E38, R&R headliner hassle level?

[Vtonian]

Anyone R&R'd their original headliner (E38 circa '85) and not think it's that big of a job? It looks like a fairly standard upholstery job, pull the trim and staples, peel it off for cleaning and repairs, then reverse the procedure to put it back, plus the usual gnashing of teeth, pulling of hair. I'm starting to rebed the deck fittings so depending on what's in that can of worms I may not have a choice but if I get lucky (gfaw) maybe I'll just need to pull it down for zipper repairs. Anyway, just trying to get a read on how much I should dread it, or if I should just rip off the proverbial bandaid (headliner) and get on with it. Bottom line, I don't want any more leaks come the rainy season, so time's a wastin'...

 

[Christian Williams]

Mild terror. It's a careful sewing job, given all the zippers--and they're necessary, I think.

I have done only zipper repairs involving minor unstapling of a few square feet. I was able to get that stretched back correctly after two tries. Don't use long shank stainless staples, they're too hard to get out when revising. Use the same standard staples Ericson did, rusts but lasted 40 years.

The terror is the ceiling rails, which were put on after the headliner, I think. Removing them looks awkward, but maybe not (are they through- bolted to the deck grab rails?). And the tie rods for the rigging, which would have to be undone, since they pierce the vinyl. And my bulkheads jam up against the vinyl under the side decks, suggesting they were put in after the headliner. In any case, I could not feed new headliner above them, there's no room.

I consider the Ericson headliner a work of art. Mine is taut, handsome and forgiving to head-bangs after all these years. It may take Michelangelo to replace it, but then we owners are artists too, are we not? And his ceiling was much higher.

 

[Vtonian]

Also, I've seen posts of people replacing with new ones, which would presumably allow some extra material to grab at the edges for stretching,.
And/or people posting about just removing it and using something different for headliner, which I might consider but my head bangs into it all the time so I kind of like the soft padded stuff.
Or just fairing and painting it, which would give a very little back in headroom but sacrifice 100% of the meager insulation value of the fabric/foam construction.

 

[Vtonian]

Mild terror.
Don't use long shank stainless staples...
The terror is the ceiling rails, and the tie rods for the rigging...
In my opinion, the Ericson headliner is a work of art. Mine is taut, handsome and forgiving to head-bangs after all these years. It will take Michelangelo to replace it, but then we owners are artists too. and his ceiling was much higher.

Excellent tips/points, thank you. Hmmm, interesting inspiration, maybe do a smooth panel headliner with a Sistine Chapel vinyl wrap. I might not mind banging my head on that...

 

[southofvictor]

Don't use long shank stainless staples, they're too hard to get out when revising. Use the same standard staples

I had to pull a few feet of staples while pulling wire. I’ve been wondering how best to reattach it. Did you use an electric stapler with the standard staples?

I’ve thought about using upholstery tacks instead of staples. Any reason that wouldn’t work? They’d corrode but just the same
as standard staples.

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.

www.mcmaster.com

 

[Christian Williams]

I have a T40 manual stapler, it has many uses but does wear out your hand with its violent "clunk". Check out electric versions.

The furring strips aren't very deep, so I don't know if tacks would work. And it needs to be a one-handed operation, as you're pulling the vinyl tight with the other hand.

 

[peaman]

Another option is a pneumatic upholstery stapler, either long nose, or short nose.

 

[e38 owner]

I run a furniture upholstery factory for a living. The headliner on our Ericson is a work of art. I have a few rips and it is not something I really want to tackle. They used a lot of staples this project is in the hundreds of hours. Most of the time removing the old ilinervin the right order. Start with removing the edging. Under that the remove the staples around the edges. Then around the cross slats. When cutting and sewing the new fabric I am sure the seans are bowed a little and the zippers have to be sewn well. I think the old fabric would need to come off well enough it could be used as a pattern. When upholstered the edges were left much bigger than what you see. The were pulled tight and even then the excess cut off. A big job

 

[Vtonian]

I run a furniture upholstery factory for a living. The headliner on our Ericson is a work of art... hundreds of hours...
A big job

Well, I don't think we're going to get a more qualified opinion than this.

Rats.

But good to know my secret admiration of it is justified. I mean, you can't really invite someone to take a look below and say, "...teak...salon...blah, blah... but check out that headliner!"

