Hauling my Universal 5416 this weekend

[WhiteNoise]

Hauling my Universal - pics

After having some overheating issues, a little smoke from the exhaust, seemingly low power, and judging the overall visual condition of the motor I have made the decision to pull and completely rebuild my Universal 5416. I will be hauling it out this weekend.
My uncle is a diesel mechanic so I will have some assistance.

I am planning to:
Do a valve job
Replace all gaskets
Inspect and determine whether or not exchanger replacement is necessary
Do a good general cleaning, corrosion proofing, and painting.
Replace the fuel tank while the motor is out

Anyone know of a good/reasonable place for a new tank?
Any tank type suggestions?
Any other ideas/suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[Loren Beach]

a Tank, you say?

Pure coincidence, but my new fuel tank is being fabricated right now up at Coastline Equipment in Bellingham, WA.
http://www.coastline-tanks.com/index.html

I made a wood mock up of the new tank and then produced drawings from that.
The picture here shows the original 14 gallon tank beside the mock up, which I figure will hold about 20+ gallons. The original is not leaking, but we need more range for coastal cruising. At 20 years, it seems like a good time to replace it anyway. The shape is a bit complicated due to following the hull contour under a settee.
The fill hose is permeated and was overdue for replacement, too.

I should have it back in a few weeks. I will post pictures of the old and new tanks when the install is done. Price is $526. including S/H.

This particular company is very well regarded in the NW, but I betcha there are good tank builders all around the US....

Loren in PDX
(Olson 34)

 

[rwthomas1]

Well, maybe...

Rebuilding an engine usually is more than regasketing and doing a valve job. The pistons and cylinders would need to be mic'd and checked for wear. May require boring, or new liners (can't remember if your engine is sleeved or not) Nice thing about liners is the pistons can often be reused. The crankshaft and connecting rods will also have to be mic'd and checked for wear. May require turning and new bearings. The deck and head will have to be checked for straightness and twist which may be there if it was overheated. Again machine work may be required to make it right. You may get lucky with all the bearing clearances in good shape, just a re-ring, valve job and put it back together. Drop the IP and injectors off at an injection shop for inspection. They will check the IP calibration and pop/pattern the injectors for a nominal fee.

But then again your Uncle will know all this!

Regarding the fuel tank, check out: http://www.lutherswelding.com/ They are very good at what they do, even mentioned in PS a while back. They made a new 39 gallon tank for my E38 for $525 in about a week. No connection, just a satisfied customer.

RT

 

[WhiteNoise]

Thanks!!!

I really appreciate all the ideas.

While you're probably (hopefully ) right that my uncle already knows much of this I figure that there may be some stuff that may differ being that it is a marine diesel, or at least some other things to consider ... so any input is appreciated.

Any other ideas/suggestions related or not that would be condusive to doing while I have the motor/tank out? I am also going to add a dripless shaft seal.

Loren - That sure looks like it will add some noticeable capacity. Be sure to let us know how it goes. How are you planning to mount it?
I am considering Atlantic Coast Welding www.speedytanks.com
I found a good article on their website about proper install, may be of interest to you: http://marinesurvey.com/yacht/fueltank.htm

RT - Not to sound stupid but what does mic'd mean? I will check out Luthers Welding.

Thanks again!

 

[sleather]

WN, mic'd = measured w/ a micrometer, to check that things are within specified tolerances.

You might want to check w/ www.sptanks.com as they have been recommended on an "inboard" powerboat site I belong to. When it comes to "quotes" the-more-the-merrier.

 

[Loren Beach]

My replacement tank will "hang" from angled brackets on each side of the top. The bottom corners should still clear the bilge surface by about a half inch.

Loren

 

[Richard Murphy]

Engine

It might sound funny but check out the cost a new replacment engine. You maybe can get a lighter and more powerfull engine for a little more$. Dont forget about the transmission.

 

[WhiteNoise]

And it begins

Well I went down in the brisk, knuckle breaking 27 degrees we had on Long Island yesterday and made some headway. I've removed the hot water tank and disconnected many of the hoses and wires/wiring harness. I have removed the alternator, alternator bracket, and belt. I have also drained off the much of the motor's fluids.

I want to remove the transmission and the heat exchanger and elbow to lighten it before I haul but am having difficulty figuring out how. Please advise. Here's some pics of this beast.
Thanks!

 

[WhiteNoise]

New? Maybe...

Richard

I am considering the prospect of repowering all together. I am awaiting some quotes. There are some definite advantages.

 

[jkm]

Wow, what great pictures.

My hat off to you for going and doing anything in 27 degree weather!

The more pictures I see of repowering projects and the diesels the more fortunate I realize I am to have a good, clean and solid A4.

Please take more pictures and post them-

John

 

[WhiteNoise]

Repower Quotes

Got back some quotes for Universal, Westerbeke, and Beta-Marine.
Let's just say repowering is out of the question/out of the budget for me.
The average price was around $6500. OUCH!!!

Got the motor out, transmission, exchanger, and all. I used my mainsheet 4:1with 200 feet of anchor rode. Hung it from my boom, swung it over the side and lowered it down to ground level ... by myself. Loads of fun. haha

Obviously pictures were not a priority at that time. Sorry all. I will be sure to well document the project though.

 

[mherrcat]

Engine compartment access

I also have a Ericson 30+ (1985). I am very new to the boat (partnership) and was wondering how you accessed the engine compartment to take all those pictures! Is it through the port cockpit locker? From what I can see there seems to be very little room in that engine compartment. I wanted to get familiar with everything and make sure I can access the fuel filter, stuffing box, etc.

