Is a <$18,000 Ericson 38 a Financial Trap?

[Equanimity]

Hi Forum,

My name is Mike, and I’m new to the Ericson world. I have my eye on a local 1981 E38 that’s being offered for less than $18,000. I’m unsure of the structural integrity at this time, but am going to take a look at the vessel next week.

I was was hoping to get your take on whether or not, in your experience, you felt this boat is worth looking at in the first place, or not. In your experience, are offers like these usually “too good to be true?” Should I anticipate extensive hull damage? My gut is telling me that this specific boat may, quite possibly, be too difficult to salvage.

Truth be told, my knowledge is quite limited when it comes to surveying boats or this size. I do plan to overhaul whatever vessel I ultimately decide to invest in, just want to make sure I’m not getting myself in too deep from the get-go.

Thanks for for your responses!

 

[Geoff W.]

Do you have a posting? That's a low price tag but hard to give specifics without seeing specifics.

 

[Afrakes]

Experience

Are you new to sailing? Is this your first boat? If it looks promising at first glance get a professional survey.

 

[alcodiesel]

Some sailboat axiom states "For every added foot in LOA the cost of repair or maintenance increases logarithmically ."

 

[Equanimity]

Hi Guys,

Thanks is much for your replies. Here is the listing. It’s the lowest-priced offering for this length, at present. https://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1981/ericson-38-3252736/

This will be my first yacht. I’ve owned dinghies for the last several years and compete at a local race club in Ideal 18s and 420s. This is my first departure into the yachting world. My family wants an expansive cabin so there is pressure to go bigger, hence the focus on the E38. Additionally, my long term goal is do partake in some group ocean passages, perhaps in 4-5 years from now.

Right now I’m just browsing the market, seeing what’s out there, and learning what’s good and bad. All I know is that I want an Ericson, no other brand will suffice.

Any/all advice is welcomed, and I really appreciate the guidance.

 

[Tin Kicker]

Heck, I bought my 1985 32-3 for $5,500.
But then, I also had a pretty good idea of how much more than that I'd spend to get her back in proper condition and would do most work myself as a retirement project.

 

[Equanimity]

Inspiring! I am definitely open to making this a project for myself and my family. I consider myself somewhat of a craftsman and have a lot of the tools and knowhow to overhaul most components and systems.

My biggest concern is hull/core damage. Do you guys think that’s rational or should I shift my concerns elsewhere? I was told there may be some dimples which could lead to core damage.

 

[Tin Kicker]

Pretty common to find water in the cores of boats this old and it's a lot of work to fix.

If this is a first boat, I'd suggest not going for a low priced project and especially run away if you have kids in school. Boats ALWAYS need at least three times the time and expense you think they will.

 

[Loren Beach]

Wonder why the broker ad tells nothing about the engine? FWIW, the Yanmar may be newer than the hull; most of these models were built with a Universal 32 hp. Either is a good engine.
By the mid-late 80's EY did, however install a big Yanmar 3 cylinder aux in the 38, on demand.
A bit of water staining is visible below a cabin port, and that's typical for a boat of that age if no one has ever re-bedded them. This kind of neglect can sometimes make it necessary to re-veneer the cabin side.
As for deck coring, IF no one ever added any poorly-installed parts later, EY did an above average job of initially bedding their fittings. So have a good surveyor meter it and tap it... which is what they do anyway. It might be, generally, in dry condition.
The hull is solid layup, BTW -- no core there to worry about.

Check the Barient winches for function -- all together their (retail) value is likely near half the asking price.

If you have your own pix, please post them.

As for it being a "trap", well, all leisure devices could be called that, sometimes..... good thing you do not have a penchant for golf, horses, airplanes, or motor homes !

Good luck!

 

[nquigley]

I wonder if someone just got way behind on their marina storage fees. But, the red text refers to eagerness to sell 'this spring' - begs the question why it's still not sold, and it's nearly fall ... when it gets harder and harder to sell boats.
Definitely get a professional survey of hull, decks and engine.
Good Luck - looks like it could be a good deal.

 

[Leslie Newman]

All boats are financial traps. We're insane to own them. But it is hard to put into words the joy of ownership.

