The Awkwardness of Prop Walk, Illustrated [and Propeller Choices]

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I wound up helpless a few days ago, and in need of a tow. I knew it would happen sooner or later, and was well aware of why it might. The reason: prop walk.

I back 38' Thelonious II into a slipway just 50 feet wide. Prop walk helps make the initial backwards turn to port, which is always dicey. The expected path looks like this, and usually comes out fine. The departure angle at dots 2 and 3 is critical.

depart Slip CYC - Copy.JPG

But on Friday, to compensate for a freshening breeze of maybe 10 knots, I overcorrected the initial turn. By dot 3 I was doomed. Despite having used only a minor burst of throttle, enough to get some sternway (then into neutral), the prop walk to port had begun. At 1 knot the rudder was ineffective. Without remedy we would collide with the outer dock.

wind problem departure Slip CYC.JPG

This has happened to me before, and with patience I've been able to zig zag in place until luck pointed either end of the boat toward escape to the wide fairway. I have done that for 20 minutes, confident in my skills of pirouetting a 16,000-pound sailboat within inches of other vessels using sensitive throttle and shift controls at speeds of 1/4 knot. Ah, but this time there was a breeze. As I maneuvered--for what seemed like half an hour--I could never get either bow or stern to point toward freedom. This was the resulting path.

zigzags PS.jpg

The boat could not be turned into the wind. Eventually (vertical squiggles above) I positioned the boat pointed the right direction, helped by sailors on the sharp bows of two moored boats. But it was not possible to engage forward gear there, because the stern would swing into the push-off boats. With help, I finally maneuvered Thelonious II broadside to the end-dock and got the dockmaster to tow me out with a club utility boat.

I mention this because it reveals the Helpless Position auxiliary sailboats can encounter in the absence of bow thrusters.

I was alone, as I often am--a crew aboard could have probably got us pointed correctly with a boathook. When helpers arrived, I tried a warp to haul the bow around, but the line had to be 200 feet long, and carrying it to the proper point meant clambering bow-to-bow over half a dozen vessels, an awkward and time-consuming exercise. My efforts to float a warp across the slipway failed because the warp sank. A dinghy was needed.

I was surprised to find no solution for a singlehander in this particular set of circumstances. I'll continue to back out the same way, as there's no good alternative. I'll continue to do it solo, because in a calm I am still confident I can do it. But any breeze will make for pause.

Things go wrong, and when they do, sometimes there's no escape from the Helpless Position. Good to think twice before we get into it.
 
Last edited:

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
Firstly, I don't envy you having to navigate this on a regular basis and don't think I would have the patience to do it long term. My slip has it's issues when the wind is up but I have a straight shot ! I have been in tight fairways and found when the wind or current is strong it's best for me to step on the gas harder when doing maneuvers to keep the correct angles to make the turn. As you know this is difficult to do while keeping a hand on the wheel unless you are willing to "power shift" that little tranny which is not advisable and I wouldn't attempt. So usually there's foot/knee involved for necessary helm control while adjusting throttle up and down. This is when I wish my boat had an actual gas pedal ! It's the only method I've found to keep enough headway/rudder control to overcome the conditions and give me a fighting chance.
 

dhill

Member III
Hi Christian,

I have the same trepidation leaving the dock (and sometimes returning). I fortunately have a bit more space where my slip is, but the marina narrows down substantially to an area of smaller boats. I'm always hyper-aware that a strong southerly breeze will blow me perpendicularly into that narrowed area, where I will be helpless with less than zero room to maneuver and will hit other boats. So far, it hasn't happened, but I could foresee situations where it could happen. I once saw a sailboat get caught on an awkwardly located lobster pot in the marina, lost its maneuverability and drifted with much surrounding activity.

I have been docking boats since 8 years old, although they have been generally smaller sailboats and motor boats. If the dock spot is large enough to handle the boat, I have always been able to get it in and get it out.

The opening of my current slip faces north and the dock is to the west with another boat docked about 3-4 feet to the east. The prevailing breeze is typically out of the south, so often I can just gently inch the boat in so that the amount of reverse needed is so light that port prop walk is not an issue. However, if there is a decent breeze out of the west, it is much more challenging. In that case, I cannot just inch in because the wind will blow me into the boat to the east. If I come in faster, the prop walk from the harder reverse will draw my stern to port, aiding the wind in blowing me into the same boat. I have improved, but that situation is still not as smooth and confident as I would like.

Someone a few slips down always backs their sailboat in to the slip after the initial prop walk has subsided, so they can use their rudder and forward gear to stop, but they have a lot more room to maneuver to get that "running start" and that would not work in your situation.

