Ex-factory guy wants to help you

[Seth]

I am a former cust. service/warranty administrator for the Ericson factory.
I ran the factory race program for the Ron Holland 36 & 33, and put together
most of the boats that shipped during 79-82. I am happy to help anyone
looking for sailing tips on all models-especially those. I have 1 item of
interest for now: I have access to the original rudder posts and tooling and can
provide replacement rudders for most models.

Please feel free to ask me about anything on most models. I am also a sailmaker and can help with all performance questions

 

[Gary Peterson]

If you are ever near Grosse Ile, MI (halfway between Toledo, Ohio and Detroit) I would love to show you my 1983 381.
Only issue is leaking non-opening windows. I will need to rebuild them this winter.
Gary Peterson

 

[windjunkee]

Seth,

You forgot to mention you are a GOD too


Hey, Sam just asked me to help him deliver back a brand new, custom built Andrews 50 after the transpac.

Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA

 

[Capt. Max]

Do you have a rudder for an E 27 . My shaft got bent when she came
off the hook in IKE. Let me know, email me if possible.
Thanks

 

[Rob Hessenius]

Capt Max

CM~ I think you will have a better chance asking for help in the For Sale or Wanted section

 

[Seth]

JEEZ...and Capt. Max

Thanks Jim,

I feel like more of a :nerd: than a god...
Who is Sam, and which Andrews 50? Either way, you will have a ball!


Max-Try contacing Foss in California. Website: http://www.boatrudder.com.


You can order a rudder directly from them. They are the OEM for all E-boat rudders..

Cheers,

S

 

[chasandjudy]

sails and info for an E 30+

I am a former cust. service/warranty administrator for the Ericson factory.
I ran the factory race program for the Ron Holland 36 & 33, and put together
most of the boats that shipped during 79-82. I am happy to help anyone
looking for sailing tips on all models-especially those. I have 1 item of
interest for now: I have access to the original rudder posts and tooling and can
provide replacement rudders for most models.

Please feel free to ask me about anything on most models. I am also a sailmaker and can help with all performance questions

Dear Seth:
I could use a little help with sailing the E 30+, I have been sailing my E 30+ fo over 12 years I Have ordered a 150 Genoa for it, being that the upper spreader chaffs the 135 jenny , should I use the inner traveler (track) and have the blaock near the end? as my competition a E 28+ does on his 150 and 180 ? any information you can give on this would be muchly appreciated
I have noted that if I carry only 10 gallons of water and diesel the boat really performs like wow! By the way I found a playboy 1986 magazine in the liner behind the electrical box perhapes you even know, or have an inkaling of who might have left it there.(P.S.) it"s in like new condition . except that the gils in it that used to be to young for my are now all to old for me!

Cordially your Chas and Judy Eden 1986 E 30+ # 720
sv-eden@telus.net

 

[tenders]

By the way I found a playboy 1986 magazine in the liner behind the electrical box perhapes you even know, or have an inkaling of who might have left it there.(P.S.) it"s in like new condition . except that the gils in it that used to be to young for my are now all to old for me!

Cordially your Chas and Judy Eden 1986 E 30+ # 720
sv-eden@telus.net

Sounds like you have the "stripped down" version of the E30. That accessory, listed in the brochure as "portable self-tailing wenches," was included to help counteract the effects of the short mast and flimsy tiller.

 

[Seth]

Sailing the 30+

First, to discuss the 28-I am shocked to hear they are using a 180% genoa for a couple of reasons..

1). Neither the inboard or outboard track are far enough aft to lead a 180% headsail..The inside track is barely long enough for a 150, and only as long as the clew is not too high above the deck. Many people add another 8-10" so they can use a 153-155% genoa, and have some adjustability to drop the lead back at the upper end of the sail's range. The outside track ends even farther forward, so I cannot see how a 180 will ever sheet even close to correctly...
2). Because the 28 is a somewhat tender design, the boat will be WAY overpowered with a 180 (even if it could sheet correctly) by the time you have about 10 KTWS...

