E35/3 spills when fuelling

gabosifat

Member III
Hello Ericsonians,
Something I keep meaning to bring up, but never have. We’ve had our boat for 15 years or so, and every time we take on diesel, our vent on the transom burps and spits and gurgles. Sometimes to the point of gushing out the vent. We always ask the fuel attendant to lower the flow to minimum, and we fill as slowly as possible. Even then, the vent can spew to the point where it fills the fuel diaper that we’re holding below the vent and can pour down the hull.
1. Anyone else have this problem?
2. Anyone have a fix?
Was wondering if a larger vent line, or larger fitting might help?
Any suggestions would be most appreciated!
Cheers,
Steve
SV Silent Dancer
Gabriola Island BC
 

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Where is your fuel tank? What exactly is the routing path for the vent line to the little vent fitting?
Our model used to have this problem, but I changed the vent hose routing (& straightened it as much as possible) and exit point for the vent and 98% eliminated the overflow/spitting.
 
Last edited:

Sean Engle

Your Friendly Administrator
Administrator
Founder
Yeah, if your vent line has a dip or bend in it, where small bits of fuel can sit, the escaping air pressure during fueling will build until it overcomes the weight of the fuel in the vent line - forcing it out (spitting). Whereas, if the vent line is straight back to the tank, and any fuel in there can drain back, you won't get this (a similar, albeit different issue from the holding tank vent).
 

HerbertFriedman

Member III
I have the same issue on my 87 E34 but I use it as foolproof method of ensuring that the tank is full. I keep track of engine hours and add about 5 gal of diesel every 15 hours of engine running time. I position a bucket over the transom and catch the overflow. No need to lift the bedding in the aft berth to view the fuel gauge and that gauge is never accurate anyway.
 

Christian Williams

E381 - Los Angeles
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
No need to routinely top off the tank.

The logbook shows fuel burn, and I think with a diesel most of us stay about half a tank unless setting off on a long cruise.

When topping off is absolutely necessary, I sit with a rag over the vent and stop the fuel flow as soon as the first spurt appears. But that means a lot of pressure on the tank fittings, especially the fuel sender port, and risks fuel in the bilge unless the engine is run for hours directly after the fill.

Every ten gallons of diesel gives 20 hours of motoring time, or 100 miles at 5 knots. The extra few gallons from topping off is just not necessary with standard tankages of 20-55 gallons.

(The argument that a full tank prohibits condensation and bug growth is unproven, at least to me. Richard Collins, "Maine Sail," declares it misinformation.)
 

Bob Robertson

Member III
Hello Ericsonians,
Something I keep meaning to bring up, but never have. We’ve had our boat for 15 years or so, and every time we take on diesel, our vent on the transom burps and spits and gurgles. Sometimes to the point of gushing out the vent. We always ask the fuel attendant to lower the flow to minimum, and we fill as slowly as possible. Even then, the vent can spew to the point where it fills the fuel diaper that we’re holding below the vent and can pour down the hull.
1. Anyone else have this problem?
2. Anyone have a fix?
Was wondering if a larger vent line, or larger fitting might help?
Any suggestions would be most appreciated!
Cheers,
Steve
SV Silent Dancer
Gabriola Island BC
Hi,
We bought our boat new in 1988. We had that problem up until about a year ago. The problem was the vent hose had a dip in it and the diesel would build up in the hose. When I was getting the tank filled I would hold a towel over the vent outlet on the stern to catch diesel and to keep it from going into the water.
I finally got tired of doing that and shortend the vent hose removing the dip. We now have no problems taking on fuel.
 

Dave G.

1984 E30+ Ludington, MI
I think I've only got fuel at a marina 2 maybe 3 times. Haven't had a problem but I request "X" amount of gallons so never had the tank filled to the brim. When I get down to about a 1/4 tank I generally dump another 5 gallons in with a jerry can and good for another month or more.... :) My tank is on the small side, 18 gallons.
 

N.A.

E34 / SF Bay
FWIW...

Although I have had this too, it has never been so bad that it required multiple rags/diapers. The advice above re: the vent line routing seems useful.

Also:

RACOR makes this, designed to alleviate this exact issue:
(and yes, I learned bout this from Maine Sail, to quote: "I now have an H2Out vent filter and Racor Lifeguard LG100 installed to keep my fuel contents drier when the tank does have fuel in it.")
On which note, H2Out: https://h2out.com/ ; filter mentioned is: https://h2out.com/fuel-guard-avd-2/ )
[I do not run these, but may one of these project days. PS: I bet there is a correct order for these, say LG100 closest to the tank, then H2Out closest to the vent opening to air... that way fuel backing up will get trapped before getting into (and probably ruining the dessicant in) the H2Out.]