I purchased a "docking stick" that looked like it could be a good solution (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=docking+stick) for such situations, but I find that in a tight marina, I am not always feel confident I can get the boat pointed in the right direction into the slip to leave the helm, get to the starboard side, and get the line around the cleat in time. If I miss the cleat, I have almost zero time to get back to the helm and throw the boat into reverse before hitting the dock - and then I still have the prop walk issue pulling me towards my slip mate. I'm sure that more practice is in order.

Dave
 

Neil Gallagher

1984 E381
The fairway in the marina is not as narrow as you describe and our usual wind is 10 - 20, I usually head bow into he slip with a cross wind favoring the Port Bow, so it can be a challange. However, I use an AutoProp and really like it because there is "0" prop walk. They are a 3 blade feathering prop so the blades actaully flip aroud in the opposite pitch in reverse, they are not cheap do require adjusting at haul out but I'm very pleased with its performace.


 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
I've asked Autoprop for a recommendation and a price. With my slip, elimination of prop walk would be a luxury.

Looks like the Autoprop requires a haul-out for installation.

I noticed that a YouTube customer also provides a recommendation specific to the E38:

@johnhines8524 years ago
I had one of these on an Ericson 38, it was brilliant, all the good things you said is what I found also. I had the boat 8 years, greased the prop and changed the anode at each haulout and had no problems of any kind with this prop in about 5000 miles of sailing. I could center the rudder, put it in reverse and back straight up without any propwalk. The boat would stop dead in about three boat lengths from normal cruise of about 6 knots. It would also hunker down and push into a sea like it had a bigger engine, 2000 rpm would give 5 knots against 5 foot waves and 25 knots on the nose, 32 hp and 20,000 lb boat. Not bad at all.
 
Last edited:

Neil Gallagher

1984 E381
I've asked Autoprop for a recommendation and a price. With my slip, elimination of prop walk would be a luxury.

Looks like the Autoprop requires a haul-out for installation.

I noticed that a YouTube customer also provides a recommendation specific to the E38:

@johnhines8524 years ago
I had one of these on an Ericson 38, it was brilliant, all the good things you said is what I found also. I had the boat 8 years, greased the prop and changed the anode at each haulout and had no problems of any kind with this prop in about 5000 miles of sailing. I could center the rudder, put it in reverse and back straight up without any propwalk. The boat would stop dead in about three boat lengths from normal cruise of about 6 knots. It would also hunker down and push into a sea like it had a bigger engine, 2000 rpm would give 5 knots against 5 foot waves and 25 knots on the nose, 32 hp and 20,000 lb boat. Not bad at all.
 

Neil Gallagher

1984 E381
One caveat I should have mentioned. When shifting from forward to reverse (and vise versa) it takes a few seconds for the blades to flip around and for the pitch to set. Once rpms come up the prop is self pitchng based up the rpm, so I just goose it for a moment then boat starts responding then I back down on the rpm. Hope that helps.
 

Pete the Cat

Member III
I have a narrow fairway here in California and the regular old fixed blade factory Ericson Campbell Sailor prop (which is amazingly well pitched for the vessel from the factory--lots of production boats seem overpitched and this was a pleasant surprise). I am lucky that I generally have an upwind slip, but occasionally have a significant crosswind. I have had good luck with aggressive bursts of power, both forward and reverse, port and starboard wheel, against the rudder, to move the bow rather smartly. My boat is a 32-200 and I think it has less lateral stability than a 38 would have and less mass to accelerate, so maybe that would make it easier in my situation. My Tartan 37 has an Autostream feathering prop and it has less walk than the factory prop but still walks a bit though other owners claim their feathering props do not. I actually find walking quite beneficial when trying to shoehorn myself in a narrow dock gap at a busy float or just positioning against a dock without touching a fender.

But my thought is that folks need to outfit their boats the way they use them and for their environment. As a mechanical point, a feathering or folding props sometimes require a different taper length and key--so it is sometimes a good time for a review of the whole drive system (facing, shaft wear, stuffing box seal, cutless, etc) while it is out of the water. Mostly, I like the half knot extra speed I get sailing and the more efficient acceleration and cruise of the feathering three blade propeller.
 

Pete the Cat

Member III
I wound up helpless a few days ago, and in need of a tow. I knew it would happen sooner or later, and was well aware of why it might. The reason: prop walk.

I back 38' Thelonious II into a slipway just 50 feet wide. Prop walk helps make the initial backwards turn to port, which is always dicey. The expected path looks like this, and usually comes out fine. The departure angle at dots 2 and 3 is critical.

