Adding lead to my 1967 30' E

[Sailblue7]

I am thinking of adding weight to my keel. On my boat the trailing edge of my keel is hollow and I could probably fit about five gallons of water down there or equivalent lead pellets. Has anyone done this? Sounds alot easier than adding a keel blub (around 2k) but haven't determined how much lead will fit and whether that amount of weight would make any difference. This might mean reinforcing the trailing edge of the keel as there really isn't alot of material there, I have reglassed this edge once before.
Paul

 

[PDX]

A member named Dwayne Salisbury, on his public page, has a picture of the Ericson 30 line drawing in profile. I tried to link it but the system wouldn't let me. But if you go there and check it out you notice that the lead fill in the keel occpuies about 75% of the keel and has the same shape (raked forward and trailing edges) as the keel itself. I suspect there were design reasons for that having to do with the weakness of the exposed trailing edge (as you mention).

I don't see how you could beef up the trailing edge without altering the keel shape (it gets quite skinny back there) and possibly the keel profile as well. Even ata 2K investing in the bulb might be easier and less risky.

 

[Loren Beach]

Here's the drawing

I dragged it to my desktop, rotated it 90 deg, and re-saved it.
:nerd:
(Unfortunately, I could not put in more resolution than there was already, tho.)

Loren

 

[PDX]

Thanks, Loren.

Any chance you could drag the drawing, and the other two pages of E30 info at Dwayne Salisbury's page, to the E30 section of the downloads area? Those things are about the closest I have seen to an actual "manual" for the original E30.

 

[Loren Beach]

Best to have the originator contact Sean for direct u/l instructions.
Or you could route your idea to Sean.
Regards,
Loren

 

[Sailblue7]

Thanks for the drawing, that is exactly what I have. Now what was interesting when I stripped the bottom paint and sanded the bottom a couple of years ago I found that the trailing edge were simply layers of glass converging from both sides of the keel and to my dismay they were delaminating. I could stick a knife in between them. No wonder my keel kept filling up with water. If I added lead to that space I was going to grind off the paint again and reinforce it even more than I just did. I wonder what a 5 gal bucket of lead pellets would weigh? I guess I could bring a scale to my local gun shop and pack a bucket with bags of pellets to get an idea. I don't think it would be near enough to make a difference.

 

[Loren Beach]

Cavity Filling / Lead Keel Dentistry

Thanks for the drawing, that is exactly what I have. Now what was interesting when I stripped the bottom paint and sanded the bottom a couple of years ago I found that the trailing edge were simply layers of glass converging from both sides of the keel and to my dismay they were delaminating. I could stick a knife in between them. No wonder my keel kept filling up with water. If I added lead to that space I was going to grind off the paint again and reinforce it even more than I just did. I wonder what a 5 gal bucket of lead pellets would weigh? I guess I could bring a scale to my local gun shop and pack a bucket with bags of pellets to get an idea. I don't think it would be near enough to make a difference.

Not sure why you believe that the boat needs any extra ballast... but low down is the place for it.
Since other owners here have commented in the past about adding some thickened epoxy to the bottom of the aft keel cavity to forestall any water seepage from a grind-y grounding, perhaps you could:
1) do all the repair and reinforcement on the outside so that the trailing edge is secure and solid, and then
2) fill, in small batches, from the inside with epoxy and lead shot. Maybe bring it up halfway or so? Further?

Do you have good access to that cavity from the top to be sure it is clean and dry for new resin to bond to?

Interesting project idea.


Be sure to post up photos of the work as it progresses.

Fair winds and Non-Tsunanious seas,

Loren

 

[Randy Rutledge]

AeroMarine products suggested using epoxy wetted sand as a filler and said that it would not heat up as solid resin and would add a small amount of weight and give a sealed fill that would not absorb water as concrete or high density foam would. I am planning to fill the lower half of the deep bilge on my E-29.

 

[bigd14]

I have been considering this fix too on my E27. Does anyone know how much epoxy it takes to wet out, say, a gallon of sand? A cup or so??

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Look at the pebble paving page on the AeroMarine site. One gallon covers 50 sq ft with 100 LB of 1/4'' pebbles. This would be about 1 cubic foot but would not be completely filled between the pebbles. I would think a gallon would be required or more per cubic foot. I will do a test tomorrow with a small batch of epoxy if what I have isn't bad, and then post the results.

http://www.aeromarineproducts.com/

 

[Sailblue7]

Well I love my boat but I find in winds above 25 it feels just too tender even with the right amount of sail. I guess it doesn't help that I have been on my friends Baba 30 which doesn't care what the wind is doing. I know my E is never going to be a 13000lb thirty footer but I wouldn't mind a bit more secondary stability. Basically crossing one of the straits here in the San Juans in 30 knots is like sailing in surf and I want to try to improve the comfort level. Thanks for all the imput. I may not do it until I can afford to replace all the standing rigging too, who knows how old all the current stuff is.

 

[Randy Rutledge]

I mixed a batch of epoxy and sand today as I promised. I used 2/3 cup of epoxy mix and blended in sand until the mix was a very thick paste. The mix made 2 cups or one gallon would make three gallons. Remember that one cubic food is just over seven gallons. (Polyester resin is also a possibility and cheaper)
My guess is that three gallons would fill the deep bilge on the e 29 to a depth of 12’’ based on an estimate of the bilge being 6’’ wide tapering to a point 18'' back.
You can fill the deep bilge with water to the level you want and then pump out the water into a container and calculate the number of gallons you need.

Sailblue7,
You could add lead shot to epoxy and when the lead is at a maximum add sand to fill the areas between the lead to maximize weight and minimize cost. One cubic foot of lead if memory serves me correct is 708 LBS. my guess would be around 200 LBS of shot would fit in three gallons.