Bottom Paint Brand Recommendation?
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Steve Swann
Member III
Bottom Paints
There are a couple items needing answers first before any recommendation can be given:
> Salt water or fresh?
> Warm climate or cool?
> Racing or not?
> In the water full time or hauled in-and-out?
> Where you live might have influence on what you can even purchase.
Each of these factors will play a huge role in what you ultimately end up with.
There are a couple items needing answers first before any recommendation can be given:
> Salt water or fresh?
> Warm climate or cool?
> Racing or not?
> In the water full time or hauled in-and-out?
> Where you live might have influence on what you can even purchase.
Each of these factors will play a huge role in what you ultimately end up with.
Steve Swann
Member III
At the bottom of my knowledge pit
Omgirl,
You just exhausted my supply of practical knowledge of the subject of bottom paints. I am hoping some of our saltwater guru's out there will help you, but I know they will need the information you just supplied.
I sail off a trailer and have elected to strip off all the bottom paint and go with a slick hard bottom, dark blue. I considered one of the hard slick antifouling bottom paints formulated specifically for trailer sailers, then asked, why? Heck, we aren't in the water for more than a few days or a week at a time. As a result I have more problems with cleaning and maintaining a shipshape appearance at my waterline stripe than with the local varieties of flora and fauna wanting free rides.
Good luck, and take heart; there will be someone very knowledgeable coming along shortly to help a damsel in distress.
Steve
E25 Seahorse
Omgirl,
You just exhausted my supply of practical knowledge of the subject of bottom paints. I am hoping some of our saltwater guru's out there will help you, but I know they will need the information you just supplied.
I sail off a trailer and have elected to strip off all the bottom paint and go with a slick hard bottom, dark blue. I considered one of the hard slick antifouling bottom paints formulated specifically for trailer sailers, then asked, why? Heck, we aren't in the water for more than a few days or a week at a time. As a result I have more problems with cleaning and maintaining a shipshape appearance at my waterline stripe than with the local varieties of flora and fauna wanting free rides.
Good luck, and take heart; there will be someone very knowledgeable coming along shortly to help a damsel in distress.
Steve
E25 Seahorse
Rob Hessenius
Inactive Member
Bottom Paint
Omgirl, My recomendation for you would be West Marine CPP. The paint is a ablative paint, single season, the paint will not build up year after year. Good amount of copper and a good price too. Just my opinion. Rob Hessenius
Omgirl, My recomendation for you would be West Marine CPP. The paint is a ablative paint, single season, the paint will not build up year after year. Good amount of copper and a good price too. Just my opinion. Rob Hessenius
Based on your answers I would suggest an ablative such as Interlux ACT, or a much pricier multiseason paint such as Interlux CSC. I only say "such as" since I don't swear by Interlux. I swear when I'm prepping the hull for painting. I've had good results with ACT on the Chesapeake Bay for 9 years. Your region is relevant and the Practical Sailor articles (www.practical-sailor.com) address that matter somewhat.
The thing I like about the CSC solution is it's still supposed to work if your boat is hauled every winter. You do need to rough it up again before it goes in the water to activate it but that can be done with a pressure washer.
If you really want to study this decision, I suggest that you look up the antifouling paint reviews in the Practical Sailor magazine. They do an anitfouling testing article every year now. For 10 bucks you can download the latest article on anitfouling. It's an excellent rag but it too is pricey (no ads but great content).
-- neal
The thing I like about the CSC solution is it's still supposed to work if your boat is hauled every winter. You do need to rough it up again before it goes in the water to activate it but that can be done with a pressure washer.
If you really want to study this decision, I suggest that you look up the antifouling paint reviews in the Practical Sailor magazine. They do an anitfouling testing article every year now. For 10 bucks you can download the latest article on anitfouling. It's an excellent rag but it too is pricey (no ads but great content).
