Hand rail rebedding on Ericson 29

[sproption]

Hello E-sailors!

I am in need of some advice.

I need to remove my external hand rails from my cabin top, refinish and rebed. However, there is a problem. My E-29 has a hard inner liner with no access hatches to the handrails from the inside and...

there is no apparent access to the hardware holding the hand rails to the cabin top other than a couple of bungs at each connection point.

Do I...
1. remove the bungs (how) and access the hardware (what kind? bolts, screws, threaded posts...?)

or...

2. engage in major surgery and cut access holes in my salon ceiling to access said hardware.

If anybody out there has dealt with this problem, please let me know.

Thanks!

Matt
E-29
s/v Tranquility

 

[tenders]

They probably aren't throughbolted at all. On my boat, bolts pass through the areas where there are bungs, and are set in stainless "anchors" that were set into the fiberglass hull from the top.

Not a very strong arrangement -- throughbolts are unquestionably better.

 

[sproption]

Thanks for your input! Did you ever have to remove your handrail? Any tricks or things I should be aware of before I start drilling?

Another sailor inferred something similar, but wasn't sure.

Matt

 

[Glyn Judson]

How are your handrails attached?

Matt, There's more of a chance that your handrails are anchored in aluminum plates rather than stainless plates and if the former, there's little to no chance that you'll be able to remove the 1/4" stainless screws in your handrails. The screws and the aluminum will have corroded to the extent that they are virtually fused together. You might want to just mask around them in place then sand and varnish. No sense making a megaproject out of a not too pleasant one in the first place. Good luck, Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[sproption]

Thanks Glyn,

Yes, I am considering that option, but I am in need of rebedding. Is an option for me to keep the rails in place, sand them, grind away some of the surrounding gel coat, and then glass the handrails in place, making them a part of the cabin top? Finish with UV resistant 1 part polyurethane...

The epoxy and glass would seal the hand rails to the deck, add some strength and no more varnish...

or is that option just covering up something that will rear it's ugly head later?

Matt

PS. You provided me some wonderful advice years ago on the E-25+. You were a huge help! I obviously went to the E-29.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Bedding your handrails.

Matt, Before going to that extent, take the time to remove all debris, varnish and dried remnants of any previous bedding from around the handrail loops where they contact the cabin top and then apply repeated doses of Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure http://www.captaintolley.com/ around the seams. Follow the directions and wipe up and drips while it's still fluid. I've resorted to this in several instances like the toe rail on our boat and it's worked wonderfully. I think West Marine still sells it. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey, CA

 

[sproption]

Thanks Glyn,

I will give this stuff a good look.

Matt

 

[Tom Metzger]

Matt - You are a very young man and haven't learned the ways of EY.org. A lot of the gurus on this site, like Glyn, live in inhospitable, unhappy areas of the world where they have corrosion and other nasty blights. You know, things like salt.

You, living in a hospitable area, depending on the previous history of your boat, may have no problem removing the screws.

To remove the plugs drill a small pilot hole in the center and then screw in a sheet metal screw. It will lift out the plug. I would start with one or two to make sure you do not have a problem with corrosion.

 

[Brian K]

Matt, I removed the handrails on my E32-200 early this winter. They may be installed differently than yours, but I carefully dug out the bungs and removed the screws below the bungs. The hardest part was freeing the wood from the death grip of the sealing material. Nothing was holding the handrail from below. I had a Catalina 25 prior to my Ericson and found the same thing on that boat also. You are going about this the correct way - removing the wood, removing the old finish and then reinstalling. You'll be glad you did it this way. Just be careful when you sand over the screw holes that you don't round them off with the sandpaper. It's best to use a sanding block over the holes. Good luck.

 

[paul culver]

One thing I would add from looking at my E29 -- there is a through bolt at each end of each hand rail. The access below is behind one inch push-in metal caps. The bung removal method with screws described above works great.

--Paul
E29 "Bear"

 

[bigd14]

On my E27 there were through bolts that were bolted through the top rail and into the bottom rail where a nut was held captive. I just removed the bungs and unscrewed the bolts. Of course there were a few where the captive nut was no longer captive and I had to drill up through the bottom to get a grip on it. The front three bolts were bolted to the underside of the deck with a circular hole cut in the liner and covered with a small circular cover (like a bike handlebar plug).

Doug

 

[sproption]

Dear Tom, Brian, Paul and Doug.

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you, and Thank you.

I shall heed all that you say. Yes, it seems these methods are less nightmarish than my proposal above.

Brian and Tom, thanks for your guidance(and calling me young). Yes, I am a L. Michigan sailor (for now...(after snorkling in Hawai'i...are you kidding me...Wisconsin in July looks like a black and white photo)) without the severe salt issues. The boat has been freshwater all it's life. I shall remove the bungs as you described.

Paul, as far as I can tell, there is no, none, zero access past my headliner...that solid, monolithic monstrosity unless the cap to which you are referring is behind my VHF mount, which is possible...worth looking at.

Doug, I do not have interior hand rails. I may have to cut an access hole, like the one you describe for your E-27.

Thanks guys.

Matt

 

[dave_g]

I replaced the hand rails on my '71 E29

Matt,
The handrails on my E29 were secured with wood screws. I carefully drilled the center of the bungs with a 1/4-3/8 drill. I used a small hand chisel to get most of the remaining bung. The screws heads were made for a large flat blade screwdriver and I had no trouble removing them.

The construction of my cabin top is Gel coat on the outside, approx 3/16" of fiberglass, approx 3/4" wood core and another thin layer of fiberglass to hold the core in place against the cabin top. Like yours, my headliner was solid,with no access.

When I replaced the handrail, I cut 1 1/2" holes in the headliner below each screw and used through bolts backed with 1" washers. Before cutting the 1-1/2" inch holes, I made sure I could get plugs that would fit the 1-1/2" holes. I found some white vinyl plugs at a local hw store. It doesn't look perfect, but the handrails are safe to grab.

Good Luck,
Dave

 

[sproption]

Hi Dave,

Thanks so much for that detailed info about the E-29!

I will certainly approach my problem as advised by you and the guys above.

Matt

 

[tenders]

I removed my leaky, loose, old, and (it turns out) rotten handrails a couple of years ago, filled the holes with epoxy, and have been waiting for the time and motivation to replace them. Don Casey makes fabricating them look pretty easy in This Old Boat, and I already have the hole saw of the requisite size.

I likewise did not have through-bolts and have no direct access to the bottom of the deck through the headliner. But when I replace the exterior handrails, I'm planning to make new interior rails too and through-bolt the exteriors to the interiors, pinning the headliner in the middle of them.

Will this work? Or do I need to cut holes out of the headliner to fit the base of the interior rail right up against the underside of the true deck?

And how do you drill a series of holes straight and long enough for this to work--through two handrails, a deck, and a headliner? I have a portable drill press to which a hand drill attaches, but given the curviness of the deck I'm not sure it will be all that much help.

 

[Randy Rutledge]

Tenders
Look at the handrail section of the E-29 owner’s manual on this site I have attached the page 68. The inner and outer on port are the same length the Starboard is two grips short as it ends at the bulkhead the table is mounted on.
The handrail on the inside just bolted against the surface of the headliner. The inside handrails are nice if you sail in any rough water. If you need pictures I can take a few next weekend if I get to the boat.

 

[tenders]

Helpful. Thank you Randy.