supersailor
Contributing Partner
Do any of you have any experience with the Frog Ascending System for climbing the mast. I'm looking for a more comfortable (safer?) system than my Boson's Chair.
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Frog ascending system
- Thread starter supersailor
- Start date
Maybe...
http://technology.darkfrontier.us/Vertical/Frog/
The guy in the how-to article looks: 1) young, and 2) strong.
Hmmmmmm........ Neither attribute have I.....
Being 'young at heart' may help, however.
Loren
http://technology.darkfrontier.us/Vertical/Frog/
The guy in the how-to article looks: 1) young, and 2) strong.
Hmmmmmm........ Neither attribute have I.....
Being 'young at heart' may help, however.
Loren
I'm considering the ATN Mastclimber. These systems are well proven, and you can even make your own with sliding knots. Many examples and DIY projects on YouTube.
My guess is that even a geezer can make the climb in the slip, and the great benefit of the foot stirrups is that you can stand and easily reach the the truck of the mast.
But is this gear a substitute for mast steps?
Here's the reality of unassisted mast climbing offshore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B2jvgrSiNc
My guess is that even a geezer can make the climb in the slip, and the great benefit of the foot stirrups is that you can stand and easily reach the the truck of the mast.
But is this gear a substitute for mast steps?
Here's the reality of unassisted mast climbing offshore.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B2jvgrSiNc
I looked at all the systems and absolutely decided that I would set up my own, like the "frog" thingy. Then I came across a big sale on the ATN mast climber and just bought it. I've only used in in the slip, but I did have to go up in the rain a couple of times.
Overall, I think an actual climbing harness, as depicted in the frog link above would be safer and feel more secure. I have slipped perilously far on the plastic seat of the ATN. The pins on one or more of the ascenders have come close to slipping out once. Edges on hardware tend to scrape against the mast and leave scratches, and even to fray the rope that you're depending on. One nice touch is that the carry bag clips on to the seat for use as a tool bag. But it's difficult to reach the bottom. You can really improve it by sewing a couple of pockets on the inside, and some lanyard clips for your tools.
It's not really physically demanding to use, and the frog system shouldn't be either. The first couple of times I used it, I was exhausted and my arms were cramping up like crazy - I realized that I was holding on way too tight. Well, I certainly didn't want to drop any of the screws and nuts up at the top there.
er... has anybody noticed on Christian Lloyd's videos, how he seems to scramble up the mast on a lark, with no ropes or gear of any kind, to snap pictures while underway? In one of the recent ones, sailing solo, he sets both headsails, the main, and the spinnaker flying, sets the wind vane, then just pops up to the top of the mast to admire the view...:0 I don't know if I'll ever have that kind of confidence about anything.
Overall, I think an actual climbing harness, as depicted in the frog link above would be safer and feel more secure. I have slipped perilously far on the plastic seat of the ATN. The pins on one or more of the ascenders have come close to slipping out once. Edges on hardware tend to scrape against the mast and leave scratches, and even to fray the rope that you're depending on. One nice touch is that the carry bag clips on to the seat for use as a tool bag. But it's difficult to reach the bottom. You can really improve it by sewing a couple of pockets on the inside, and some lanyard clips for your tools.
It's not really physically demanding to use, and the frog system shouldn't be either. The first couple of times I used it, I was exhausted and my arms were cramping up like crazy - I realized that I was holding on way too tight
. Well, I certainly didn't want to drop any of the screws and nuts up at the top there. er... has anybody noticed on Christian Lloyd's videos, how he seems to scramble up the mast on a lark, with no ropes or gear of any kind, to snap pictures while underway? In one of the recent ones, sailing solo, he sets both headsails, the main, and the spinnaker flying, sets the wind vane, then just pops up to the top of the mast to admire the view...:0 I don't know if I'll ever have that kind of confidence about anything.
Mast Mate Ladder
Not sure if it's relavant or not, but I use a mast mate ladder that came with the boat along with a climbing harness attached to a seperate haylard. It's just like climbing up a ladder. My legs get a little tired at the top because the steps are a fairly long reach, and you're standing on uneven rugs, but I can tie off the haylard at the working level and sit in the harness to work.
The ladder slides up the mast track using the mainsail haylard. I've climbed up solo three times so far, once with the mainsail still attached (but stowed on the boom)
http://www.mastmate.com/
-Dean
Not sure if it's relavant or not, but I use a mast mate ladder that came with the boat along with a climbing harness attached to a seperate haylard. It's just like climbing up a ladder. My legs get a little tired at the top because the steps are a fairly long reach, and you're standing on uneven rugs, but I can tie off the haylard at the working level and sit in the harness to work.
The ladder slides up the mast track using the mainsail haylard. I've climbed up solo three times so far, once with the mainsail still attached (but stowed on the boom)
http://www.mastmate.com/
-Dean
They're all pretty close in my view, each with its own trade-offs. Guy in the slip next to me had a Mastmate ladder and said it was uncomfortable. But he didn't use a bosun's chair with it.
Toddster, apparently they recently redesigned the ATN ascenders. Do you have the new ones that open and close around the line, instead of having to thread it through?.
Toddster, apparently they recently redesigned the ATN ascenders. Do you have the new ones that open and close around the line, instead of having to thread it through?.
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Yes, mine look like that picture. I think the issue is that once the geometry of the triangle takes you in close to the mast, your body weight can force the ascenders hard against the mast, which can cut a nasty groove. And depending on the orientation, can potentially push the pin out of the ascender.