-- neal
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NateHanson
Sustaining Member
For our area, omgirl, a multi-season is the only way to go in my opinion. Our season is shortish, and the cold water doesn't allow too much growth, so it's essential to have a paint that won't be deactivated when the boat sits on the hard. It's more expensive, but you'll ultimately use less of it, because you can just freshen it up every year or two with another coat on top (once you put on an initial 3-5 coats). The paint won't lose potentcy during the winter, and cheaper paints become completely ineffective after just a couple weeks exposed to the air.
I use Interlux Micron CSC, for what it's worth.
Nate
I use Interlux Micron CSC, for what it's worth.
Nate
wurzner
Member III
I've had very good results with Trinidad SR. It is most likely the most expensive, but you will likely get 2-3 seasons out of it. My neighbor just hauled last weekend after 3 years and he had just the onset of hard growth that came off very easily.
This is a very critical decision since going from one style paint to another requires that you either verify the compatability or remove all the old stuff. My new boat has ablative and I will definately stay with that formulation since I typically haul out every 12~16 months because I race and the boat is in the water year around. If I didn't, I'd stay with hard paint.
Make sure to verify the maximum allowable time out of the water and confirm it doesn't degrade the antifouling charactertictics. Ablative may be the best choice if you want to paint every year prior to splash down, likely the best choice albeit the most expensive. The west marine brand for ablatives has received great acolades.
regards
shaun
This is a very critical decision since going from one style paint to another requires that you either verify the compatability or remove all the old stuff. My new boat has ablative and I will definately stay with that formulation since I typically haul out every 12~16 months because I race and the boat is in the water year around. If I didn't, I'd stay with hard paint.
Make sure to verify the maximum allowable time out of the water and confirm it doesn't degrade the antifouling charactertictics. Ablative may be the best choice if you want to paint every year prior to splash down, likely the best choice albeit the most expensive. The west marine brand for ablatives has received great acolades.
regards
shaun
NateHanson
Sustaining Member
Not all ablatives require repainting right before splash down. The top brands are unaffected by air exposure (Micron, for example).
I'd never use a hard paint again, because it means you'll eventually need to scrape/strip/blast or otherwise remove all that old empty paint from your hull. Yuck.
I'd never use a hard paint again, because it means you'll eventually need to scrape/strip/blast or otherwise remove all that old empty paint from your hull. Yuck.
barrier coat ?
Omgirl, does you new boat have barrier coat ? If not I would work it into your budget and schedule in the next few years. Whether or not you're keeping it a long time it is good insurance against blistering issues. Should you develop blistering issues before sale, you'll take a big hit when you do try to sell it.
To do the barrier coat all bottom paint has to be stripped and any blisters repaired. Then the epoxy barrier coat (about 6 layers) is applied followed by the antifouling. There is a schedule for the paint application times, but basically you can do about 3 coats of barrier coat a day for two days and then the first antifouling coat has to go on within 4-8 hours of the last barrier coat depending on temperature.
-- neal
Omgirl, does you new boat have barrier coat ? If not I would work it into your budget and schedule in the next few years. Whether or not you're keeping it a long time it is good insurance against blistering issues. Should you develop blistering issues before sale, you'll take a big hit when you do try to sell it.
To do the barrier coat all bottom paint has to be stripped and any blisters repaired. Then the epoxy barrier coat (about 6 layers) is applied followed by the antifouling. There is a schedule for the paint application times, but basically you can do about 3 coats of barrier coat a day for two days and then the first antifouling coat has to go on within 4-8 hours of the last barrier coat depending on temperature.
-- neal
Rob Hessenius
Inactive Member
CaptnNero
What value does a E-25 have with a barrier coat vs without? If there is no blisters to be found after 30+ years, why worry! Good possible advise, but mind ga ga for Omgirl to think about. Just have him put a simple coat of anti-fouling paint on, t keep the shit off his bottom. PERIOD! Rob Hessenius
What value does a E-25 have with a barrier coat vs without? If there is no blisters to be found after 30+ years, why worry! Good possible advise, but mind ga ga for Omgirl to think about. Just have him put a simple coat of anti-fouling paint on, t keep the shit off his bottom. PERIOD! Rob Hessenius
What E-25 ?