For your boat, if you are buying a 150, be sure the sailmaker designs the clew height so you can have full adjustment of the lead position for the entire range of the sail-I don't have the numbers committed to memory, but I think it must be no more than 10" above deck to allow it to sheet correctly when in the mid range of the sail, and still be able to drop it back as you reach the top end. If you run out of track at the top end, you will be backwinding the main excessively and heeling too much (since the genoa leech cannot be "opened" enough by moving the lead aft). Car/Lead position is critical for optimal performance.

For upwind racing, ALWAYS use the inside track (except maybe in extreme conditions and big seas). When cracked off on a reach, you should set up a lead using the outside track (barber hauler)-what I do is put a block on the outboard rail and use a second sheet (even the tail of the original genoa sheet), so you have sheets going to both tracks. By using a spare winch, you can progressively move the clew outoard as the sailing angle gets wider-to the point where once the AWA reaches about 80 degrees or so you are entirely on the outboard lead. Just remember to take off the outboard sheet before you tack!

For your 135, if it is hitting the spreader tip (it should be just touching when sheeted in correctly and in the correct wind range for this sail), first, be sure your car is in the right spot. You can check by sailing along with the sail sheeted in going upwind. Slowly begin to luff (heading up) until the inside telltales begin to break. If the lead is in the perfect spot, the top and bottom sets will break at the same time. But in the conditions where a 135 is desired, I usually set the car just an inch aft of this so the top telltale breaks justs a second before the lowers. This way you are assured of not having the lead too far forward, which is very slow-especially in these conditions. Better slightly aft than too far fwd.

If you have done all this and the leech is mashed horribly into the spreader, you may have to have the leech hollowed out by your sailmaker to allow it to fit better, but do not try to solve this by going to the outboard lead-you are giving up too much upwind performance. When overpowered, do not be shy about dropping the car aft to depower the headsail-this is very effective, and will also help with the leech hitting the spreader..

BUT-with a 150 or 135, if trimmed correctly (and built correctly), the leech should be 1-2" off the spreader tip at the bottom wind range of these sails, and just touching the spreader tip in the mid-upper range..Generally speaking, stay on the inboard track unless you are cracked off on a reach..
If you want, post some pics of the sheet position and spreader tip-I might be able to see what is going on..
Hope this helps. Yep-that was my Playboy!

Cheers,
S

 

[surleau]

Ericson 28 1966-1969 question

I am a new owner of an Ericson 26, circa 1966-69. The hull number is lost and gone forever. How can I find out what my PRHF rating is, my sail size?... and any other question that comes up.

I'm only racing it for fun, but I'd like a new genoa, but don't have any specs.

Can anyone help?

Thank you,
Christine

 

[Seth]

Hard to find

The best I can find will be these: I of 30.8, J of 10.5, P of 26.0, E of 11.0.
You will have to verify this yourself before having any sails made, and the very best thing, ALWAYS, is to have the sailmaker come down and measure the boat-they will not charge you for this-as it protects them as well as you..

This is how they are measured:
"P" is the luff length of the mainsail, measured along the aft face of the mast from the top of the boom to the highest point that the mainsail can be hoisted or black band.
"E" is the foot length of the mainsail, measured along the boom from the aft face of the mast to the outermost point on the boom to which the main can be pulled or to the black band.

"I" is measured along the front of mast from the genoa halyard to the main deck (below the cabin top). Take the tape down to the deck right next to the chainplates for the upper shrouds......
"J" is the base of the foretriangle measured along the deck from the headstay pin to the front of the mast.

For a genoa, a sailmaker will need to know the I and J for your boat (or can measure them), and also some track locations-but they will either measure this or give you a form to measure and complete..


I do not see any of the old 26's on the PHRF registry, but you should fall in the 250-270 range. The newer 26's are around 228-236-so don't be fooled if someone tells you it should be that low-the old 26 is slower and therefore will rate higher

Good luck!

 

[Capt. Max]

Thanks seth.

