Boatyard project advice...

[jacksonkev]

I recently sold my 1971 E29 Valhalla and am now in the process of purchasing a 1981 30+.

She's in great shape but she's due for bottom paint and the signature navy stripe could use a repainting. I thought I would polish and wax the hull and paint the stripe myself while she's in the boatyard and I'll leave the bottom painting to the experts.

I'm looking for any suggestions with the most efficient way to tackle the project. The boat is about an hour from my home so I'd like to do it with as little back and forth to/from home and to stores as possible. I'm interested in what's the best order of tasks, what products work best, what is the best method with respect to ratio of time/outcome, etc.? There are so many suggestions on the internet, that it's overwhelming.

I'd say the hull doesn't need an aggressive compounding...from Google research, I think it falls in the "light oxidation" category.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Frank Langer]

Congratulations on buying the E30+! I hope it gets finalized to your satisfaction. We have owned a 1984 E30+ for almost nine years and love the boat. It is easy to manage and sails exceptionally well in a wide range of winds.

Based on my experience in owning three boats over the last 21 years, I have my favourites for cleaners, wax, paint, bottom paint. I'm sure others will also give you their advice, and then you can decide for yourself.

I try to do as much of the work on our boat as possible, partly to save money but more importantly it allows me to become good at maintenance, ensure the work is done carefully to my satisfaction and makes it more likely that I can fix a problem if it occurs while at sea.

Although time or local regulations may be reasons for having the boat yard do the bottom paint, in my experience they charge alot for a job that isn't difficult if you can do it yourself. Any loose or cracked paint needs to be removed by scraping or sanding until you get a good surface. Then taping the boot stripe with masking tape and applying two coats of a compatible bottom paint by roller goes quite easily. I prefer Interlux CSC Micron which is a sloughing ablative paint so it doesn't build up coats like epoxy paints would--they are hard to remove in the future.

After a light sanding, the boot stripe can be painted with Interlux bootstripe paint, an enamel which is available at most chandleries and comes in small quantities and is easily applied with a brush. I suspect that any good exterior enamel would do equally well, but this one is made for boats/marine environment. Even so, it will need to be touched up or redone every few years because the boat waterline gets alot of wear from wave action.

You could wash the cockpit, cabin top, decks and hull topsides with Starbright deck cleaner using a bristle brush on the deck and a cloth on the rest. I dilute it a bit with water ( about 50%). Do this before the bottom is painted as you don't want this dripping down onto the new bottom paint. When dry, I use Meguiar products as I find them best and widely available. For light oxidation, I would use their #50 Cleaner/Wax which removes light marks and leaves a decent shine. If you like, you could apply a coat of their #56 Wax as a second coat to improve UV protection and add to shine a bit. If you are very particular, you could polish it with Meguiars #67 Polish before you apply either the #50 or #56, but it is more aggressive than the #50. If you do the #67, I would not do the #50 as that becomes redundant, and instead do one or two coats of #56 wax after the polish. I have good luck with microfibre cloths for buffing it.

I would do the washing first so you don't have water and cleaner dripping onto your new boot stripe and bottom paint. Then I would do the polish and wax, so as not to disrupt the boot stripe if you miss with your wax cloth. Then I would sand the boot stripe, prepare the bottom for bottom painting. Then I would paint the boot stripe and finally the bottom paint, two coats of each. While it's drying you could check/lubricate thru hulls, replace zincs, clean the prop and all the other stuff that one does when hauling the boat.

That should get your new boat looking pretty nice!

Frank

 

[dt222]

Frank's advice on the boot stripe s right on target.

As far as compounding/waxing, I swear by the advice in this link:

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117266&#post706131

Good luck!

Don

 

[Frank Langer]

Yup, Maine Sail is absolutely one of the true experts on this site. Following his advice will definitely make your new boat shine, but it will take time.
Frank

 

[jacksonkev]

Thank you Frank!

This is exactly the kind of practical advice that I needed. Much appreciated!

And thank you for the encouraging words about our new 30+. I'm having a hard time sleeping. It feels like Christmas Eve and I know that shiny new Schwinn 10 speed is waiting for me downstairs! Although, this boat could use a shine!

One quick clarification...I'm going to be repainting the stripe just below the rub rails not the boot stripe. For my own clarification...is this referred to as a "cove stripe" or "accent stripe" or something else? And does anyone know what the original Ericson color is? Navy blue? Flag blue?

Also, I'm going to run around the boat on hands and knees and clean up all of the deck hardware, stantions, teak (oiled but weathered and dingy) and the rub rails, etc. I've read both very positive and negative reviews about using Softscrub w/bleach. Any thoughts about using this home product (once) as a general more abrasive cleaner to remove some age? Or is there a better plan in your experience?