Dear Rob,
I wouldn't worry if it were a 30 year old E-25, but we're not talking about a 30 year old E-25.
It's an E32-200 built in 1990. EXCLAMATION POINT .
It's probably worth about $50K.
Ericsons and other boats of that era had a lot of blisters. I know that from a surveyor that had an Ericson dealership back then. The barrier coat itself doesn't sell your boat but blisters can prevent a sale or cost about $10K in the pricing or to fix.
Note that what I recommended was to schedule the barrier coat "in the next few years", not now.
Blisters are known to be correlated to material quality, manufacturing technique, lack of salinity, temperature of the water, and time in the water. Because a boat doesn't have them now does not mean it won't have them later. Adding the barrier coat is relatively inexpensive insurance against a potential $8K liability later. The barrier coat is not a guarantee but it helps.
-- neal
Dear Rob,
I wouldn't worry if it were a 30 year old E-25, but we're not talking about a 30 year old E-25.
It's an E32-200 built in 1990. EXCLAMATION POINT .
It's probably worth about $50K.
Ericsons and other boats of that era had a lot of blisters. I know that from a surveyor that had an Ericson dealership back then. The barrier coat itself doesn't sell your boat but blisters can prevent a sale or cost about $10K in the pricing or to fix.
Note that what I recommended was to schedule the barrier coat "in the next few years", not now.
Blisters are known to be correlated to material quality, manufacturing technique, lack of salinity, temperature of the water, and time in the water. Because a boat doesn't have them now does not mean it won't have them later. Adding the barrier coat is relatively inexpensive insurance against a potential $8K liability later. The barrier coat is not a guarantee but it helps.
-- neal
Rob Hessenius said:
Rob Hessenius
Inactive Member
CaptnNero
Sorry about that, I thought Omgirl had a early 70's E-25, why, I cant tell you this morning. Yes, I would recommend planning on putting a BC on in the future to protect his investment, both osmotically and financially. Rob Hessenius
Sorry about that, I thought Omgirl had a early 70's E-25, why, I cant tell you this morning. Yes, I would recommend planning on putting a BC on in the future to protect his investment, both osmotically and financially. Rob Hessenius
ted_reshetiloff
Contributing Partner
I'm going with Petit Vivid in white this year. Will spray and burnish for a smooth finish. It is a hard paint that requires cleaning periodically by a diver but will give decent antifouling for 2 years and a slick finish that will improve boatspeed over a conventional ablative. FWIW I have had great luck with West Marines CPP on other boats. It is relatively cheap, lasted almost 2 years, and was easy as hell to sand off when it can time to repaint. 80 grit on my 5 inch DA with shop vac attached, paint came off like it was just dust. I sail mostly on the Chesapeake Bay, but sail all year round.
windjunkee
Member III
Seems everyone just about covered the topic, but thought I would add my experience:
Hauled the boat last summer and put Petit Trinidad on. I and my partners did the old bottom paint removal ourselves. I figured there was 35 years of accummulation on it and the paint itself was dimpled like a golf ball, wavy and uneven. We got it off with a combination of scraping, chipping, sanding and grinding. We then had two coats of Trinidad sprayed on with a third coat along the waterline. We did not wetsand the bottom, but will do that with a quick haulout next month.
We primarily race the boat, so we wanted a hard bottom paint. I put Trinidad on the rudder when I had it reshaped last month and then wet-sanded the crap out of it (400-600-800 grit, in succession) Its smooth as a baby's bottom)
I did all the research and wanted the Interlux Offshore, but that paint is illegal in California.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 hull #134
Hauled the boat last summer and put Petit Trinidad on. I and my partners did the old bottom paint removal ourselves. I figured there was 35 years of accummulation on it and the paint itself was dimpled like a golf ball, wavy and uneven. We got it off with a combination of scraping, chipping, sanding and grinding. We then had two coats of Trinidad sprayed on with a third coat along the waterline. We did not wetsand the bottom, but will do that with a quick haulout next month.
