Best way to repair the cockpit floor without removing the rudder

[Calikid75]

Hey everyone. I have a 1972 E27 that a previous owner added wheel steering to and I'm going back to tiller only. I need to repair the holes where the pedestal was mounted and beings it looks like they used silicone for sealant have found some damp spots. Of course they are right around the tiller head. O know the best option would be to haul her out drop the rudder and do the repair but being on the central coast in CA that is not a budget friendly option with only 1 DIY yard that practically charges the same as having the work done.. so I'm trying to figure out a way to do it still in the slip... What would y'all suggest? Pics or vids of the how to would be greatly appreciated...

 

[Christian Williams]

Golly. I would seal the holes and create a circular cover, perhaps of some fake deck non-skid material, or perhaps of plastic or other impervious material.

Sized to cover the outermost holes, just countersunk screws into the cockpit floor.

No one would ever know it wasn't a design feature except you.

And the forum can keep a secret.

Fixing soft core cockpit sole is a miserable job I'd try to avoid unless the integrity of the steering mount is affected.

 

[Calikid75]

Golly. I would seal the holes and create a circular cover, perhaps of some fake deck non-skid material, or perhaps of plastic or other impervious material.

Sized to cover the outermost holes, just countersunk screws into the cockpit floor.

No one would ever know it wasn't a design feature except you.

And the forum can keep a secret.

Fixing soft core cockpit sole is a miserable job I'd try to avoid unless the integrity of the steering mount is affected.

The tiller mount itself feels ok but I know the wood right next to it is wet and the strange part is after pulling the pedestal that was aft of tiller the floor squeaks now between the tiller and the companion way lol..

But I do like the ease of just making a cover plate haha.. or maybe a drop in pocket for a table stand

 

[Christian Williams]

Got a photo of the underside? If the core is all soaked, further ideas may generate.

 

[gabriel]

I also like the idea over a cover (g10 plate 1/8” comes to mind), but I would also probably first glue some fiberglass rods through the holes to stabilize the outer laminate with the inner to make up for rotten core. Grind smooth and cement plate on top.

If you can also get a plate on the inside that would be even better.

 

[Calikid75]

Got a photo of the underside? If the core is all soaked, further ideas may generate.

Well can almost see the bottom of the cockpit ...

 

[Christian Williams]

The general idea is to figure out if the cockpit floor is still strong enough. It may be balsa cored, which when soaked looses its function to reinforce the sandwich of glass. Or maybe it's plywood. Or maybe Ericson did something else in 1972.

Soft core is mushy undrfoot as the top layer of fiberglass depresses. Take some implement, a screw driver or stiff wire, and probe the insides of the holes. If the probe goes in and brings out wet glop, it means wet core. How far the wetness penetrates determines the type of fix.

Perhaps with more info and photos the forum can provide guidance, since this sort of thing is pretty common on our old boats.. For what it's worth, I don;t think this is a haulout thing, rather work to be done in the cockpit.

 

[Calikid75]

The general idea is to figure out if the cockpit floor is still strong enough. It may be balsa cored, which when soaked looses its function to reinforce the sandwich of glass. Or maybe it's plywood. Or maybe Ericson did something else in 1972.

Soft core is mushy undrfoot as the top layer of fiberglass depresses. Take some implement, a screw driver or stiff wire, and probe the insides of the holes. If the probe goes in and brings out wet glop, it means wet core. How far the wetness penetrates determines the type of fix.

Perhaps with more info and photos the forum can provide guidance, since this sort of thing is pretty common on our old boats.. For what it's worth, I don;t think this is a haulout thing, rather work to be done in the cockpit.

I need to get some better pics when I go tinker this weekend... But right at the tiller mount there is bare ply about 1/4 inch wide before the fiberglass skin that is wet.. where the pedestal bolts and the hole for the cables looked/felt dry and as if was well sealed internally with epoxy.. It's between the tiller head and companion way that the glass is intact but sounds like might be delaminated..

I'd like to do it right and recore the whole thing in one shot. That's where Google was being confusing since one search would say the head is all that holds the rudder in and then vaguely described a way to leave the mount as an island and just repair around it.. And in another query says can just pull it up for the repair.. I don't want to find out the hard way that it is all that holds it in and that it doesn't have enough flotation not just drop out and sink if I remove a wrong bolt lol... I did post a pic of the area in general and of the shaft and I believe the packing gland that is down by the quarter berth

 

[bigd14]

If I remember my 27 correctly the tiller head is the only thing holding the rudder in place, but I think a workaround is possible: it looks like there is a hole in the rudder post just above the packing gland which I would bet goes all the way through. Stick a long bolt in there and it should prevent the rudder from dropping out. You could also use a couple hose clamps to stop it from dropping out. Then you can do a proper repair by removing the tiller head and the tiller plate. I would cut the entire top sheet of the cockpit off in two or three pieces leaving a two-three inch tab all around the outside that you can glass the new top sheet into. It’s unlikely the existing top sheet will come out cleanly, but if the rot is bad enough you might get lucky and be able to reuse the pieces (put a layer of 1708 biaxial cloth over the top to tie it together). Dig out the core and replace it with balsa except use G10 around the rudder plate area (use a slightly thicker piece of G10 than the core to replicate the raised area for the tiller plate) then epoxy 3 layers of 1708 biaxial cloth over the top, fill it and fair it, apply paint/gelcoat/nonskid over the top and call it a day!

