Bottom Job turning into nigtmare

[Jarod]

Ok here we go...

I bought this 74 27 ericson knowing it had blisters and that i would have to deal with them. Here is my current situation:

I have sanded off the bottom paint and have now encountered what i beleive to be interlux barrier coat (light grey coating )with a light green filler of some sort below it. This green stuff is thin and soft can be scratched with a fingernail... I began on one side sanding away the interlux and Green stuff beneath to the extremely thin gelcoat or what I believe to be gelcoat underneath ...it is white with a blue color underneath it. This is becoming more work than i want to continue with and the costs are mounting as I can only work wkds on the boat and the yard is charging me big bux. I do not have the cash to do a bottom job even if i thought it was worth it, which I dont as the boat only cost 11000 bux and a bottom job would probably run me 8000 and the boat wont be worth a cent more. So i guess my question is do i continue to sand down to the thin gelcoat (a quarter of the boat is already done but still a ton of work) or do i just leave the interlux and grind out the blisters and fill with epoxy....and re-barrier coat the exposed gelcoat on the hull before applying bottom paint?? the boat came from san diego and is now in vancouver, bc my hope is the cooler waters will slow the blistering process and i can just maintain by fixing a few a yr...they are no larger than a quarter and only two went beyond the chopped strand layer and they were not to far in. Oh also there was a hole at the rear of the keel about a quarter inch in diameter it looks like it goes right through to the hollow keel, can i just fill with epoxy and filler?

Any comments will be much appreciated. I am leaning towards just filling the blisters and barrier coating the exposed thin gelcoat area with epoxy and monitoring for the nxt couple of yrs til i know the boat.

thanks

 

[NateHanson]

What about getting a price to have the hull walnut-blasted, or look into doing it yourself with a rented pressure pot sand-blaster. That's what I'm looking to do this spring on my Columbia 26, and I expect it to cost about $300 for the rental and buying a few hundred pounds of walnut husk blasting media.

It sucks to get in over your head, but I'd hate to come as far as you have already, and then do a band-aid job.

Also, I'd be suprised if having the whole bottom professionally blasted, filled, faired, and barrier coated would cost $8000. We paid about that to have our 38 footer with extensive boat-pox done here in Boston three years ago.

 

[windjunkee]

Jarod,

We pulled our recently purchased 1970 E-32-2 from the water last July. The idea, of course, was to prep the bottom ourselves and then to have the yard spray the paint on. We used Pettit Trinidad bottom paint because of its characteristics of being very hard and the ability to be burnished to a very smooth finish -- perfect for the racing we do with her.

What we found was what appeared to be 35 years worth of layer upon layer of old bottom paint. The whole bottom surface had ridges and folds. It was UGLY. We had power sanders and scrapers but the work was overwhelming. I spent the better part of a week ignoring my job and trying to get the bottom done. I couldn't get the job done and finally hired the yard to finish the job. It added about $1000 and a day's worth of labor for two guys to take all the old bottom paint down to the gelcoat. The whole job, including 8 days in the yard, cost about $2800.

By the way, I bought two gallons of the Trinidad paint from WestMarine for about $20/gal less than they were selling it at the yard for, and the yard charged me a $50/gal "corking" charge for me supplying my own paint (my term, not theirs). It was a $60 lesson.

Hope you're having fun though.

Jim McCone
"Voice of Reason" E-32-2 Hull #134

 

[Jarod]

Hi Nate,

Those are canadian bux remember only worth 80% of your US dollar. I hate to do a bandaid repair as well but it may be neccessary as I cannot spend anymore on the boat... it took some slick talkin on my part to convince my other half to buy the boat in the first place. I guess at this point I want to know what my best option short of an expensive peel job would be. Its not just the rental of the blaster etc..... its the time I dont have as I work full time and the yard costs mount daily. I am also doing thru hulls, new head, new fuel tank etc so as you can see the costs add up. "Hole in the water" would be accurate .....if it was in the water.

thanks again

 

[Emerald]

Ok here we go...