We primarily race the boat, so we wanted a hard bottom paint. I put Trinidad on the rudder when I had it reshaped last month and then wet-sanded the crap out of it (400-600-800 grit, in succession) Its smooth as a baby's bottom)
I did all the research and wanted the Interlux Offshore, but that paint is illegal in California.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 hull #134
Paint rudder light color or make it a storage cover.
Here's a little tidbit that you might want to consider. A common thing that happens on rudders when sitting on the hard is dry blisters. By simply painting your rudder a light color you will reduce the frequency of dry blisters.
Dry blisters happen when the Sun hits a dark painted rudder and heats air trapped in dry spots in the laminate layers. The result is a dry blister as the dry layers separate as the air pressure increases with the heating. For some reason as the air cools later the blisters don't necessarily subside.
Dry blisters should not be ignored. Any air spaces in the laminate invite water to collect and then lead to the dreaded wet blisters, acid formation, and further breakdown of the laminate structure.
One way to repair the dry blister involves drilling a few small holes in the top and bottom of the blister to release the air. That will collapse the blister. The holes shouldn't go all the way into the core of the rudder. They should just be into the laminate. Then you need to carefully inject a very thin expoxy called penetrating expoxy into the bottom hole until it escapes the top hole, plug the bottom hole and inject into the top hole, then plug the top also. Then the holes need to be filled with a water resistant filler before barrier coat and anitfouling.
Validity of the epoxy relamination effort can be tested after drying of the epoxy by tapping such as what a surveyor does to find delamination. It takes some practice but can be done. Surveyors are supposed to use a phenolic hammer so the gelcoat won't be damaged. For a few dry rudder blisters repairs, I've tapped with the plastic handle end of a small screwdriver. The sound difference is hard to describe but obvious when you have both good and bad laminate to compare.
As prevention it is a good idea to paint the rudder a light color such as white or gray regardless of the color of the rest of the boat's bottom. This will significantly increase the reflection of the Sun's light and reduce the absorption of heat by the paint thereby reducing dry blister pressure.
You may even notice some boats on the hard have special loose fitting light colored covers for the rudder itself. These are for keeping the rudder cool also.
-- neal
Here's a little tidbit that you might want to consider. A common thing that happens on rudders when sitting on the hard is dry blisters. By simply painting your rudder a light color you will reduce the frequency of dry blisters.
Dry blisters happen when the Sun hits a dark painted rudder and heats air trapped in dry spots in the laminate layers. The result is a dry blister as the dry layers separate as the air pressure increases with the heating. For some reason as the air cools later the blisters don't necessarily subside.
Dry blisters should not be ignored. Any air spaces in the laminate invite water to collect and then lead to the dreaded wet blisters, acid formation, and further breakdown of the laminate structure.
One way to repair the dry blister involves drilling a few small holes in the top and bottom of the blister to release the air. That will collapse the blister. The holes shouldn't go all the way into the core of the rudder. They should just be into the laminate. Then you need to carefully inject a very thin expoxy called penetrating expoxy into the bottom hole until it escapes the top hole, plug the bottom hole and inject into the top hole, then plug the top also. Then the holes need to be filled with a water resistant filler before barrier coat and anitfouling.
Validity of the epoxy relamination effort can be tested after drying of the epoxy by tapping such as what a surveyor does to find delamination. It takes some practice but can be done. Surveyors are supposed to use a phenolic hammer so the gelcoat won't be damaged. For a few dry rudder blisters repairs, I've tapped with the plastic handle end of a small screwdriver. The sound difference is hard to describe but obvious when you have both good and bad laminate to compare.
As prevention it is a good idea to paint the rudder a light color such as white or gray regardless of the color of the rest of the boat's bottom. This will significantly increase the reflection of the Sun's light and reduce the absorption of heat by the paint thereby reducing dry blister pressure.
You may even notice some boats on the hard have special loose fitting light colored covers for the rudder itself. These are for keeping the rudder cool also.
-- neal
omgirl said: