There are knees below in the cabin on those E31's fitted with aluminum chainplates, but not after the conversion to stainless steel. At the hull #47 change over, the stainless ones are oriented on deck parallel to the center line of the boat whereas the earlier aluminum ones are athwart, thus the knees. As a matter of fact the stainless ones are glassed to the hull in the configuration of the teeth of a comb, the spine of which is horizontal, either all one piece of metal or welded that way. Don't think that yours aren't aluminum just because of the black paint. Some of the early E31 sloops with teak anchor platforms were reinforced beneath with 1/4" plate aluminum that the factory painted black. I've seen that done on several of them. As to chainplate corrosion, first of all let me say that I'm rapidly drifting away from any personal technical knowledge when it comes to metallurgy. Actually I'm not much of an expert of anything, truth be told. But I think you are referring to crevice corrosion in stainless steel which it seems pretty likely, would occur just out of sight where it's not only hidden from view but also deprived of as much oxygen as in the open air. I've not heard of that or anything similar to that with aluminum, maybe others smarter than I am can step in here and straighten me out before I go any farther. I have used butyl tape as a bedding material on our boat but not at the chainplates. I can see that working just fine for a cleat or stanchion base, neither of which are prone to as much movement in use as our chainplates can be. The 3M 101 is so easy to use (not that the butyl isn't) that I never even considered anything other given the endorsement of the 3M tech rep I spoke with who really seemed to know what he was talking about. When he told me that it would stick to glass and stainless and would flex with them, I was sold and didn't want to experiment on my own. And while on the subject, my best guess is that yours are aluminum given the date of manufacture prior to our E31's and the presence of black paint on yours below deck. I do have documented that a stainless steel chainplate gave out just below the deck at the worst time possible on E31 hull #60 and almost caused total failure of the rig according to the owner at the time. Her solution was to have all of them removed and replaced with individual ones through bolted to the outside of the hull and that when I mentioned it to Bruce King, he shook his head in disgust. I hope some of the above helps you in your decision making. Cheers, Glyn
A couple thoughts on the aluminum chain plates etc. My hull is #44, and my chain plates are aluminum and appear to have been painted black. I did use butyl tape on the chainplates to seal them, and so far it is working (been about 2+ years). While I haven't seen aluminum and crevice corrosion discussed like stainless, a quick search in google gets hits - here's a write-up that seems reasonable:
http://www.aluminiumdesign.net/corrosion-resistance.html
http://www.aluminiumdesign.net/corrosion-resistance.html
Meeting Bruce King.
Joe, I knew that I was risking name dropping when I mentioned that and for that I apologize but, yes I have met him and his lovely wife Pam on two different occasions over the years. The point of my mentioning it at all was to relay to this group his disapproval of the chainplates being through bolted to the outside of the hull. Email me at glynjudson@roadrunner.com and I'd be happy to send you an image of that boat as well as aluminum vs. stainless steel chainplates, knees and anything else you think you'd like to see. At last count, I have well over 2,000 images of about 70 of the 73 E31's ever laid up. Over the years I've been able to track down all of them save hulls #67 & 68. At that, my best guess is that if I find one of them, there's a good chance of finding the other based on the assumption that they were both sold by the same dealer and odds are that they are still somewhat near their original home waters even today. Glyn
Joe, I knew that I was risking name dropping when I mentioned that and for that I apologize but, yes I have met him and his lovely wife Pam on two different occasions over the years. The point of my mentioning it at all was to relay to this group his disapproval of the chainplates being through bolted to the outside of the hull. Email me at glynjudson@roadrunner.com and I'd be happy to send you an image of that boat as well as aluminum vs. stainless steel chainplates, knees and anything else you think you'd like to see. At last count, I have well over 2,000 images of about 70 of the 73 E31's ever laid up. Over the years I've been able to track down all of them save hulls #67 & 68. At that, my best guess is that if I find one of them, there's a good chance of finding the other based on the assumption that they were both sold by the same dealer and odds are that they are still somewhat near their original home waters even today. Glyn