 

[WhiteNoise]

Engine Access

mherrcat

What can I say, I'm just very flexible ... kidding.

I actually removed my hot water tank which was located behind the motor. I believe that is where it was located on most if not all of the 30+ models. That made much more room in the port side locker and makes the general maintenance you speak of actually quite manageable. Managable is the operative word, not comfortable, but much better.

I plan to reinstall the water heater but am looking at different tank options that I can fit in a different place.

I have redone almost all of the systems on Pegasus so if you have any questions about the boat, fire away. Hope I can help. She's a great boat and I wish you the best.

 

[mherrcat]

Thanks! There is a hot water tank behind the engine. I guess the only real access is through that port side locker or maybe the locker under the setee in the stern. I'll have to pull everything out of there and take a closer look next time I'm on the boat.

You may be able to answer another question. There are three bilge compartments in the cabin sole. The middle one has a bilge pump in it, but because of the small space it doesn't sit all the way at the bottom, so there is always about 1" of water in there. There is a hole at the bottom of the forward wall of that bilge that appears to be the outlet of a tube that runs through the next bilge (forward) and then goes somewhere else. Even after siphoning out all the water in the middle bilge there is still water seeping in through that hole/tube. (By the time I got all the water out, I had about 1 1/2 gallons!) Any idea where it might be coming from? It's salt water, so it must be coming from outside.

 

[EGregerson]

That motor looks familiar....

It's a tough decision: new or rebuild. I have (had) a U 25 xp that overheated a month ago; prior to that, the top speed was about 5.5 knots. I opted for a new motor (since i had some of the insurance money). I'll try to hit the high points. The new motor is 4 hp more powerful; it runs like it's on steroids (relative to the 20 year old Universal). The new motor has features that solve some of the head-achey things on the old: ignition key that engages the glow plugs, 135 amp alternator, uses new diesel, 4 motor mounts (rather than 3), a 'real' vent/valve for the cooling system; dip stick at the top the motor. The down side of the new (beside the cost): fooprint: the motor mounts do not mount in the same place (on the E34, the stringers drop down; the installer had to get brackets fabricated to accommodate the forward mounts). the raw water coolant hose is 3/4" rather than 5/8" (had to remove my float switch from the shower bilge to accommodate the larger hose)( the old hose was run under the floor thru a hold cut to accommodate the original size and was inaccessible without removing the flooring. The exhaust hose had to be adapted from 1 1/2" to 1 3/4". Incoming fuel line is a different size. In effect almost everything is different. But it turned out in spite of the aggravation. Also an issue about prop size which turns out I don't need to change from 15d x 11 p (according to Michigan Wheel)

The old engine from what i could tell was fine, except for th manifold and riser (I didn't do any compression testing or anything like that) But on removing the exhaust manifold, big chunks of rusted junk fell out. I suspect this was creating backpressure and robbing me of power, beside letting coolant flow ou the exhaust. Universal wants 1350 for this piece. The rest of the motor looked fine; the impeller, water pump; heat exchanger, starter (things I pulled off to sell) looked very good.

Looking at yours, the worst part is the coupler; I removed mine 18 months ago and it was horrible; sheared off one of the set screws; had to drill it out; even then the coupler was a bear to get off the shaft. If i were in a yard and had it to do the motor decision again, I'd get a new exhaust manifold mounted and see what that does to the performance. As far as the smoke; I started using Diesel Kleen last fall; it really cleaned up the smoke and increased the cetane from 40 to 43. If you could get another year or two out of your motor, would it be worth while? Good luck.

 

[WhiteNoise]

Valinor

You make some very good points. I appreciate the insight.

I will be taking the motor apart shortly, got a bad cold which has delayed me , but once apart I will be able to evaluate the condition and make a much more educated decision.

I will submit some more pics soon.

 

[WhiteNoise]

Some new pics and questions

The project is coming along well.

I am pondering one question though ... is the motor a 5416? From everything I have read I have come to the conclusion that my motor is a 5416. I ordered the service and parts manuals and they say for model 20/5416. I had noticed a label the valve cover that said (from what I could make out) Model 18. In the manual everything looks the same for the most part but now I am concerned that maybe torx ft. lbs. specs, clearance, etc. could be for the wrong motor. I also want to be sure I order the right gaskets, parts, etc.

I do believe the model below the 5416 was raw water cooled and I know this is freshwater but I cannot find anything on the motor that says 5416.

Can anyone tell from the pics or have any insight?

 

[clayton]

5416

On my M25-XP, near the injectors is an area with the Kubota block number and serial number (D-950*****). Check there, according to the Universal history on Torrenson's, the 5416 used the Z-751 block, the M-18 used the Z-600 block. Then you can buy Kubota parts for much less. Good luck.
Clayton

 

[WhiteNoise]

Thanks!!!

That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks so much Clayton.
Great help!

 

[tilwinter]

5416

I just got back from vacation, and missed this entire thread until today.

I too have a 30+ (1981). The engine looks different in many ways from yours, but I think under all the add-ons it may be the same block.

I am jealous of your access not from the back but from the inside of the cabin. It looks like the wood box around the front of the engine compartment was much easier to remove than mine. I have been removing screws for over a year now, and I can't get that darn box free. There seem to be hidden wood screws everywhere I look.

good luck with the project and thanks for the pix.