And since we're talking about cleaning...I'm thinking about cleaning/reconditioning the sails. They are only about 6 years old without a lot sailing days in them. So, they're nice and crunchy but are dirty and a little moldy.

Thank you again in advance...and hopefully my childish excitement isn't too over the top. I realize I should probably just sail her and get used to her until tackling all these cosmetic projects but I enjoy a proud looking boat!

Cheers!

 

[Loren Beach]

Thank you Frank!

This is exactly the kind of practical advice that I needed. Much appreciated!

And thank you for the encouraging words about our new 30+. I'm having a hard time sleeping. It feels like Christmas Eve and I know that shiny new Schwinn 10 speed is waiting for me downstairs! Although, this boat could use a shine!

One quick clarification...I'm going to be repainting the stripe just below the rub rails not the boot stripe. For my own clarification...is this referred to as a "cove stripe" or "accent stripe" or something else? And does anyone know what the original Ericson color is? Navy blue? Flag blue?

Also, I'm going to run around the boat on hands and knees and clean up all of the deck hardware, stantions, teak (oiled but weathered and dingy) and the rub rails, etc. I've read both very positive and negative reviews about using Softscrub w/bleach. Any thoughts about using this home product (once) as a general more abrasive cleaner to remove some age? Or is there a better plan in your experience?

And since we're talking about cleaning...I'm thinking about cleaning/reconditioning the sails. They are only about 6 years old without a lot sailing days in them. So, they're nice and crunchy but are dirty and a little moldy.

Thank you again in advance...and hopefully my childish excitement isn't too over the top. I realize I should probably just sail her and get used to her until tackling all these cosmetic projects but I enjoy a proud looking boat!

Cheers!

Sounds like you are "bonding" with your boat!

That stripe just below the rail is often called the cove stripe, but other names might be equally fine. On an Ericson I believe that the original was gel boat, but I could be wrong. Our Olson has a tape cove stripe with lots of little nicks and nibbles, and someday when I get a "round tuit" I do want to replace it. (Factory got it absolutely straight, and I am not sure that I can do the same!)

As for cleaning the cabin/deck fiberglass, we use Softscrub (with bleach) about once a year. Fine bristle brush and it's a chore - get some knee pads.
But we have a LOT of dampness and the mold likes to get started.... to make matters worse, we moor under the glide path for PDX so there some jet exhaust to combine with the dust and rain.... and..... (sigh).
We always pressure the whole boat in the fall just before the water lines are shut off and drained for the winter.

Sail "reconditioning" has a poor reputation. My understanding is that you can do all that's needed (without hurting the fabric or seams) by washing and rinsing them yourself with a very mild soap and a soft brush and lots of rinsing. To protect your sail from additional dirt or abrasion you could put down a huge and cheap plastic tarp on your driveway, IMHO.

I hope that your boat looks great after ifs "spa treatment" !


Loren in rainy Oregon

 

[Frank Langer]

JacksonKev,

I know that stripe as the "cove stripe" and it's much easier to paint than the bootstripe at the waterline because you don't have to worry about a run-in with the anti-fouling bottom paint. One caution, though, is that dirt and algae tends to accumulate at the joint between the rub rail and the cove stripe, so be sure to clean that seam very carefully before you paint.

If you decide to proceed with your bleach cleaner, be very careful to avoid getting any on any colour pieces--dodger, varnished handrails, cove and boot stripes, etc. as the bleach may discolour them. If you have access to a pressure washer it can do a good job and many boaters use them; however, be careful around fittings to not use so much pressure to blow out the bedding compound and create leaks. I personally avoid using a pressure washer for that reason, and just scrub and polish til my arms get tired.

I agree completely with Loren (another of the real experts on this site! ) regarding getting the sails cleaned--North Sails recently advised me again when I asked them about any new cleaning process, to avoid doing this if possible as it degrades the sailcloth. At most I would do a gentle scrub with a mild detergent, being careful to not scrub hard on any seams so as not to damage the thread. If they haven't been checked by a sailmaker in a while, that may be a good idea to ensure the threads haven't degraded due to UV damage.

Also, while sailing these boats is very enjoyable and addicting, take time to crawl into all the spaces in the boat to gradually learn about the electrical, plumbing and mechanical components. When I bought our boat I discovered various areas that needed repair or attention even though the surveyor missed them. You mentioned in a previous post that you have owned boats before; but if you are not very familiar with maintaining boat systems, the best manual in my opinion is Nigel Calder's Electrical and Mechanical Maintenance Manual which is still widely available and will save you time and money in the long run.

Above all, enjoy your boat and take good care of her--they are worth it!

Frank

 

[Christian Williams]

Right, and before you paint the cove stripe, try to bring it back. It's probably gel coat, and no matter how faded a good hull waxer can often bring it back to nearly new with a sequence of compounds and polishes. You can do it yourself, although I had no luck--but a professional did.

