35-2: Where to Tap Rudder Log for Zerk Fitting (measurement)?

[WindHorse]

In addition to repacking the rudder stuffing on my 35-2 (1970, #155), I'd like to follow the advice on other threads to install a zerk/grease fitting. Does anyone know how high I can go on the rudder log without drilling into the bushing/bearing/bronze fixture at the top of the log??? Since I'm doing this in the water, I'd rather not deal with water ingress (even though I can probably plug it with butyl or whatever...). Anyone have a diagram or blueprint???

 

[Dave G.]

Mine on a 84 30+ is about 5" below the packing gland flange. It is above the waterline on mine but you may want to measure to be sure. I don't think the vertical position would be super critical as all you are doing is filling the entire space with grease so really no need to fight water ingress.

 

[Kevin A Wright]

On my 1986 E35 - 3 its about 2 inches up from the hull on the forward side of the shaft. If I was smart I would have run a hard copper line to just inside the lazarette hatch so you could just lift the lid and fill it instead of spending half the day playing contortionist.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

 

[WindHorse]

On my 1986 E35 - 3 its about 2 inches up from the hull on the forward side of the shaft. If I was smart I would have run a hard copper line to just inside the lazarette hatch so you could just lift the lid and fill it instead of spending half the day playing contortionist.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

LOL! Yes, I had to deconstruct the starboard side to access the bolts on that side...and sticking my head and one arm through the quarterberth access on the port side is not exactly "comfortable" either!

 

[Kevin A Wright]

If you ever meet someone who is 4 ft tall, weighs 100 lbs, has 6 foot long arms with two elbows on each, and can see in the dark let me know - I've got a great career opportunity for them in boat maintenance.

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

 

[goldenstate]

Here is my recent analysis of the same issue, complete with homemade drawing and factory diagram

E32-200 - Rudder Post Observations and Anatomy

Summary: I studied my rudder mechanism and made a section drawing for future reference, included below. It seems important to have an abundance of grease squirted into the post sleeve. My rudder is currently out of my boat and I thought this...

ericsonyachts.org

Your boat is older so may be different. If you have an existing zerk, I would try to match the height. Otherwise I would try to go 6-8" below the top of your rudder stuffing box.

When you drill into the rudder log, probe gently as you push the bit in. You don't want to mar the rudder post and if the pressure splatters fiberglass thread shards into the center of the log, they may interfere with grease distribution and or create an annoying chafe for the rudder.

I also recommend you buy your zerk fitting first so that you can drill an appropriate hole that will sort-of create a tighten-able hole into which you can screw the zerk. I used some JB weld to help glue in the threaded zerk. I got these stainless ones on Amazon.

Utah Pneumatic 1/8" npt Stainless Steel Grease Fittings Assortment 4pcs-Straight, 4pcs-90-Degree, Elbow Grease 4pcs 45-Degree Angled Zerks Fittings Hydraulic Grease Nippel Kit(Pack of 12): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Utah Pneumatic 1/8" npt Stainless Steel Grease Fittings Assortment 4pcs-Straight, 4pcs-90-Degree, Elbow Grease 4pcs 45-Degree Angled Zerks Fittings Hydraulic Grease Nippel Kit(Pack of 12): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

I have yet do do a full write-up or testing of my install, but there you go.

 

[WindHorse]

Here is my recent analysis of the same issue, complete with homemade drawing and factory diagram

E32-200 - Rudder Post Observations and Anatomy

Summary: I studied my rudder mechanism and made a section drawing for future reference, included below. It seems important to have an abundance of grease squirted into the post sleeve. My rudder is currently out of my boat and I thought this...

ericsonyachts.org

Your boat is older so may be different. If you have an existing zerk, I would try to match the height. Otherwise I would try to go 6-8" below the top of your rudder stuffing box.

When you drill into the rudder log, probe gently as you push the bit in. You don't want to mar the rudder post and if the pressure splatters fiberglass thread shards into the center of the log, they may interfere with grease distribution and or create an annoying chafe for the rudder.

I also recommend you buy your zerk fitting first so that you can drill an appropriate hole that will sort-of create a tighten-able hole into which you can screw the zerk. I used some JB weld to help glue in the threaded zerk. I got these stainless ones on Amazon.

Utah Pneumatic 1/8" npt Stainless Steel Grease Fittings Assortment 4pcs-Straight, 4pcs-90-Degree, Elbow Grease 4pcs 45-Degree Angled Zerks Fittings Hydraulic Grease Nippel Kit(Pack of 12): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Utah Pneumatic 1/8" npt Stainless Steel Grease Fittings Assortment 4pcs-Straight, 4pcs-90-Degree, Elbow Grease 4pcs 45-Degree Angled Zerks Fittings Hydraulic Grease Nippel Kit(Pack of 12): Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

I have yet do do a full write-up or testing of my install, but there you go.

