About a year away and need advice

[Ed Orlando]

I used to subscribe. It was OK compared to most magazines. Nowadays I really prefer Practical Boat Owner from the UK. Also, Good Old Boat is a great read.

Thanks, Loren. Ed

 

[kapnkd]

I am going to get back to sailing and sailboat ownership in about a year. I have been poking around the Ericson website for a few months and really appreciate how much folks who contribute to this site care and know about their Ericsons and sailing. I am writing for advice from any and all. I envision sailing mostly in the Chesapeake for a couple of years and eventually coastal cruising in New England, and potentially the Caribbean when retired. Mostly I will sail with my wife, but also foresee single handing, and the occasional party of 4-6 people including me for short stints. I have owned several s-boats in the long ago past and have bareboat chartered in Florida and the Caribbean mostly 10 or so years ago, so I consider myself to be of seasoned beginner to intermediate ability/knowledge.

Currently, I am thinking about an E-38 (possibly E-35, but I may not fit) or similar length Island Packet.

Some important considerations for us:

I am 6’4” tall and think I may fit in an E-38 and would fit in either IPY. My wife enjoys sailing, but neither of us are racers, we are more the cruising type. That said, I appreciate a boat that gets me there faster. She prefers a less lively, more stable sailboat.

I understand the keel and rudder, hull shape/freeboard differences in the boats and their affects on sailing upwind/downwind and moving around a marina, anchor, or in relatively shallow water.


Knowing that all yachts are a compromise among speed, comfort, and price, I am hoping some of you will weigh in on my understanding gathered so far:

E-38 can be tender at first and then becomes stable after heeling and the IPY is quite stiff or resistant to healing. This is assuming same wind/wave conditions and seamanship of the captain.

E-38 would be better at sailing to windward and in light winds, but it may be a little challenging in following seas. IPY would not sail as close to the wind, may not sail (very well) in light winds, and would track better overall but especially in following seas.

Most E-38s for sale seem to be the longer, approximately 6’ fin keel, and the IPYs all are approxmately 4.5’ modified full keel. I understand that the keel shape and depth are some of the most important drivers of sailing characteristics. How important is this difference and should I limit us to looking at modified keels in the E-38 (wing and bulb)?

How about the gear drive steering of the IPY vs. cable drive of the E-38 and most wheeled steering systems?

The staysail/jib combo of the IPY vs. the more standard sloop rig of the E-38?

It seems IPYs are a little more expensive, but as company is still building boats, a younger boat could be bought which would save time, money, and effort restoring an older boat. To me, it is first things first. Assuming you can buy one or the other, the most important questions are about the sailing characteristics of these two very different designs. My feeling is that E-38 is a faster, more attractive yacht and would be great under most conditions I would sail under (hopefully). My feeling is my wife would prefer the sailing characteristics of an IPY. Does anyone have experience on both boats (I don't and hope to correct that)?

Thank you in advance for your advice!

Ed

A fellow boater at our Ford Yacht Club In SE Michigan has an E-38 he may be putting on the market. He bought it from his brother and both, being Detroit Diesel engineers, have maintained the boat meticulously. His brother had added a bulb of sorts to the keel to stiffen up the boat before he and his wife sailed out the St Lawrence, out to Nova Scotia, down to Boston (I think) and trucked the boat back home to Michigan.

Not sure of the year but it’s in good condition. If you’re interested, I can double check with him about his intent to sell it??

 

[Ed Orlando]

Thank you for thinking of me and for the offer, Kapnkd. I am not at that stage yet. I have a lot of local research I need to do first.

Wow, that is some adventure your friend and wife did. I would like to talk to him about his impressions of the boat and how adding the keel bulb affected the sailing, if he is willing.

Good weekend,
Ed

 

[kapnkd]

Thank you for thinking of me and for the offer, Kapnkd. I am not at that stage yet. I have a lot of local research I need to do first.

Wow, that is some adventure your friend and wife did. I would like to talk to him about his impressions of the boat and how adding the keel bulb affected the sailing, if he is willing.

Good weekend,
Ed

Certainly, ...I will contact him and let him know of your request to contact him. (After selling his boat, I’m not sure he ever joined or follows the EYO site.)

Fair Winds!
kerry

 

[Ed Orlando]

Great and thanks, Kerry.

Ed

 

[Christian Williams]

For Ed. Yeah, the videos ramble. The second video here probably comes most quickly to the point.

 

[Ed Orlando]

Thank you, Christian! Appreciate the commentary especially the one where you are sailing at the same time. Too funny!
I will pick up Nigel Calder's book. I forgot about him. Remember being impressed by the detail in some book(s) of his years ago.

What do you think of the periodicals, Practical Sailor, Practical Boat Owner?

Ed

 

[Christian Williams]

They're useful to people in accord with how useful they are. It varies with exhaustion. It is the fate of all periodicals to endlessly repeat the same stuff, periodically. I no longer subscribe to anything, although I once could not wait for PS to arrive.

 

[Mr. Scarlett]

Nigel Calder's book

Can't say enough good things about this book.

 

[Rocinante33]

Ed,

If you haven't already, be sure to read Christian's comments about his Hawai'ian voyage and back. His comments include some about the boat itself, 2nd post of the thread, last paragraph, in particular. He seems to address some of your questions about the E-381 although not vs. the Island Packet. It is kind of an apples to oranges comparison, IMHO.

