Hatch joinery ?

Sven

Seglare
We're finally getting some time to spend on La Petite and are doing a few projects in addition to just spending time on board on the water.

Are there any good on-line or paper documents/books that illustrate standard yacht-joinery details ?

The galley was simple enough (read trivial shelf and drawer), but making a teak hatch for the forepeak is a bit more complicated. I'm still looking through some of my old yacht design books but so far I haven't found any design examples.

Thanks.



-Sven
 

NateHanson

Sustaining Member
The foredeck hatches I've repaired or replaced have been a simple frame of four pieces of teak, butt-jointed together with two bunged screws at each joint. (use long screws because they're into end-grain)

In reality what holds these hatches together is the 1/2" acrylic that is screwed to it. In the end, the teak is just there as a trim, for looks and to keep water out.
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
I re built my for peak hatch using scrap teak from none other than a old Bayliner. I was able to salvage the original acrylic (Plex) top. I just used the old hatch as a template for the teak sides. You can see that I cut some strips of aluminium and used it where the corners meet so it has some metal reenforcement. Not really any fancy joining work but it is water tight because all corners are also joined with epoxy. It is a jury rig but I think it came out pretty good. I can and do stand on it. Oh yeah, all new screws as well.
 

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hcpookie

Member III
Hey that looks pretty nice! Question - does anyone ever give any concern to the fact that a determined theif could unscrew the hinges and pop the hatch open? Does it ever happen?

I've wondered if using torx screws or other less-common screws would be a good deterent, or just a PITA?

I saw a hatch design *somewhere* that had a louvered skylight built into the design - seems that would really light up the interior... ?
 

Shadowfax

Member III
As my father use to say "Locks are to keep honest people honest". A determined thief would simply ply off the hatch with a crow bar, not stand on a deck for 20 mins. unscrewing 20 screws in front of who knows how many eyes.
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Yup, you are right but this follows the original design for a 1973 E-27. I do keep a canvas on the hatch, so it's accessibility is out of sight. It does lock from the inside. Even if they were able to take the time to get the screws out, the acrylic is also glued to the teak. Not a lot of theft at my marina.
 

jkenan

Member III
I'm in the process of rebuilding all my hatches, and am deviating (who, me?) from the orginal design. I'm not a big fan of the boxy, high profile original hatch design, and plan to build a frame with a rounded upper outside edge (done with a router), and insetting the acrylic inside the frame, rather than screwed down into the top of the frame. Also planning on going with smoked grey acrylic rather than the clear stuff to help keep things cooler down below.

My first project is the companionway hatch, and have built a prototype out of plywood of a proposed design (see pics below). All joinery is dado and rabbet, and the whole structure will hold itself together unglued. All edges are routed to a smooth radius curve. I've gone ahead and glued it and coated it in epoxy so I can actually use it while I'm building the final version. I'm keeping the curve in the front and back of the hatch to maintain the overall lines, with a sufficient rise in the front to act as a spray guard, and I'm keeping the 15 degree (approx) bevels on all four sides. The back of the hatch is not installed in the pics, but has a similar rise as the front. It must be a separate piece fastened after it's mounted in order to keep it from coming off the rails. I am going with a flat surface in the hatch design to allow for an acrylic insert in the top (havn't gotten into forming acrylic yet - my wife won't let me use the oven for that). Final version will be coated with cloth and matte, vacuum bagged, and painted to match the color of the hull. Less wood, less maintenance...

Once this is finished, the forepeak and salon hatches will be built to match, without the bevels, but with the radiused edges and smoked acrylic. Also thinking of a design that will allow them to open both forward and backward with the aft side mounted to the deck. Possibly a frame within a frame, hinged? Hmmm...
 

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jkenan

Member III
I'm in the process of rebuilding all my hatches, and am deviating (who, me?) from the orginal design. I'm not a big fan of the boxy, high profile original hatch design, and plan to build a frame with a rounded upper outside edge (done with a router), and insetting the acrylic inside the frame, rather than screwed down into the top of the frame. Also planning on going with smoked grey acrylic rather than the clear stuff to help keep things cooler down below.