Also, it is not possible to do the core repair from underneath. There is a fiberglass liner that sites under the lower cockpit skin. You would have to remove the liner first, and fight gravity and a confined space.

 

[AK67]

If you think it's sufficiently sound for now, I'd drill out the existing holes to a larger size and fill/plug with epoxy. I'd also reattach the tiller deck plate with butyl tape. Being from New England, I'm not sure: do you haul out for the off season? At next haul out, I'd drop that rudder post and inspect more fully. Bigd14 sounds like the most detailed and sound advice. Once you start the deck work, this has the potential to mission creep and you could lose much of the season. I'd want to be on the hard to do that job.

 

[Calikid75]

If I remember my 27 correctly the tiller head is the only thing holding the rudder in place, but I think a workaround is possible: it looks like there is a hole in the rudder post just above the packing gland which I would bet goes all the way through. Stick a long bolt in there and it should prevent the rudder from dropping out. You could also use a couple hose clamps to stop it from dropping out. Then you can do a proper repair by removing the tiller head and the tiller plate. I would cut the entire top sheet of the cockpit off in two or three pieces leaving a two-three inch tab all around the outside that you can glass the new top sheet into. It’s unlikely the existing top sheet will come out cleanly, but if the rot is bad enough you might get lucky and be able to reuse the pieces (put a layer of 1708 biaxial cloth over the top to tie it together). Dig out the core and replace it with balsa except use G10 around the rudder plate area (use a slightly thicker piece of G10 than the core to replicate the raised area for the tiller plate) then epoxy 3 layers of 1708 biaxial cloth over the top, fill it and fair it, apply paint/gelcoat/nonskid over the top and call it a day!

Also, it is not possible to do the core repair from underneath. There is a fiberglass liner that sites under the lower cockpit skin. You would have to remove the liner first, and fight gravity and a confined space.

This sounds like the plan... And yes that hole does go all the way through it's from the bolt that was used to anchor the quadrant for the wheel steering.. So between sticking a long bolt through and throwing a couple hose clamps around as well I think that it'll work.

 

[Calikid75]

If you think it's sufficiently sound for now, I'd drill out the existing holes to a larger size and fill/plug with epoxy. I'd also reattach the tiller deck plate with butyl tape. Being from New England, I'm not sure: do you haul out for the off season? At next haul out, I'd drop that rudder post and inspect more fully. Bigd14 sounds like the most detailed and sound advice. Once you start the deck work, this has the potential to mission creep and you could lose much of the season. I'd want to be on the hard to do that job.

I'm in the Monterey Bay area so we don't really have a true off season lol.. and either way with only having about 1-1.5 days a week I can tinker the list of projects and required funding will take me well into the winter before can actually take her out again anyways lol. The fun of a $1500 sailboat.

 

[frick]

Bend a nail, put it in a drill. Work in bent nail into a screw hole. Give it a spin.
If the wood comes up dark and spongy you have some wood rot in the deck.
Work you way around all the screw holes and do the same.
If it not too bad just will them all with epoxy.

 

[Christian Williams]

Just sail the boat. No $1500 boat is perfect. Just sail the thing.

 

[bigd14]

Just sail the boat

Spot on! More fun and less $$ that way.

 

[Calikid75]

Just sail the boat. No $1500 boat is perfect. Just sail the thing.

That is in the plans been using a 9.9 outboard while working on the 5416 but last time out as I was going up to pull the luff down to drop the sail (track was sticky) the wind caught the sail and blew it in my path so grabbed the leech to move it over and ended up with a couple of long vertical tears right at the leach .. so figured would do all the rest of my random projects before footing the bill for a new main lol

 

[Prairie Schooner]

That is in the plans been using a 9.9 outboard while working on the 5416 but last time out as I was going up to pull the luff down to drop the sail (track was sticky) the wind caught the sail and blew it in my path so grabbed the leech to move it over and ended up with a couple of long vertical tears right at the leach .. so figured would do all the rest of my random projects before footing the bill for a new main lol

We're in New England with a distinct sailing season. Our first full year with the boat we didn't get in until mid-August, due to massive projects. We were paying for three months of a mooring ball and launch service that we didn't use. And paying for yard storage while we worked. Some projects are just too big to button up and go sailing. A right of passage for owners of old boats, it seems. On discouraging days my mantra is, "Just keep moving the rock forward." Good luck with it all, Cali.
Jeff

 

[Calikid75]

We're in New England with a distinct sailing season. Our first full year with the boat we didn't get in until mid-August, due to massive projects. We were paying for three months of a mooring ball and launch service that we didn't use. And paying for yard storage while we worked. Some projects are just too big to button up and go sailing. A right of passage for owners of old boats, it seems. On discouraging days my mantra is, "Just keep moving the rock forward." Good luck with it all, Cali.
Jeff

Yup I keep moving the main rock forward and kicking the little peebles to the side then pause on the big ones and catch the little ones back up haha...

I wish this area had a reasonable priced DIY/storage yard so could just haul it and really be able to get stuff done.

 

[Christian Williams]

When you get a minute add a Signature line, like Jeff has. They post automatically.

Member name (top of page)/Signature. Lets everyone know location, boat model, engine and so on.