[snip] I am leaning towards just filling the blisters and barrier coating the exposed thin gelcoat area with epoxy and monitoring for the nxt couple of yrs til i know the boat.

thanks

I think your final thoughts are appropriate for the boat and where you are. Finish what you started, yeah, so it's half done - who cares, you're not showing this thing for awards and you're not racing it to the n'th degree. You will have made a start that you can pick back up on if you feel it is necessary. The E-27 I used to own had a good case of gelcoat blisters in the forward quarter below the water line. They were hard, they never changed, and when all done, they were free (I never touched 'em) Two surveyors and multiple people in the business looked at them and all shrugged and said I could spend lots of money doing a bottom job or go sailing. They also pretty unanimously agreed these had probably occured some time ago and to just keep an eye on them and they would probably be stable. Through 2 seasons this proved true, and then I found myself buying a bigger boat, and was quite happy I had done other work instead (like all new thru-hulls and seacocks and an A4 repower).


Can you post a picture of the hole in your keel? I really would like to see it before throwing in my .02 on it.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[Jarod]

thanks for the comments everyone....this site is a great resource and i am glad to have access to it. i do not plan to race the boat and as long as the hull is solid i dont care that it looks perfect....my intent would be just to slow any further progression....i have the bottom paint off and down to the grey interlux coat that a prior owner must have attempted...and as i said a quarter of the hull is down to thin gelcoat....which i will recoat with some epoxy....the boat has good points ...a great interior and a recently rebuilt A4 the bottom is my main concern other than the neglected thru hulls...i will try and get a pic of the small hole in the keel...does anyone know if i poured water into the bilge if it would leak out of this hole in the keel...i guess what iam really getting at is ...was water getting in this hole into the boat?? it is at rear of the keel about 1 inch in and about 6 inches from the bottom of the keel. I will try and get a pic soon.

thanks again

 

[jmoses]

Get 'er done

Just curious.....did a surveyor look over the boat before you bought it? Was it out of the water at the time of purchase? IF a competent surveyor looked over it he/she should have advised you on the situation. I realize many folks don't think surveys are important when buying a boat, but this is a case where it would have been well advised......by knowing what you are getting into and how to solve it (or not). Please don't take offense, but I see this often.

So here's a surveyor's advice......

Short of doing the bottom now and spending lots of $$$$, do the bottom in sections at a time (i.e. 1/4 of the hull @ each haul out). There's not much to do other than what you are doing. Unfortunately, it sounds like the prior owner (P.O.) had no clue what he/she was doing !?!?!

9 times out of 10, a case of the boat pox is nothing more than a cosmetic situation. Since the boat was 'relatively' inexpensive it's not worth putting much more $$ into it except to make it safe and reliable - spend your money on new sails and inflatable PFDs. My suggestion would echo the comments of EMERALD "Finish what you started" then 'wrap it up' and go sailing. Then, each time you haul, if inspired, grind out the major blisters and fill with epoxy/barrier coat and overcoat with bottom paint. Blisters rarely impact the boat structurally and trying to undo the P.O.'s mess sounds like more than it's worth. Let's face it, a 1974 27 Ericson is worth about $9,500 -$10,000 in good shape, anything less than decent drops to ~ $7,500 -$8,000 with one in need of renovation hovering around $6,500-$7,000.

As for the hole in the keel? Hmmmm.... that raises the hair on my neck..... But without looking at it I'm in the dark. Most Ericsons have encapsulated lead keels and a hole in the exterior may allow water into the keel void. Is it weeping water out of the hole now? One way to find out of the keel void is full of water is to drill a couple small holes (1/8 -3/16") through the laminate below the 'hole' and work downwards to the very lowest section of the keel and see if water comes out (should only take maybe 3 holes). If it does drip water, you may be dragging extra ballast around. Also, tapping the keel area with a rubber hammer will reveal if it is water logged but that's for a trained ear. If it's full of water, then it will have to be drained, dried out, and sealed well to prevent any further damage/water entry (i.e. time and money). The blisters I could live with, a hole in the keel laminate I could not.