Thanks! Does anyone know how the dimensions might differ between the 32 and 35? For one, the rudder post on my 35-2 is angled--auxilary/emergency head is forward of the pedestal and takes a full size tiller rather than coming straight up like the 32. That shouldn't make a difference in the conceptual design, but I believe it makes the rudder post longer, and thus the bushings in the log might be positioned differently? I really have no idea what I'm talking about I just don't want to haul out to do what should otherwise be pretty simple.

 

[Christian Williams]

Seems to me that the bushings are at the ends, so anywhere in the middle would make sense.

The idea is to drill through the tube until you hit the rudder post, so the Zerk will admit grease into the tube.

If for some reason you're not happy with the position of the Zerk install, you can always just leave it there and drill for another one.

It would be good to hear from somebody who has put a Zerk into a 32-2 rudder tube. Most reports here are about the -3 models, which have vertical tubes. But the concept ought to be the same.

 

[ignacio]

Here's an image of where I installed a zerk fitting on my 35-II in 2014. I drilled it first all the way through with a 1/8" (I think) bit, follwed by a 1/2" bit about a half inch through and epoxied the zerk fitting in place. I didn't take a chance, so I hauled the boat out, which offered an opportunity to do other necessary work.

I just replaced the rudder on my boat in December 2020 and, interestingly, the inside of the rudder tube (at least on my boat) is something that looks like 3" gray PVC pipe, with fiberglass molded around it, and bronze bearings at the top and bottom of the tube. Once I installed the new rudder, I used the zerk fitting to inject new grease into the tube...no issues. Just have to remember to reinstall the cap on the zerk fitting it keep it from corroding.

 

[ignacio]

Here's a view of the inside of the rudder tube, viewed from the bottom looking up. That small hole on the right is the hole I drilled for grease injection.

 

[WindHorse]

Here's a view of the inside of the rudder tube, viewed from the bottom looking up. That small hole on the right is the hole I drilled for grease injection.

Fantastic! That's what I was looking for. Given that I think your hold is just at--or possibly below the water line (do you know?), it looks like it could even be drilled 2 inches higher and still fall below the bushing... I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[ignacio]

The hole is above the waterline at the dock. That's not true under sail, however, which is why I installed the zerk fitting to begin with - packing with grease has the effect of blocking water ingress when underway.

What I don't know is how that top bushing is secured onto the rudder tube. When I removed the rudder recently, the collar that's in contact with the fiberglass tube wouldn't move, and I wasn't sure how much of the collar wasn't visible due to the fiberglass. Good luck!

 

[WindHorse]

The hole is above the waterline at the dock. That's not true under sail, however, which is why I installed the zerk fitting to begin with - packing with grease has the effect of blocking water ingress when underway.

What I don't know is how that top bushing is secured onto the rudder tube. When I removed the rudder recently, the collar that's in contact with the fiberglass tube wouldn't move, and I wasn't sure how much of the collar wasn't visible due to the fiberglass. Good luck!

Right. When I first noticed my bilge pump going crazy (40 cycles/hour) underway, I I though it was my driveshaft stuffing, but upon closer inspection, I noticed ingress from astern. I then set up a GoPro to see what it looked like at the rudder stuffing, and it was spewing (100 times more than "dripping") from the collar. Upon disassembly, I noted that the top plate was fully tightened to the bottom, and the stuffing that came out measured about 1/4" x 1/4" inch, but I gather it needs to be at least 5/16" if not 3/8" to make the seal. For the sake of a little scientific experiment, I'll first replace the packing and see if that eliminates the problem completely--and then I'll add the zerk for the sake of lubing the rudder post if nothing else. I plan to use Green Grease. The boat is 51 years old and has made it this far without a grease fitting, so I imagine I should be fine!

 

[Christian Williams]

That rudder tube stuffing box/gland/packing is specific to the application. Unlike a prop shaft stuffing box, it cannot be "tightened" or the pressure on the packing changed. The flax is put in and then the unit is closed up. The metal-to-metal seats firmly.

That's why I think grease plays a part, and can actually fill the space and preclude the need for new packing in some cases. On some/many Ericsons, the quadrant (radial) has to come off to access the gland, which is an awkward job.

Also, we have reports of the packing gland unit itself detaching from the fiberglass rudder tube. In that case the unit leaks not from the packing but from the failed seat of the bronze unit. The bronze packing gland unit installed by the factory is held in place by 5200 adhesive.

I have been told this was done to create a "floating" seal--because rarely were the tube and the shaft in exact alignment, given the layup techniques of the era. Such a seal allows the packing box to find its own true as the rudder shaft is installed.

For the record: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/rudder-gland-repack-and-reseal-new-zerk-installed.167/

 

[WindHorse]

That rudder tube stuffing box/gland/packing is specific to the application. Unlike a prop shaft stuffing box, it cannot be "tightened" or the pressure on the packing changed. The flax is put in and then the unit is closed up. The metal-to-metal seats firmly.