View attachment 49394

But on Friday, to compensate for a freshening breeze of maybe 10 knots, I overcorrected the initial turn. By dot 3 I was doomed. Despite having used only a minor burst of throttle, enough to get some sternway (then into neutral), the prop walk to port had begun. At 1 knot the rudder was ineffective. Without remedy we would collide with the outer dock.

View attachment 49399

This has happened to me before, and with patience I've been able to zig zag in place until luck pointed either end of the boat toward escape to the wide fairway. I have done that for 20 minutes, confident in my skills of pirouetting a 16,000-pound sailboat within inches of other vessels using sensitive throttle and shift controls at speeds of 1/4 knot. Ah, but this time there was a breeze. As I maneuvered--for what seemed like half an hour--I could never get either bow or stern to point toward freedom. This was the resulting path.

View attachment 49396

The boat could not be turned into the wind. Eventually (vertical squiggles above) I positioned the boat pointed the right direction, helped by sailors on the sharp bows of two moored boats. But it was not possible to engage forward gear there, because the stern would swing into the push-off boats. With help, I finally maneuvered Thelonious II broadside to the end-dock and got the dockmaster to tow me out with a club utility boat.

I mention this because it reveals the Helpless Position auxiliary sailboats can encounter in the absence of bow thrusters.

I was alone, as I often am--a crew aboard could have probably got us pointed correctly with a boathook. When helpers arrived, I tried a warp to haul the bow around, but the line had to be 200 feet long, and carrying it to the proper point meant clambering bow-to-bow over half a dozen vessels, an awkward and time-consuming exercise. My efforts to float a warp across the slipway failed because the warp sank. A dinghy was needed.

I was surprised to find no solution for a singlehander in this particular set of circumstances. I'll continue to back out the same way, as there's no good alternative. I'll continue to do it solo, because in a calm I am still confident I can do it. But any breeze will make for pause.

Things go wrong, and when they do, sometimes there's no escape from the Helpless Position. Good to think twice before we get into it.
How about slowly backing down the fairway with your bow to the wind, using occasional bursts of forward power (starboard or port) to keep the bow on the wind; and then when you get to your slip, just turning to starboard into the slip. The windjammers in Maine do this at our town dock in Maine when wind and current is against them. This probably would not work with a wind of over 10 knots, but it is the only solution I would see in those conditions.
 

Bolo

Contributing Partner
I always back down the fairway and into the slip at my marina when returning and I use prop walk to my advantage just outside of the fairway to set my boat up for the maneuver. In fact most boats at our marina dock stern first because of the exact problem Christian has to overcome. Getting to boat out of the slip can be a real bear when the wind blows on the beam. Even leaving bow first can be a problem sometimes because my bow in a strong wind can be blown to the opposite direction I need to go before I can make my turn out of the slip. A spring line doesn’t work very well for me in this situation especially short handed or solo. So, why fight Mother Nature? In those cases I let the bow blow over, get the boat out of the slip (going the wrong way) and then shift into reverse , slowly increasing power to minimize prop walk and back out of the fairway. I’ve only had to do this maneuver a handful of times over the years. 99% of the time I find that returning to the slip stern first makes leaving it bow first much easier for obvious reasons. BTW, I also face to the stern when backing in because I find it much easier than twisting my body or looking over my should to see where I’m going. Takes a little practice but works gets after you get use to it. You can see me doing it in one or two of my YouTube videos.

Go to time stamp 6:40 to see my ”stern first” maneuver. I learned this from an old sailor when I first started sailing.
 

bsangs

E35-3 - New Jersey
Was always comforting in my youthful indiscretion days when a chum had to accompany me to the principal’s office for a rap on the knuckles - not necessarily figuratively - from Sister Antonia. Christian, you’re that chum today. That this scenario could unfold for a seasoned sailor is - for lack of a better word - comforting. As still relatively new sailors, there‘s a constant state of anxiety when approaching an unfamiliar marina, worrying if we’ll find ourselves in a tight position like this, how we’ll navigate it in and out, and not look like the newbies that we are. But you’ve provided concrete evidence that it can happen to anyone. (Just looking at your slip area makes me sweat a bit.) Thanks for sharing this in such a detailed manner. Hope the winds are in your favor the majority of the time.
 