I owned a 1982 O'Day 34 for many years. When I bought the boat it was old and there were some wet spots on the deck. Not too bad if I had known to re-bed all the deck hardware. But I was younger and ignorant of such things. And I guess I never really loved the boat the way I have others I have owned. Anyway, the spots got worse, but still not bad. Really the iron keel was way more trouble than any other part of the boat. Anyway, used the boat a lot, never did any deck repairs and sold the boat in 2005 to a friend, totally disclosing all flaws. He still owns the boat, has NEVER re-bed any deck hardware. The deck is a total mess of squishyness. I think at some point he is just going to have the boat put through the chopper. But maybe not until the mast comes toppling down. He has had many years of fun on the boat and has not put a lot of money into it. But he just does not care about it being perfect and I guess is not planning to preserve it.

Long story, but the point is that a boat will go a very long time with flaws. You can get an awful lot of fun out of a cheap boat. Especially if you just don't worry about it being perfect. I can't do that these days. But part of my therapy is tending to the boat.

 

[Equanimity]

Wonder why the broker ad tells nothing about the engine? FWIW, the Yanmar may be newer than the hull; most of these models were built with a Universal 32 hp. Either is a good engine.
By the mid-late 80's EY did, however install a big Yanmar 3 cylinder aux in the 38, on demand.
A bit of water staining is visible below a cabin port, and that's typical for a boat of that age if no one has ever re-bedded them. This kind of neglect can sometimes make it necessary to re-veneer the cabin side.
As for deck coring, IF no one ever added any poorly-installed parts later, EY did an above average job of initially bedding their fittings. So have a good surveyor meter it and tap it... which is what they do anyway. It might be, generally, in dry condition.
The hull is solid layup, BTW -- no core there to worry about.

Check the Barient winches for function -- all together their (retail) value is likely near half the asking price.

If you have your own pix, please post them.

As for it being a "trap", well, all leisure devices could be called that, sometimes..... good thing you do not have a penchant for golf, horses, airplanes, or motor homes !

Good luck!

Hi Loren,

Thanks so much for your reply and insights. Personally, I'm looking forward to partaking in some of the repairs required to bring an e38 up to my standards. I have an appointment with the broker on Tuesday of this coming week. I'll be sure to take some pictures!

Question: Do all Ericsons from this time time period have solid layup hulls? If so, does that mean that it is more rare to encounter severe hull damage, typically found in a cored hulls of this age (at least on the east coast)?

I really appreciate you sharing the items to look out for. As mentioned, this experience is a first for me. I plan to hire an experienced Surveyor when I'm ready to "pull the trigger", but am eager to learn as much as I can before that time. If you have any book recommendations, I'd love to hear them too!

I'm excited at the prospect of taking on a project, such as this. Hopefully I can make it happen, in one way or another... I'm definitely eager!

-Mikey

 

[Equanimity]

All boats are financial traps. We're insane to own them. But it is hard to put into words the joy of ownership.

I owned a 1982 O'Day 34 for many years. When I bought the boat it was old and there were some wet spots on the deck. Not too bad if I had known to re-bed all the deck hardware. But I was younger and ignorant of such things. And I guess I never really loved the boat the way I have others I have owned. Anyway, the spots got worse, but still not bad. Really the iron keel was way more trouble than any other part of the boat. Anyway, used the boat a lot, never did any deck repairs and sold the boat in 2005 to a friend, totally disclosing all flaws. He still owns the boat, has NEVER re-bed any deck hardware. The deck is a total mess of squishyness. I think at some point he is just going to have the boat put through the chopper. But maybe not until the mast comes toppling down. He has had many years of fun on the boat and has not put a lot of money into it. But he just does not care about it being perfect and I guess is not planning to preserve it.

Long story, but the point is that a boat will go a very long time with flaws. You can get an awful lot of fun out of a cheap boat. Especially if you just don't worry about it being perfect. I can't do that these days. But part of my therapy is tending to the boat.

I love your story, Leslie. My hope is that I can pick up something affordable and bring it up to a high standard over a multi-year period. Very inspiring to hear that a boat can go far without much care. That definitely takes off 'some' of the pressure.

This project, for me, will also serve as a form of "therapy". I'm excited to dedicate my weekends to the craft.

Best,
Mikey

 

[Loren Beach]

Question: Do all Ericsons from this time time period have solid layup hulls? If so, does that mean that it is more rare to encounter severe hull damage, typically found in a cored hulls of this age (at least on the east coast)?

-Mikey

I have heard that some EY hull sections did have some coring in the bow sections, maybe the racing-oriented 70's 34. Perhaps.

AFAIK all of the 80's hull series (26+ thru 38-200) were solid layup. My '88 O-34 is also solid layup, and that was one reason we wanted one.
FWIW, all makes of boats intended for continuous ocean sailing will have the forward sections stiffened - internal structure or coring (C&C used to use some coring in their bow sections).

If you find a repair on most boats, the cause was likely a collision. i.e. "point loading" that fractured the laminate. The laminate was ground back and new cloth was laid in. Hardest part of the work is matching the gel coat!
This is different from the force of five foot waves repeatedly slamming into the bow sections during a 24 kt wind afternoon off the coast, driving to windward. A well engineered and built boat will resist those waves with no problem. The crew, however, may need some motion sickness meds....

 

[Christian Williams]

This is a bigger project than it looks and a 38 is a big first boat.

Tempting, though.

Just be sure not to have a job, small kids to take up your time, or a credit card balance.

 

[Tin Kicker]

This is a bigger project than it looks and a 38 is a big first boat.

Tempting, though.

Just be sure not to have a job, small kids to take up your time, or a credit card balance.

Says the retired guy with time,
with lots of experience,
who still needed a year,
with a boat that was in solid condition to begin.

As I understand.

 

[Loren Beach]

This is a bigger project than it looks and a 38 is a big first boat.

Tempting, though.

Just be sure not to have a job, small kids to take up your time, or a credit card balance.

Heh!
One of our posters here sails a lovely restored E-35-2 in SF.
He said that you need three things to own a boat: Time, Money, and Skill. "Any two will do!"

 

[kiwisailor]

Well my first boat was a 1981 E38 and I under estimated the time and cost to get up to the condition and systems that I wanted. Keep in mind I've set my boat for cruising and on board comfort. If you are just looking for a quick racing or weekend sailing boat you probably could make it work for not a lot of extra $$.

 

[Geoff W.]

Just as one example that I've learned on my own boat, the cushions and fabric on that boat look super tired. Definitely original fabric, so almost guaranteed original foam as well. It will crush when you sit on it, so your butt will be more in contact with the seatboards than the foam itself. They may even worn enough to be uncomfortable for any length of seated time.

Replacing them all yourself, if you already know how to sew cushions and cut foam and have the equipment, will take you well over 100 hours of work. Christian or other sew-men can confirm or deny this fact. Paying an upholsterer to do this for you can run into 1000's of dollars of labor, not to mention new foam and fabric, which will double the labor cost, just about. Quotes to redo my entire boat have run from $4k - $8k all up.

And that's just cushions - not structural issues, engine problems, rigging, water damage, woodwork, and so on.

It is super seductive when you start dreaming about this wonderfully refit boat that you will bring up to bristol condition with your own two hands, but I think that dream ignores the cold reality of what 100-200 hours in front of a sewing machine actually looks like spread out over your entire summer, fall, and/or winter.

 

[Equanimity]

This is a bigger project than it looks and a 38 is a big first boat.

Tempting, though.

It is super seductive when you start dreaming about this wonderfully refit boat that you will bring up to bristol condition with your own two hands, but I think that dream ignores the cold reality of what 100-200 hours in front of a sewing machine actually looks like spread out over your entire summer, fall, and/or winter.

This is the truth. I need to accept this.

You're making me want to throw a spreadsheet together and tabulate the estimated man hours. I have some friends who may be able to provide some of their own time/skills to help with the project - carpenters, metal fabricators, upholstery shop owners. It may be a bit of a pipe dream to think that my profession-skilled friends would be willing to help me out for minimal financial return, but it is something I am going to try to start with.

I like Christian's advice via Youtube... "Look for reasons not to buy it" - After brief reflection, I suppose the words that I shared above demonstrate the opposite. haha - more reflection still required, but in my heart of hearts I believe this is something very possible in my life right now.

I'm open for any feedback/criticism that you would love to impart to a "first-time future boat owner"