 

[Permenter59]

Ericson Yawl

Hi Seth

I located a 35E alberg yawl for sale. Built in the mid 60's.
Any comments on that boat? If beefed up would it be blue water?
Would you know how sea kindly she is? The beam is something like 9'8"
It looks like the mizzen could get swamped in a following sea. Any thoughts on that? We love our 29, but our considering moving up in size.
However, the beam of this yawl isnt much more than our 29. We want something safe for L. Superior

Thanks

Robert

 

[Seth]

Alberg 35

These are very sound, sturdy boats which have done circumnavigations many times with only minor mods..Structurally it is a good choice.
They are not very roomy, and while they were OK performers in their day, they are a bit slow by modern standards...

But, for this kind of sailing on a budget, a pretty good choice!

 

[Permenter59]

yawl poop

Thanks Seth. That helps.

It seems if a wave pooped the cockpit, it would destroy the mizzen. I have read stories of pooped boats surviving, but it seems if you were pooped in a yawl, the destroyed mast would render the boat nearly unrecoverable, and lessen chance of surviving. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
We sail across L. Superior and are somewhat concerned about that. Someday hope to go to the ocean, which would be even bigger concern. Any ideas on a yawl surviving a poop as opposed to a seaworthy sloop or ketch?<o></o>
<o></o>
Thanks again for your last response. It gives me more confidence in the rig. <o></o>

 

[Seth]

Not an issue

That is not a problem, since in conditions where you could take that large a sea over the stern, you probably won't have any mizzen up-just a storm jib. You won't see this happening on the Lakes, and at sea you are looking at full storm conditions (50 knots plus), and you will be going downwind (obviously) for this to happen-you will have the mizzen stowed in this kind of weather.

Besides-I have never heard of this being a problem with yawl rigs anyway. If you DID have any mizzen up, it would be very deep reefed, and not present much resistance..

Bottom line: This is a non-issue. What you should be concerned with is main hatch integrity, and cockpit drain capacity. These are the things which cause trouble when getting "pooped". Increase the diameter of your drains, and maybe even add another drain line. A rule of thumb is to have the cockpit drain in less than 90 seconds..Have lots of backup pump capacity..

The factory hatches on almost any production boat will not survive the full force of a breaking sea from astern, so the move is to reinforce the runners on the inside with Aluminum plate, and then build a one-piece hatch (all metal or metal core sandwich with wood or composite on each side) which can be locked down from the inside and outside.

Make storm covers for the portlights and the center and fwd hatches. These are the mods most production boats should have (IMHO) for serious offshore work.

Get good, well designed storm sails-and be sure you have figured out where to lead them, and you should survive most anything you will encounter.

What else? Make sure your rig and rigging is in top notch shape. Check with a rigger to see if going up a size on the BS, HS and shrouds is needed-but if they are in sound condition you should be fine.

Again, the A 35 yawl is one of the better choices for budget world cruising. It has the disadvantage of being heavy and a full keel (I prefer lighter boats with fin keels for the performance benefits), but the advantage of a heavy boat is you can carry more stores and gear without severely impacting performance-since these items will be smaller percentage of the overall weight of the boat-hence the percentage performance loss is less than with a lighter boat. This is good because you will be "out there" longer with a slower, heavier boat, so the ability to carry more is good thing.

Another benefit is that the full keel boats track slightly better than many fin keelers-meaning the autopilots do not work as hard (but I still prefer the other type of boats since autopilots have gotten so much better-it makes this argument somewhat moot).

Ketches and yawls, while weaker to windward than sloops, offer a lot of flexibility with sail plans-you can sail with a headsail and mizzen only when reaching-just drop the main entirely if you think a big blow is coming, and you now are dealing with very small sails-but still have the "balance" of having sails ahead of and behind the CG. Or, you can set a mizzen staysail or mizzen spinnaker in light-moderate reaching and running conditions to augment the headsail or spinnaker combo you are using.

Again, when running in major storm conditions, you will have only a storm jib anyway-there is no benefit to having any sail up in the back of the boat-it will just make steering downwind harder..