Nick J

Sustaining Member
Moderator
Blogs Author
I always back down the fairway and into the slip at my marina when returning and I use prop walk to my advantage just outside of the fairway to set my boat up for the maneuver. In fact most boats at our marina dock stern first because of the exact problem Christian has to overcome. Getting to boat out of the slip can be a real bear when the wind blows on the beam. Even leaving bow first can be a problem sometimes because my bow in a strong wind can be blown to the opposite direction I need to go before I can make my turn out of the slip. A spring line doesn’t work very well for me in this situation especially short handed or solo. So, why fight Mother Nature? In those cases I let the bow blow over, get the boat out of the slip (going the wrong way) and then shift into reverse , slowly increasing power to minimize prop walk and back out of the fairway. I’ve only had to do this maneuver a handful of times over the years. 99% of the time I find that returning to the slip stern first makes leaving it bow first much easier for obvious reasons. BTW, I also face to the stern when backing in because I find it much easier than twisting my body or looking over my should to see where I’m going. Takes a little practice but works gets after you get use to it. You can see me doing it in one or two of my YouTube videos.

Go to time stamp 6:40 to see my ”stern first” maneuver. I learned this from an old sailor when I first started sailing.
Nice! I'm going to have to try that. I go forward down the fairway then use prop walk/wash to turn the boat and back into my slip. Great video
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Quote from Autoprop:

Yacht: Ericson 38
Engine make and model: Universal M32
Shaft dia: 1”
Autoprop H5-416mm Price: £2566.00
Delivery will be approximately 10 to 14 working days.
International Buyers - Please Note:
Import duties, taxes, and charges are not included in the item price or shipping cost. These charges are the buyer's responsibility. Please check with your country's customs office to determine what these additional costs will be prior to purchasing.
 

G Kiba

Sustaining Member
"How about slowly backing down the fairway with your bow to the wind, using occasional bursts of forward power (starboard or port) to keep the bow on the wind; and then when you get to your slip, just turning to starboard into the slip."

I agree with Ray on backing out. Back out into the fairway using a dock line on the starboard aft cleat to maneuver and keep the bow into or just off the wind. I use a good length of nylon floating line wrapped around the cleat on the dock and back to the cockpit or vice-versa. Once you are in the fairway, collect the line back into the boat or throw it back on the dock.

Did this for 16 years in my slip on the delta. 10-15 knots of wind straight down the fairway almost everyday in the summer. City marina was re-designed by a guy who knew parking lots and not marinas. Prevailing wind direction is all wrong for most of the slips there. Floating line is inexpensive and will stay out of your prop and other boats props. Best thing about that marina was and still is the price. 32' slip for $181 a month. Worst thing, one night I was sleeping aboard and woke-up to the sound of pistol rounds zipping through the water. Some nut was shooting from the shore into the fairway.
 

southofvictor

Member III
Blogs Author
I get nervous in a southerly breeze because I have the same basic setup as you Christian. If I get blown down and pinned though I’m aground.

My usual exit is to back out and get enough way on for the rudder to overcome prop walk, get the stern over to starboard as quickly as possible, and drive out in forward. When the wind is out of the south and the bow gets pushed down I’ve usually been able to do a clockwise pivot like the circle shows by holding the wheel full starboard and going back and forth between short bursts of forward and reverse. A local showed me this and it’s been very handy. I’m always losing ground though while doing it and if the bow won’t come into the wind within two or three tries I just get all the way to the east of the fairway and try to put enough way on to back all the way down without prop walk affecting me anymore.

My stomach gets tight just thinking about it ;). BTW I have an 18” Max Prop. I think that might help. Maybe not as good as the Autoprop but it seems to do the job.

IMG_3842.jpeg
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
I found the issue with folding props is the lag that occurs when changing direction and requires rpm's to fully open. Most of the time it is a non issue but when you're in a tight maneuver seconds seem like eternity. If you currently have a 2 blade prop then most likely the improved thrust of a 3 blade will make a difference.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Regarding Autoprop:

Neil, as an owner, can you speak to this? I would require near-instant response when shifting forward to reverse at very low RPMs. and perhaps as Dave suggests that might be a factor with a folding/reversing propeller in my particular situation.

(I currently have a three-blade 15" Michigan prop pitched 12. Creates big prop walk)
 

Frank Langer

1984 Ericson 30+, Nanaimo, BC
Regarding Autoprop:

Neil, as an owner, can you speak to this? I would require near-instant response when shifting forward to reverse at very low RPMs. and perhaps as Dave suggests that might be a factor with a folding/reversing propeller in my particular situation.

(I currently have a three-blade 15" Michigan prop pitched 12. Creates big prop walk)
Christian, we have a 2 blade Varifold folding propeller on our 1984 E30+. I have turned the boat in a complete circle in a narrow fairway using low speed forward/reverse and had no issue with the propeller during this maneuver. Our propeller is a geared one, so I don't know if it would work as well with the older non-geared folding propeller.
Frank
 

bsangs

E35-3 - New Jersey
We have a folding MaxProp, two-blade, and haven’t experienced any trouble with response from forward to reverse, and vice versa.
 
Top