 

[bigd14]

A big job

I had to replace the headliner under the side decks. The sewing of the zipper wasn’t difficult but getting the vinyl properly stretched to avoid wrinkles was impossible with my limited skills. Luckily it’s not super visible. I have had to remove portions of the salon overhead headliner and it is difficult to get it to go back evenly. I couldn’t imagine replacing it and having it look anywhere as good as the original. A work of art, indeed.

 

[Loren Beach]

I run a furniture upholstery factory for a living. The headliner on our Ericson is a work of art. I have a few rips and it is not something I really want to tackle. They used a lot of staples this project is in the hundreds of hours. Most of the time removing the old ilinervin the right order. Start with removing the edging. Under that the remove the staples around the edges. Then around the cross slats. When cutting and sewing the new fabric I am sure the seans are bowed a little and the zippers have to be sewn well. I think the old fabric would need to come off well enough it could be used as a pattern. When upholstered the edges were left much bigger than what you see. The were pulled tight and even then the excess cut off. A big job

I have a little to add, and I agree with the description that a replacement would be a Big Job. Thanks again to e38owner.
There are photos on this site of the new main cabin headliner that a member built for his O-34. It came out really great, but he admitted that it took a lot work and attention. He was able to add/improve zipper access, as well.

In 2021, to do our re-fit, I had to access every single fastener on the inside from bow to stern. I left up staggered short rows of staples to guide me on restoring the headliner. One of the main cabin "fins" came loose completely, and the other one stayed in place. Those "fins" have to be stapled to glassed-in battens across the cabin top. And, absolutely yes about the order of restoration. When EY cut off the excess fabric after stapling, this makes it tedious to do even modest restretching.

Our headliner looks good, IMHO, but I suspect that one more full-access session might its last.
I wish I had taken photos of it hanging down throughout much of the interior. A scary sight for an amateur.

I developed little techniques to get under some parts with an end wrench, and I did have to ask for help to get the center of the traveler bolted down.

All that moaning aside, with all fastening penetrations now epoxy filled and redrillled, future concerns about the coring are nil. No future leak will attack the core.

Edit: more info to chew on: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/headliner-woes-replacement.17445/

 

[Vtonian]

I have a little to add, and I agree with the description that a replacement would be a Big Job. Thanks again to e38owner.
There are photos on this site of the new main cabin headliner that a member built for his O-34. It came out really great, but he admitted that it took a lot work and attention. He was able to add/improve zipper access, as well.

In 2021, to do our re-fit, I had to access every single fastener on the inside from bow to stern. I left up staggered short rows of staples to guide me on restoring the headliner. One of the main cabin "fins" came loose completely, and the other one stayed in place. Those "fins" have to be stapled to glassed-in battens across the cabin top. And, absolutely yes about the order of restoration. When EY cut off the excess fabric after stapling, this makes it tedious to do even modest restretching.

Our headliner looks good, IMHO, but I suspect that one more full-access session might its last.
I wish I had taken photos of it hanging down throughout much of the interior. A scary sight for an amateur.

I developed little techniques to get under some parts with an end wrench, and I did have to ask for help to get the center of the traveler bolted down.

All that moaning aside, with all fastening penetrations now epoxy filled and redrillled, future concerns about the coring are nil. No future leak will attack the core.

Edit: more info to chew on: https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/headliner-woes-replacement.17445/

thanks(?), for more inspirational content. one of the benefits of a previously adulterated boat is the license to freedom from convention and you've confirmed that even Ericsons can be improved upon, or at least resto-modded.

like you, I am also short challenged, but to the point that I already have to duck everywhere, so preserving or losing a fraction of an inch doesn't really matter.

like you, I also would be comforted by knowing that all deck penetrations and damages had been properly serviced.

and like most of us, I know that everything on a boat that is to survive the crusher will need service again and again, so burying maintenance under masterpiece art is illogical.

I think this will boil down to, if I can own the boat long enough to exercise my freedom to choose an alternative, then I think something like pre-upholstered, padded PVC panels held up with unplugged screwed trim would be a functional, attainable and esthetically acceptable adaption.

while not easy, patterning semi-rigid panels is not as hard as restoring the Sistine Chapel. and, FWIW, most of my zippers are corroded, frozen, broken and/or stuck open, so it's not like I'm considering this on a whim. Just fixing the zippers isn't going to be quick or easy.

that said, I do think my decks are in overall good shape and the few current questionable spots can be addressed without a headliner-ectomy, so this can probably go onto the someday calendar.

the proof will come with sailing this season, now the rig has an initial tune, and seeing how things evolve from having her back in service. more shall be revealed...