SO, it would not be my choice, but it is by most accounts a solid and safe choice for a world cruiser...

Sorry to drone on so much:nerd:

Enjoy!
S

 

[Permenter59]

droning is good

Thanks again Seth. I appreciate the droning as the learning curve (after 3+ years on the big lake) is still (always?) increasing. Much of what you said I have read and it is good to hear it again for reinforcement. Haven't owned a ketch or yawl so never knew the mast came down (or could come down) in such situations. When I looked at the yawl, it just seemed sooo far aft. I knew a yawl had the mast aft of the rudder, but this looked almost silly, it kept bugging me, and I couldn't find the answer to that pariticular question in one of my books. Thanks again for taking time to explain.

 

[Seth]

Must have droned too much!

I didn't mean to say the mizzen MAST would come down-just that you would have the mizzen SAIL furled/stowed completely in these conditions...The mast stays UP all the time. Sorry if that was not clear.

The point of this is that the mizzen sail will create a certain amount of weather helm (sail area aft of CG), which will make the boat want to point up towards the wind. In conditions where pooping is even something to think about (it means you are running very deep downwind with following seas), you do NOT want any sail area up in the back of the bus-you want whatever you are carrying to help keep the bow pointed downhill, which means a small headsail only. Again there are extreme conditions-you have minimal, if any sail up during times like this.

As for the mizzen MAST, it will be fine taking a large wave over the stern as long as the SAIL itself is tightly furled and secured (or perhaps stowed below if you have enough warning of these conditions).

Now, you MIGHT want to carry a reefed mizzen and storm jib if you plan is to heave-to-with the bow nearly into the waves..The mizzen will help keep the bow up close to the wind, and counteract the headsails' efforts to push the bow away from the wind..But in this case you won't get "pooped" because the bow is almost facing into the waves..

I hope this clears it up for you (clear as mud, right?!)

We can get into why a designer might choose a yawl over a ketch, or vice-versa another time-but both are perfectly good, safe rigs for offshore work

Seeya,
S

 

[Permenter59]

Thanks again for clarifying about the mizzen mast staying up. I have read about balance, reefing etc on a ketch or yawl and have the basic concepts and difference when running in following seas, etc, but the clarification of keeping the mizzen mast up help. At this stage of my sailing, I prefer over explaining rather than brevity so I truly appreciate your help. We were in 8 foot following seas out of ffice:smarttags" /><?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com

<ST1lace w:st="on">Canada</ST1lace></st1:country-region> (L. Superior) in 07 and it was a learning experience – on our 29 of course. Last year we looked at a ketch, but never sailed it. Am thinking hoping we can hop on one for a day just to see how it sails. Have heard/read pros and cons. Again thanks for taking time and patience to explain these things. As much as anything, this sight has improved my sailing understanding. Which is why I really appreciate this sight!<O</O

 

[Seth]

Ketches vs yawls

Don't get too wrapped up in the difference. Technically a yawl has the mizzen mast stepped aft of the rudder post, and a ketch has it fwd of the rudder post. You cannot draw any conclusions about the differences since the impact on balance is really controlled by how far fwd or aft the mainmast is located.
The reality is these are both good solutions to the problem of splitting up sails into more manageable sizes compared to a sloop-this is why they exist when you boil it all down.

But, a sloop (or cutter) is by far the most efficient rig, and what you should really look for as a preference-all other things being equal. Less maintanance, better performance (especially uphill), and more simplicity. I would only choose a split rig such as a ketch, yawl or even schooner (unless we are talking boats over 50-60 feet) if a GREAT deal fell into my lap-and take it in spite of, rather than because of the split rig. For boats in the size range you are talking about, the sails on a sloop are just not so big as to be a problem-certainly not enough to need a split rig to deal with it-especially with furlers and lazyjacks and the other goodies we enjoy today.

Back to the Alberg-sure, if it has a lot going for it, you should consider it-but don't get focused on buying a ketch or a yawl-and if you do, either one is just as good as the other.


S