(Not a big fan of that kind of push-button pin. Great concept, but kind of squirrely in actual use. In some cases, I suspect this may be due to erosion of aluminum holes by steel pins. Doesn't take very much wear before that little ball no longer captures the edge. Lost a nice tiller off my Hobie 16 that way, and had to steer all the way home by jamming the toe of my Tevas over the cross-bar. (Then discovered that's actually a pretty agreeable way to steer in light winds, while semi-napping on the tramp.) Of course they could be replaced with something less convenient but safer.)
You basically you just have to use it a few times to figure out the best way to hold your body in relation to the shrouds and to the mast. Which probably varies according to your specific boat. For me, so far, it's face outboard until above the spreaders, then face the mast and kind of push off of it with your feet (? not sure about that yet.) Of course, I've complicated things by sticking the radome up there too, and you don't want to kick the spreader lights either...
(Not a big fan of that kind of push-button pin. Great concept, but kind of squirrely in actual use. In some cases, I suspect this may be due to erosion of aluminum holes by steel pins. Doesn't take very much wear before that little ball no longer captures the edge. Lost a nice tiller off my Hobie 16 that way, and had to steer all the way home by jamming the toe of my Tevas over the cross-bar. (Then discovered that's actually a pretty agreeable way to steer in light winds, while semi-napping on the tramp.) Of course they could be replaced with something less convenient but safer.)
You basically you just have to use it a few times to figure out the best way to hold your body in relation to the shrouds and to the mast. Which probably varies according to your specific boat. For me, so far, it's face outboard until above the spreaders, then face the mast and kind of push off of it with your feet (? not sure about that yet.) Of course, I've complicated things by sticking the radome up there too, and you don't want to kick the spreader lights either...
supersailor
Contributing Partner
Frog
I haven't heard much good about any of the "marine" ascending systems. Mast steps are the biggest "pain" ever invented. Halyards are constantly getting fouled in them. By the time my deck muscle ratchets me 51' in the air, he's wiped. The boson's chair is trying to cut me in half all the way up and all I can think of is getting out of it but my muscle on the deck is trying to recover. From several sources, I have heard that the frog system is the best. I don't have any actual testimonials from people that have actually used it. I would picture it used with a backup halyard attached and a mast loop to keep you at the mast. One of the things I like about the Frog system is it is designed to go up in thin air.
Christian. That video is insane. You couldn't pay me enough to go up that mast!
I haven't heard much good about any of the "marine" ascending systems. Mast steps are the biggest "pain" ever invented. Halyards are constantly getting fouled in them. By the time my deck muscle ratchets me 51' in the air, he's wiped. The boson's chair is trying to cut me in half all the way up and all I can think of is getting out of it but my muscle on the deck is trying to recover. From several sources, I have heard that the frog system is the best. I don't have any actual testimonials from people that have actually used it. I would picture it used with a backup halyard attached and a mast loop to keep you at the mast. One of the things I like about the Frog system is it is designed to go up in thin air.
Christian. That video is insane. You couldn't pay me enough to go up that mast!
Carefree Sailor
Member II
The topic of the ATN system was discussed in a previous thread: http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoex...s-new-Mastclimber!-NOT!&highlight=atn+climber. As mentioned there, my experience with the ATN climber was positive. Subsequent to my post on that thread, I've had opportunity to use it again without any problems. If the task is to go up the mast, I endorse the system; however, if you need to work out from the mast, say on the ends of the spreaders, the ATN system isn't quite the answer, at least in my mind. Maybe I simply need more practice.
We use a bosun's chair and I always try to help the grinder by pushing up with my legs and pulling myself up on the spreaders to lighten the seat. It takes a lot out of me and I'm hoping that regular workouts will help in that regard, for the next time. It really gives your legs and abs a workout. I know a guy who could scramble up a mast sort of like going up a skinny palm tree. I saw him do it on a 30 something Hunter one day. Easy as you please to the first spreader, which is all the higher he had to go.
One famous rigger who inspected my rig 10 years ago hoists a 10 or 12-inch pulley to the top on a halyard. Then he pulls himself up using about 1" line. I don't recall how he secured the line to hold himself up. Can't see that working offshore, though.
One famous rigger who inspected my rig 10 years ago hoists a 10 or 12-inch pulley to the top on a halyard. Then he pulls himself up using about 1" line. I don't recall how he secured the line to hold himself up. Can't see that working offshore, though.
ddoles
Member III
I've got the ATN Topclimber which is now about 10 years old and a different design than shown in the above photo. It has no removable pin and is simpler from that perspective. You have to thread the line through the ascenders, and once its in, it seems very secure. I've only used it at the dock, but in that situation its great. Easy to use once you get the rhythm of climbing. Its comfortable, easy to carry tools, you can use it single-handed and you can get your head and shoulders above the mast top if needed. For me, its been a perfect solution.
Carefree Sailor
Member II
Here is a link to an article about mast climbing systems: http://l-36.com/mast_climbing_2.php. Embedded in this article is another link. The author of the articles has tested various systems.
u079721
Contributing Partner
And then there is the article I wrote on mast climbing techniques for Good Old Boat magazine back in 1999.
http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/upthemast.php
I've tried them all, and and I still prefer a block and tackle system for the control. The "frog" method is pretty hard to do, but it certainly does have the advantage of using the strength of your legs rather than your arms.
http://www.goodoldboat.com/reader_services/articles/upthemast.php
I've tried them all, and and I still prefer a block and tackle system for the control. The "frog" method is pretty hard to do, but it certainly does have the advantage of using the strength of your legs rather than your arms.
supersailor
Contributing Partner
mast assending
Christen,
Check out this thread. It will be helpful. I know my Boson's Chair is the most uncomfortable thing I've ever been in.
Christen,
Check out this thread. It will be helpful. I know my Boson's Chair is the most uncomfortable thing I've ever been in.