My first project is the companionway hatch, and have built a prototype out of plywood of a proposed design (see pics below). All joinery is dado and rabbet, and the whole structure will hold itself together unglued. All edges are routed to a smooth radius curve. I've gone ahead and glued it and coated it in epoxy so I can actually use it while I'm building the final version. I'm keeping the curve in the front and back of the hatch to maintain the overall lines, with a sufficient rise in the front to act as a spray guard, and I'm keeping the 15 degree (approx) bevels on all four sides. The back of the hatch is not installed in the pics, but has a similar rise as the front. It must be a separate piece fastened after it's mounted in order to keep it from coming off the rails. I am going with a flat surface in the hatch design to allow for an acrylic insert in the top (havn't gotten into forming acrylic yet - my wife won't let me use the oven for that). Final version will be coated with cloth and matte, vacuum bagged, and painted to match the color of the hull. Less wood, less maintenance...

Once this is finished, the forepeak and salon hatches will be built to match, without the bevels, but with the radiused edges and smoked acrylic. Also thinking of a design that will allow them to open both forward and backward with the aft side mounted to the deck. Possibly a frame within a frame, hinged? Hmmm...
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Nice work and great ideas!

Nice work and great ideas!

Fortunately I was able to repair my existing companion way hatch. I used 1/16" double sided adhesive weather stripping in between where the sides meet the top because it was badly worn. The wood was badly weathered and gray and you can still see a lot of the raised grain of the wood, but I thought it was worth saving. It has 11 coats of varnish and is holding up very well after 2 1/2 years. I keep it under canvas. I know others that have had to completely fabricate new ones. Plasteak any one?
 

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Sven

Seglare
Useful answers and the kitchen sink too !

Thanks for the answers, pictures and suggestions !

Teak from a bayliner sounds pretty cheap :)

I'm still considering either dovetail or pocket-hole attachment, with glue. The long screws would no doubt work well too, even into the end-grain.

Smoked acrylic is also on our list.

How did you seal the bottom of the hatch ? Since ours is not on top of a coach roof it sometimes gets hit with water shooting across the deck. In those cases the current hatch leaks if all the rubber gaskets aren't aligned just right.

I have worried about the hinges, having had one outboard stolen in the prior marina. We leave nothing of real value on board when we are not there so I'd almost rather have someone unscrew and find nothing than bust things only to find the same "nothing".

We're still looking for a reasonable 10"x10" to 12"x12" SS sink too. I still can't believe that a SS sink is not available for less than $250+. I did find one "no trademark" sink for $50 but asume it will rust since it was listed next to all the designer sinks starting at $300 !? At those prices it is almost worth spending a whole day to drive down to Minnies to see what they have.



-Sven
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Hi Sven,

Been a while since I have seen any postings from you. To answer your question about the seal, I never changed a thing. It has gray weather stripping on the deck around the hatch, just under the teak from the PO.

Good luck finding your sink. You might try Kelly Marine (310)-548-5348 http://www.kellymarine.com/kelly/services.htm , in San Pedro, closer than Minney's

http://www.minneysyachtsurplus.com/ .

You just might find it at the Annual Marine Gear Sale & Boat Auction this Saturday! OCC Sailing School.

http://www.occsailing.com/pages/boatsforsale/auction/index.html

Cheers! Jeff

Oh yeah, Bayliner or not, teak is teak and it ain't cheap except for plasteak! :):egrin:
 
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Sven

Seglare
Hi Jeff,

Jeff Asbury said:
Been a while since I have seen any postings from you.

As Glyn often points out: He is retired. He points it out to remind me that I am not :)

Work has just been getting in the way for the last several months, to the point where it has been almost all work and no play.

We'll start making the weekends free again, no matter what, or we'll go nuts !