If painting, I claim to have discovered the closest match to the original Ericson "teal" (my word) blue cove and boot top stripe: Awlgrip Aristo Blue. I now have a painted boot top and a renewed cove stripe, and the colors are indistinguishable.

 

[jacksonkev]

Sounds like you are "bonding" with your boat!

That stripe just below the rail is often called the cove stripe, but other names might be equally fine. On an Ericson I believe that the original was gel boat, but I could be wrong. Our Olson has a tape cove stripe with lots of little nicks and nibbles, and someday when I get a "round tuit" I do want to replace it. (Factory got it absolutely straight, and I am not sure that I can do the same!)

As for cleaning the cabin/deck fiberglass, we use Softscrub (with bleach) about once a year. Fine bristle brush and it's a chore - get some knee pads.
But we have a LOT of dampness and the mold likes to get started.... to make matters worse, we moor under the glide path for PDX so there some jet exhaust to combine with the dust and rain.... and..... (sigh).
We always pressure the whole boat in the fall just before the water lines are shut off and drained for the winter.

Sail "reconditioning" has a poor reputation. My understanding is that you can do all that's needed (without hurting the fabric or seams) by washing and rinsing them yourself with a very mild soap and a soft brush and lots of rinsing. To protect your sail from additional dirt or abrasion you could put down a huge and cheap plastic tarp on your driveway, IMHO.

I hope that your boat looks great after ifs "spa treatment" !


Loren in rainy Oregon

Thank you Loren! I'm going to take a conservative tact on cleaning the sail. Sudsy water with a soft brush on the lawn in front of my marina.

 

[jacksonkev]

Right, and before you paint the cove stripe, try to bring it back. It's probably gel coat, and no matter how faded a good hull waxer can often bring it back to nearly new with a sequence of compounds and polishes. You can do it yourself, although I had no luck--but a professional did.

If painting, I claim to have discovered the closest match to the original Ericson "teal" (my word) blue cove and boot top stripe: Awlgrip Aristo Blue. I now have a painted boot top and a renewed cove stripe, and the colors are indistinguishable.

Thank you Christian,

The Awlgrip Aristo Blue recommendation looks dead on! I, unfortunately, don't think I can restore the cove stripe. The original owner (before the current one) taped off and painted an ugly (to my eye) 2 inch wide, baby blue "pinstripe" the entire length of the cove stripe (see photo). He must have had another 30+ next to him in the marina and after a few Dark 'n Stormies got on the wrong boat one too many times. Haha.

So, my plan is to sand down the DIY pinstripe and reapply (Awlgrip Aristo Blue) to look like new. Thoughts?

A few things about the photo...she's an '81, after looking around at a couple of 30+'s, I noticed that the later models have a boom that is higher off the cabin top. Does anyone here have any thoughts about that? Also, the spar is white instead of the black Kenyon spars. Same same?

Cheers,

Kevin

 

[jacksonkev]

JacksonKev,

Also, while sailing these boats is very enjoyable and addicting, take time to crawl into all the spaces in the boat to gradually learn about the electrical, plumbing and mechanical components. When I bought our boat I discovered various areas that needed repair or attention even though the surveyor missed them. You mentioned in a previous post that you have owned boats before; but if you are not very familiar with maintaining boat systems, the best manual in my opinion is Nigel Calder's Electrical and Mechanical Maintenance Manual which is still widely available and will save you time and money in the long run.

Above all, enjoy your boat and take good care of her--they are worth it!

Frank

Thank you again Frank,

I owned an 1971 E29 Valhalla (my first boat...see pics) for the past 14 years and got to know Nigel Calder (& Don Moyer) more than I care to remember!

Coincidentally, I sold that boat about a year ago and when I was poking around this forum for the 1st time in over a year, I stumbled upon a thread about my old boat. Unbelievable! I'll attach a link, but the nutshell story is that we were dismasted in SF bay a year and a half ago and I sold it on Craigslist at a loss. I didn't have the time or energy to take on that scope of project and I had already been looking around for a newer boat when the rig came down. It's sad because it looks like the guy bought and maybe sold it...but she looks like she could use some love. She was a proud boat in SF bay for the time I owned her and for her first 43 years.



Here's the link to the other thread.

 

[Frank Langer]

Hi Kevin,

Wow, that's an experience I never hope to have! Although it's tough to lose the mast and then the boat, at least it sounds like no one was hurt. And now you have an even better boat!

Thanks for posting a pic of your new boat. Just a thought about that cove stripe...I can see why you don't like that baby blue--it's just not right for an Ericson! :0 But have you thought about trying some gentle paint remover to remove that baby blue and reveal the original cove stripe underneath. If it wasn't sanded maybe it can be restored like Christian suggested. If so, that would be better than painting, as painting will always need to be redone down the road, whereas gelcoat can be more easily buffed and restored. Just a thought....