That's why I think grease plays a part, and can actually fill the space and preclude the need for new packing in some cases. On some/many Ericsons, the quadrant (radial) has to come off to access the gland, which is an awkward job.

Also, we have reports of the packing gland unit itself detaching from the fiberglass rudder tube. In that case the unit leaks not from the packing but from the failed seat of the bronze unit. The bronze packing gland unit installed by the factory is held in place by 5200 adhesive.

I have been told this was done to create a "floating" seal--because rarely were the tube and the shaft in exact alignment, given the layup techniques of the era. Such a seal allows the packing box to find its own true as the rudder shaft is installed.

For the record: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/ubs/rudder-gland-repack-and-reseal-new-zerk-installed.167/

Thanks for the additional insight, Christian. If the "metal-to-metal seats firmly," then I suppose I need to figure out exactly which size flax to use. The stuff I pulled out was intact, but clearly wasn't making a tight seal (it measured about 1/4" x 1/4". I was thinking of taking some 3/3 and hammering it out a bit to make it rectangle instead of square, thereby squeezing more against the rudder shaft as the plate gets tightened... I gather by your comments that this may exceed the design parameters...

Yes, I did have to remove the quadrant, which was a real pain in the *ss, but such is boatwork!

 

[ignacio]

I need to figure out exactly which size flax to use. The stuff I pulled out was intact, but clearly wasn't making a tight seal (it measured about 1/4" x 1/4".

I disassembled the stuffing box and changed the flax on mine a few months ago. There were two sizes of flax in there. One was 1/4", and the other was 3/8" (I think). I still have some of each left on the boat. I'll go check this weekend. Each of them was placed in a channel of the top collar that looks like it was meant to have that size flax. In retrospect, I probably didn't needed to change it - it's prime function seemed to be preventing metal-on-metal grinding (rudder post to bronze collar), and as a secondary water barrier.

If you look at that picture in post #10 above, you can see that the ID of the rudder tube is larger than the ID of the top collar and the bottom bushing. When the rudder is installed, that leaves what looks like a 1/4" cavity between the inside wall of the tube, and the outside wall of the rudder post. Seems that filling this area with grease is the first and greatest barrier to water ingress, and any grease inserted 50 years ago would have long ago lost its ability to act as a barrier.

Still wonder why they didn't install fittings for grease injection on the 35-II. Whatever the reason, adding a zerk fitting and injecting plenty of grease is what solved my water ingress problem in this area.

 

[WindHorse]

I disassembled the stuffing box and changed the flax on mine a few months ago. There were two sizes of flax in there. One was 1/4", and the other was 3/8" (I think). I still have some of each left on the boat. I'll go check this weekend. Each of them was placed in a channel of the top collar that looks like it was meant to have that size flax. In retrospect, I probably didn't needed to change it - it's prime function seemed to be preventing metal-on-metal grinding (rudder post to bronze collar), and as a secondary water barrier.

If you look at that picture in post #10 above, you can see that the ID of the rudder tube is larger than the ID of the top collar and the bottom bushing. When the rudder is installed, that leaves what looks like a 1/4" cavity between the inside wall of the tube, and the outside wall of the rudder post. Seems that filling this area with grease is the first and greatest barrier to water ingress, and any grease inserted 50 years ago would have long ago lost its ability to act as a barrier.

Still wonder why they didn't install fittings for grease injection on the 35-II. Whatever the reason, adding a zerk fitting and injecting plenty of grease is what solved my water ingress problem in this area.

I gather, from various responses on this thread and others, that there are different sized "top plates" out there, including those like yours that take two different sizes. Mine most definitely only has one channel for about 1/4" (or maybe 5/16"). Strange, since both of our boats are 35-2's, but yours was made 9 years after mine. Perhaps they improved the design by then...

 

[WindHorse]

Update: installed packing and zerk fitting as follows:

packing: 5/16” fit perfectly

zerk: installed toward the top so I didn’t have to worry about water ingress. First, I drilled about 3/8” with 25/64 bit and then went all the way through with 1/8 bit, seeing as that’s all that’s necessary for the grease passage, and if anything ever came lose, it wouldn’t be much of a leak... the big inset was the perfect diemter to be able to screw in a 1/8 in MIP brass fitting, which fit really secure and didn’t bulge the fiberglass, but I still used thickened epoxy to encase it. I used a 90 deg elbow so the zerk would be angled toward my access point. I’m using a 1/8 MIP zerk fitting for now, but if I decide to extend the access point, it will be easy to do... Filled it up with a full cartridge of Green Grease.

 

[Christian Williams]

Looks strong. Full cartridge of grease--very satisfying!

 

[WindHorse]

For anyone following, I’m happy to report that it worked! Prior to the fix, my bilge pump was cycling 30-40 times/hour while under sail or motor (yes, I have a counter on it). This weekend, after 6 hours underway, cycles = 0!!! I’ll never know if the stuffing alone would have done the job? But my guess is that the grease will make it last longer if nothing else... Very satisfied.