-Sven
 

tenders

Innocent Bystander
Starboard has right of way over Plasteak

Jeff Asbury said:
It has 11 coats of varnish and is holding up very well after 2 1/2 years. I keep it under canvas. I know others that have had to completely fabricate new ones. Plasteak any one?

Gents, this work is absolutely masterful.

I refabricated my hatchboards last year with, I am somewhat embarrassed to say, not Plasteak but 3/4" grey Starboard. This was my first "wood"working project with the tablesaw and router and they came out pretty well, exceeding my expectations for appearance. They don't look one bit as nice as the stuff you guys are cranking out here. However, they, unlike my wife and little kids, require zero maintenance.

Last weekend my boat partner and I finished what turned out to be a yearlong project replacing the wornout, weathered, and split mahogany cockpit coamings. We refabricated these with 3/4" grey Starboard and a great deal of salty language. Those 6'+ parts were pretty complicated to handle but the particularly vexing thing about them was the complexity of having to create giant 3/4" holes for the many mounting screws.

3/4" holes, you say? Well yes -- Starboard expands and contracts with temperature much more than wood does, so each hole has to be drilled oversized for the screw. Who wants to look at or lean up against 64 screws and washers in the coamings...so 64 countersink holes had to be drilled with a Forstner bit, oversized of course as well to allow for the washer. To preserve the textured surface, the plugs for each of these holes had to be cut out upside-down from scrap pieces of Starboard cut down very thin--and a 3/4" plug cutter is a fairly obscure item. But, once sourced from McFeely's, it worked. (And I have about 100 extra plugs in case any of the installed bastiches decide to fall out.)

None of this changes the fact that I have serious bulkhead damage rendering the boat unsailable and haven't done a thing about it yet....
 

Martin King

Sustaining Member
Blogs Author
Hatch joinery 101

Sven,
This is how it's done on my boat-and on other custom designs.

Martin
E-31C

hatch3.jpg

skylight.jpg
 
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Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Egads, that hatch looks like its worth more than my whole boat! Nice work Martin! Sven, you should contract Martin to do your boat.

Now that's what I call JOINERY! Can't miss the joins!
 

Sven

Seglare
Jeff,

Jeff Asbury said:
It has 11 coats of varnish and is holding up very well after 2 1/2 years. I keep it under canvas.

Are those velcro tabs next to the companion way ? I'm guessing they are and that you use them to temporarily mount electronics ?



-Sven
 

Sven

Seglare
Martin,

Martin King said:
This is how it's done on my boat-and on other custom designs.

Thanks, that's the joinery detail I was envisioning.

The "roof" design obviously won't fit the E23 style, but it looks _gorgeous_ !

Time to get out the router and a dovetail jig :)




-Sven
 

Jeff Asbury

Principal Partner
Yes they are. They are gone now. I used to connect a portable CD player to them and run a wire to the stereo inside until I got a iPod. I am a big music lover and I used to pack about 30 to 50 CDs for every trip to the island. Now I can take 500 CDs on the iPod. No more velcro or CD player. Love that iPod!
 

Sven

Seglare
David does teleshopping for us !

Sven said:
We're still looking for a reasonable 10"x10" to 12"x12" SS sink too. I still can't believe that a SS sink is not available for less than $250+. I did find one "no trademark" sink for $50 but asume it will rust since it was listed next to all the designer sinks starting at $300 !? At those prices it is almost worth spending a whole day to drive down to Minnies to see what they have.

David (owned by Emerald) stopped by Bacon in Md to shop for one for us and it just arrived. At $30 plus shipping it was a bargain and after some cleaning I'm sure we can buff it to perfection :)

Thanks David !


-Sven
 

Emerald

Moderator
Hi Sven,

Happy that the sink made it to you and looks like it has promise. Despite it's large dimension, it seemed too good to pass up at the $30 price tag.

Since I'm in Bacon's a lot, I'll keep my eyes open for a smaller one also.


BTW, Emerald is a good owner - she's very kind to me :D


-David
Independence 31
Emerald
http://home.comcast.net/~independence31/
 
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