Frank

 

[jacksonkev]

Hi Kevin,

Wow, that's an experience I never hope to have! Although it's tough to lose the mast and then the boat, at least it sounds like no one was hurt. And now you have an even better boat!

Thanks for posting a pic of your new boat. Just a thought about that cove stripe...I can see why you don't like that baby blue--it's just not right for an Ericson! :0 But have you thought about trying some gentle paint remover to remove that baby blue and reveal the original cove stripe underneath. If it wasn't sanded maybe it can be restored like Christian suggested. If so, that would be better than painting, as painting will always need to be redone down the road, whereas gelcoat can be more easily buffed and restored. Just a thought....

Frank

That's a great idea...any tips on the best way to remove the pinstripe paint? It looks like the person just taped it and brushed on some paint. It's raised and a bit sloppy. While we're talking about it. I also wanted to redo the Ericson helmet emblem. It's been worn away. Thoughts? And what do you think about having the registration sticker and numbers on the hull instead of the stripe? I'd like to do it all at once then sail instead of another painting project!

 

[Frank Langer]

Hi Kevin,
I don't have any further advice on removing the paint--maybe a good paint store would have a paint remover that would be gentle enough to not damage the underlying gelcoat and yet strong enough to remove the paint.

Regarding the logo, I recall that there is a template somewhere on this site that one can print off and take to any print shop to have them make a logo in whatever size you want out of vinyl like the lettering they sell. Maybe Loren or one of the real experts can direct you to where to find it. If that doesn't work, maybe you can take a picture of the logo and the print shop could work of the picture to make one for you.

I put the name and license number on the cove stripe in white lettering and it looks good there--license at the bow, name and Ericson log at the stern, both sides. There are regulations on the size--I think at least 3 1/2 inches high or something like that to meet Coast Guard or whatever rules.

Frank

 

[Christian Williams]

Regarding the height of the boom: here is a sistership[ (1981 30+). attachmentid=15700&d=1422733528&thumb=1[/IMG]

Got any more pictures? Seems to be an obvious difference, unless the sail covers are confusing me.

 

[jacksonkev]

Regarding the height of the boom: here is a sistership[ (1981 30+). attachmentid=15700&d=1422733528&thumb=1[/IMG]

Got any more pictures? Seems to be an obvious difference, unless the sail covers are confusing me.

Not yet...but it definitely seems lower than this one. You are right about the sail cover and the possible illusion. I'd be curious to measure the height of the gooseneck off the deck versus later models. There's a good chance the difference is in the topping lift or maybe the cut of the sail on this one. I've heard that some sails were made with a longer leech to increase sail area. Dunno?

 

[jacksonkev]

Hi Kevin,
I don't have any further advice on removing the paint--maybe a good paint store would have a paint remover that would be gentle enough to not damage the underlying gelcoat and yet strong enough to remove the paint.

Regarding the logo, I recall that there is a template somewhere on this site that one can print off and take to any print shop to have them make a logo in whatever size you want out of vinyl like the lettering they sell. Maybe Loren or one of the real experts can direct you to where to find it. If that doesn't work, maybe you can take a picture of the logo and the print shop could work of the picture to make one for you.

I put the name and license number on the cove stripe in white lettering and it looks good there--license at the bow, name and Ericson log at the stern, both sides. There are regulations on the size--I think at least 3 1/2 inches high or something like that to meet Coast Guard or whatever rules.

Frank

Thanks Frank, I may lean on the boatyard for some advice about the paint removal.

 

[dt222]

You might try some rubbing compound on the pin stripe to see if it will come off with that (without harming the gelcoat underneath). As far as color for the cove, I know on the E27 I have seen a variety of colors, not sure if it is the same on the 30.

DT

 

[jacksonkev]

Regarding the height of the boom: here is a sistership[ (1981 30+). attachmentid=15700&d=1422733528&thumb=1[/IMG]

Got any more pictures? Seems to be an obvious difference, unless the sail covers are confusing me.

It might be camera trickery...I can't find any notes on a change on the internet but stopped at after a simple search.

If anyone else knew if Ericson made a change to it's boom heights, I'd love to know. Anecdotal evidence might suggest that when they switched to black Kenyon spars and cabin top travellers, they may have tinkered with their specs.

Here's another angle of my new boat Cetus!

 

[Christian Williams]

It may be that your Previous Owner liked to take the mainsail slugs off the mast, so as to drape it over the boom as is the practice of some new yachts. And the sail cover is designed for that ( detaching the main from the mast for storage makes the sail stack much lower).

No worries, just trying to understand what I'm seeing.