If the drill holes do not reveal any water in the keel void, then fill the drill holes with epoxy and repair the 'hole' as well as you can (grind out and fill with fiberglass/epoxy, barrier coat and bottom paint). Then count your blessings.

By the way, since you are paying the yard, ask the manager his/her opinion about it. Better yet, if you see a surveyor, ask them as most will give a few mintes of free advice (i.e pro bono work)

Yes a picture would help.

John M.

 

[evm]

By the way, I bought two gallons of the Trinidad paint from WestMarine for about $20/gal less than they were selling it at the yard for, and the yard charged me a $50/gal "corking" charge for me supplying my own paint (my term, not theirs). It was a $60 lesson.

A corking fee is charged when you bring your own wine into a resteraunt. (Typically you will not be allowed to bring something that they serve)

I can see where they have adopted the term but the fee does appear high!

 

[Sean Engle]

Yard Costs & Ripoffs

No offense meant to anyone here - but I always enjoyed hauling out - but not if I have to hire someone from a yard to do any of the work...

The only time I paid someone to do work (prep and paint the bottom), they charged me a fortune - and as for supplying your own paint - charged me for for two gallons - and you know the bottom of a 35-3 uses only about 1.5! What a rip-off...

The last time, I did it myself, I took the extra 1/2 gallon and recoated the leading edges of my keel, rudder, etc. until it was all gone. It felt really good knowing what was down there - knowing that it was done right and at the lowest possible cost.

It's really too bad (about the first time), because they created ill feelings in me - and when people ask me about that yard, I won't reccommend them.

//sse

 

[wurzner]

Bottom Job

I had Cory who is based out of seattle use a gelplanner to strip my bottom. It cost about 800 dollars and took less than 2 yours. The end result was a VERY fair bottom that I let dry for 6 months, even though it didn't change the readings too much. It did, however, exibit very little moisture, if any at all, when I place a vapor barrier over the hull so I think it was fine. The end result was, it was very easy to complete the bottom job following the gelplanner. A porter cable electrical D/A sander suspended from a bungee cord and I knocked it out really quick. My 77 had no less than 1000 blisters, but they were all very superficial and a none issue.

Things are never as bad as they seem, sit back and contemplate the project over a cold molson or two, and dig in. I found it to be a very easy task and aside from the 150I spent on the D/A Sander, the Gelplanner was worth every cent I spent. Cory's cell number is (206) 930-3968. I'm not sure if he goes over the boarder since that may pose a problem, but maybe he knows someone up there who can provide the service if your interested.


Good Luck!
shaun

 

[escapade]

keel hole

Jarod
I had a similar type of hole/delamination on my '75 E27. It was caused by the water left in the bilge by the PO. I noticed it while working on the outside (inside a building) with lights and went in the cabin for something. Noticed a "glow" coming from the bilge (cover was off) and could see light coming thru the laminate! NOT GOOD!!!
I used heat lamps to dry out the inside of the bilge "well" at the back of the keel. drilled some holes as previously recommended and let it dry out as good as possible. Be careful with the heat lamps as you don't want it to get too hot. A 100 watt bulb is plenty in an enclosed area.
After it was dry I filled the drilled holes with epoxy, ground away the exterior gel coat until it was sound, applied a couple layers of glass cloth and then barrier coated both the outside AND inside of the "well" area. I had no further problems after that for the 4 years I owned the boat.
BTW, I have barrier coated 3 Ericson's myself (with the help of the Admirless!). Yes, it's a lot of work but once it's done it's done if you do it right. Don't get freaked by the scope of the job, just take it 1 step at a time. Sounds like you've got the worst almost done already. I would finish preping it, fix the keel area (that WILL sink your boat if you don't), barrier coat it and sail it! If you find a couple blisters pop next year just fix them. Interlux 2000/2000E is a very user friendly product which I've had good luck with, FWIW. Hope this helps you out.
Have fun & sail fast
Bud E34 "Escapade"