Aside: "Maine Sail", who ran Marine How To (https://marinehowto.com/ , lots of great articles still up) had a nasty stroke and the business is now closed, though the articles are still up. And the articles are great (as was he, when I once interacted with him). I would encourage anyone using the site to donate via the 'donate' button... anyone who has met a stroke survivor knows how hard life suddenly has become for them, and at a time when suddenly their ability to earn income has evaporated.)

The reasons I have heard to keep the tank full (I keep mine pretty full; a dockmate tops his up after every single use using a jerry can and pump or siphon. Actually, I know a number of people that never fill at the fuel dock because it is so hard to manage not spilling and everything else, and sailboats burn to little fuel so the volumes needed for a fill can be small. So they top up / fill from jerry cans. My marina prohibits this, and I honor that, but it makes sense to me as a plan.) Why?

1. Growth interface area: The biogrowth in the tank supposedly grows at the fuel-water interface. The smaller that interface, the less area there is for that growth. Topping the tank all the way up leaves only the tiny area of the bottom of the fuel fill line as an interface area. So less growth.

2. Smaller "tank breathing" air volume: As the tank cools at night, the air volume in it will decrease, sucking air in the vent line. That air is moist. The air gets forced out in the AM when the tank warms again, so the tank "breathes." Every time this happens -- every day -- some moisture will inevitably get left behind. That moisture is the eventual source for biogrowth. [N.b.: the H2Out filter is designed to reduce this issue. The fact that Maine Sail uses one suggests to me that he believes in this issue; the article I see from him discusses condensation in an _empty_ tank in the winter in Maine. I suspect the amount of water in the air in a Maine winter is low -- note: not the humidity, which is the fraction of the total water vapor the air can hold at a given temperature, but the absolute vapor pressure of water which drops very fast with temperature. 50% humidity air at 60F has a lot more water in it than 50% humidity at 33F...) -- and so maybe the issue was less evident. And certainly he ran an H2Out on his boat vent line : )

3. Less fuel sloshing to stir up sediment: When I chartered, from a very reputable place, I regularly encountered engine failure due to fuel filter clogging. This place [OCSC, for those who know it] chartered tons, but the engines never ran much because SF Bay has so much wind they were only used to get out of the marina. So the fuel got old, and stuff grew. The failure only seemed to occur on especially rough days, and the staff explained that the resultant sloching stirred up any sediment/etc in the tank, which is why filters clogged only then. If the tank is half-empty, then when it gets rough (and maybe you really want that engine at some point?) the fuel is sloshing like crazy and the fuel will have maximum suspended crud. On the other hand, if that tank is nearly full... very little sloshing and crud will get stirred up less.

So I keep my tank prety full. As always, YMMV.

PS: Biocide: I also fill my tank at the fuel dock, and that fuel has biocide pre-mixed in it. You can (and should) buy and add biocide separately if filing regular diesel (from a gas station), but it is really hard to mix that stuff in correctly (possibly one reason people can get growth) -- read the instuctions; just dumping some in the fuel port before filling is not adequate. If topping up from a jerry can, I would still recommend filling the jerry can from the fuel dock (way more expensive than the gas station, but.. biocide truly properly mixed in.) I do belt-and-suspenders, actually: fuel dock fuel AND biocide in the fuel port before filling : )
 
Last edited:

Loren Beach

O34 - Portland, OR
Senior Moderator
Blogs Author
Topping the tank all the way up leaves only the tiny area of the bottom of the fuel fill line as an interface area. So less growth.
On this one little point: if you regularly fill the tank to the point where diesel fuel lingers in the fill hose, AND your fill hose dates back to the 80's, that older-tech hose will very likely permeate by now and you will note some diesel odor in the vicinity.
We found this to be true for our 1988 fill hose, and replaced it over a decade ago. The new fuel hose standard has an inside non-permeable layer and should not allow this to happen.

Note that permeating is not the same as a leak or a seep. After several years of noticing the odor, I checked the hose by rubbing a towel that had been wrung out with hot water, on the exterior . It picked up the diesel odor immediately. I replaced the old OEM hose and we have never had any fuel odor since. We also try not to fill the tank to the point where fuel will remain in that hose. This echos advice from a diesel mechanic friend with 50 years experience.
 

gabosifat

Member III
Many thanks fellas!
Just got back into cell service, so sorry for the late reply. We cruise long distances for extensive cruising up the BC coast, so a full tank is essential to us, plus we carry an extra 40 litres in Gerry cans. Boat is just coming back from Prince Rupert towards Vancouver area. Will look at vent line when we get back to our home port on Gabriola.
Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions!
Cheers, Steve
E35/3 Silent Dancer
 
Top