After-Action Report, Ericson 381 Hawaii Cruise 2021

The noon position reports are here: click on the marker for log entry. https://www.olmsteadwilliams.com/christians-journey/ Overall this 6,000 nm sail was characterized by aggressive trade winds in the frequent 30-knot range, and by a fair-weather gale on the return. Cape Horn self-steering...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Joliba]

Ed,
Back to your original questions (I just began reading this thread today)---
I sail a 1988 E38-200 with a wing keel. I think this would be great for the Chesapeake, but much modification would be needed for live-aboard cruising. Storage for a live-aboard couple is limited. Nonetheless, many couples have figured out ways to do it. There is no factory installed windlass. You would need to install one, as many on this forum have described, or buy one that some previous owner had already added. Though our wing-keeled boat sails well and matches all of your presumed characteristics of the E38, I would be concerned about what to do after a grounding. A fin-keeled boat can be heeled over to reduce the draft. A wing keel is like a giant anchor. With full-time Caribbean sailing, a grounding in sand is very probable at some point. The 5' draft is nice, though. For Caribbean sailing, I'd favor the 6' fin over the shoal draft versions for the slightly better windward performance.

I once chartered an Island Packet 44 in the Caribbean many years ago. We had to start the motor or backwind the jib to tack in a choppy seaway. But otherwise it was a very comfortable, luxurious boat to live aboard and sail. It drove like an unstoppable freight train on a broad reach. There were 2 heads (one more than desirable) and even a bathtub in one of them. The IPs are very solidly constructed and have a stable, dry bulletproof feel in the ocean.
Please feel free to ask me any specific questions about my experience with the Ericson. I'm very happy with mine.
Mike Jacker

 

[Ed Orlando]

Hi Mike,

Sorry this took me so long to reply. It has been a busy past week. Thank you for your reply!

If we live aboard it would be weeks at a time and not full-time. For the first few years it will be weekending on the Chesapeake.

How tender is your boat in gusty 15-20 knot winds? Offshore, does it heel significantly? How would you describe? Have you sailed a lot offshore?

About IPY-44 your chartered. Was this at from a charter boat company I think in St. Thomas? I know I have seen one with a fleet of IPYs and thought that might be a good idea to combine a vacation with some research!

Ed

 

[Ed Orlando]

Ed,

If you haven't already, be sure to read Christian's comments about his Hawai'ian voyage and back. His comments include some about the boat itself, 2nd post of the thread, last paragraph, in particular. He seems to address some of your questions about the E-381 although not vs. the Island Packet. It is kind of an apples to oranges comparison, IMHO.

After-Action Report, Ericson 381 Hawaii Cruise 2021

The noon position reports are here: click on the marker for log entry. https://www.olmsteadwilliams.com/christians-journey/ Overall this 6,000 nm sail was characterized by aggressive trade winds in the frequent 30-knot range, and by a fair-weather gale on the return. Cape Horn self-steering...

ericsonyachts.org

Thanks, Keith and apologies for sluggish reply. Been busy the past week or so. I did catch CW's comments about the E-38 being a sound boat even after what he experienced. I don't expect to cross to HI or maybe the Atlantic equivalent. I expect to coastal sail mostly and at most cross the Sound to Nantucket or the Gulf Stream to the Bahamas. I agree the boats are very different, but that is kind of the point (for me anyway). I like both boats (that may sound contradictory, but I am a seasoned beginner at best), and am trying to get an armchair understanding of the sailing characteristics of the two boats. I came to like IPYs 35 yrs ago when I found a 31 that my 6'4" frame could stand up in. I considered living aboard when I got my first 'real' job. I could tell they were well built and well equipped, but did seem to have a bit of windage. Opted for a house instead of a IPY. That might have been one of those proverbial forks-in-the-road and I did not have take the one less traveled.

Only because of CW's videos and ericsonyachts.org ( you all ) am I even thinking about an Ericson. They are good lookin' boats outside and inside and everyone admires how they sail. I expect most IPY owners would tell me they like the looks and sailing characteristics of their boats. I am trying to learn what I can from your opinions about the sailing characteristics of your boats, while planning to visit some in person and eventually get on the water in both.

Ed

 

[Joliba]

Hi Mike,

Sorry this took me so long to reply. It has been a busy past week. Thank you for your reply!

If we live aboard it would be weeks at a time and not full-time. For the first few years it will be weekending on the Chesapeake.

How tender is your boat in gusty 15-20 knot winds? Offshore, does it heel significantly? How would you describe? Have you sailed a lot offshore?

About IPY-44 your chartered. Was this at from a charter boat company I think in St. Thomas? I know I have seen one with a fleet of IPYs and thought that might be a good idea to combine a vacation with some research!

Ed

Hi Mike,

Sorry this took me so long to reply. It has been a busy past week. Thank you for your reply!

If we live aboard it would be weeks at a time and not full-time. For the first few years it will be weekending on the Chesapeake.

How tender is your boat in gusty 15-20 knot winds? Offshore, does it heel significantly? How would you describe? Have you sailed a lot offshore?

About IPY-44 your chartered. Was this at from a charter boat company I think in St. Thomas? I know I have seen one with a fleet of IPYs and thought that might be a good idea to combine a vacation with some research!

Ed

Ed,
The IPY-44 was from Island Yacht Charters in Redhook on St. Thomas. It was 25-30 years ago in the early 1990s.
The E38-200 never heels excessively, quickly finding her stable comfortable position of moderate heel. The leeward rail is never awash in flat water.
By about 18 knots of steady wind I generally reef the main even when flying a 100% working jib. With the large Genoa I am definitely reefed at that point. She lets you know when it’s time to shorten sail. With the proper sail combination she is a pleasure to sail. If overcanvassed with a following sea steering can get squirrely. But this is easily remedied by reefing.
I have sailed our boat in Lake Michigan for 12 seasons, but not offshore in the ocean. To learn how the E38 sails offshore you may wish to check with other current and past contributors to this forum including Christian Williams, Rbonilla, and Ryan L. My ocean passages have not been in Ericsons.
Good luck.
Mike