That must be the point where the labor rate goes to $300/hr
Kinleven Mast Ladder and Mast Climbing Options [Master Thread]
- Thread starter Sailingfun
- Start date
Scott B.
Member
Holy crap! Nothing looks right about that. Especially the forestay attached by only a fragment of a cotter pin, at best. What a lucky discovery before something really bad happened! This reinforces my need to find out what's going on at the top of my mast; it hasn't been inspected for a long time.
"Sir, you really need to change that cotter pin."
Sailingfun
Member III
Mental note: Use my son's drone to check pin and mast top condition before go up there...
2 mental note: Install a good half-moon block at the top for safety reasons.
Whit technology there are no reason to sweat anymore checking mast top
Mark David
Member II
slightly off topic, but I appreciate Butch's photo to help explain to others why we step the mast every year....and why they should
This is one of those threads that reminds you of a problem you didn't even know you had. I always had someone hoist me up on the main halyard. If I was feeling extra precautious, I'd drop the headsail and use it's halyard for a backup line tended by a third person. I never thought about the overrides we experience from time time time happing when we have someone up the mast.
I work with a few tower climbers who are experts in rigging, so I ran this past them and they said the Gri gri & ascender was a great setup. We gathered up a few REI gift cards and dividend checks we had forgotten about and built a decent setup.
Everyone in the family took turns trying it out in the garage before we tried it out this past weekend. I can't believe how much of a difference it makes. Being self sufficient and in control brings some confidence I didn't know I was missing.
Eventually, I would like to purchase a dedicated sit harness (we're currently using climbing harnesses). I also tried the bosuns chair with the climbing independently clipped into the Gri gri carabiner. It was more comfortable than the climbing harness alone, but it's more complicated than I like. Another improvement will be purchasing a longer static line I can temporarily replace the halyard instead of tying it to the halyard (we ended up with 3' lost at the top of the mast with the loop to loop connection). This was a huge improvement that's only going to get better. Thanks once again to this group for providing some great advice!
I work with a few tower climbers who are experts in rigging, so I ran this past them and they said the Gri gri & ascender was a great setup. We gathered up a few REI gift cards and dividend checks we had forgotten about and built a decent setup.
Everyone in the family took turns trying it out in the garage before we tried it out this past weekend. I can't believe how much of a difference it makes. Being self sufficient and in control brings some confidence I didn't know I was missing.
Eventually, I would like to purchase a dedicated sit harness (we're currently using climbing harnesses). I also tried the bosuns chair with the climbing independently clipped into the Gri gri carabiner. It was more comfortable than the climbing harness alone, but it's more complicated than I like. Another improvement will be purchasing a longer static line I can temporarily replace the halyard instead of tying it to the halyard (we ended up with 3' lost at the top of the mast with the loop to loop connection). This was a huge improvement that's only going to get better. Thanks once again to this group for providing some great advice!
Yup - that's exactly the solution I came up with several years ago after seeing lots of arborist videos and caving videos. It was fun putting the components together and learning to use them.
I use a spare halyard as my back-up (usually the spinnaker), tied at intervals to a carabiner on the harness using alpine butterfly knots - and an adjustable tether/lanyard around the mast, anchored to life-safe soft loops on either hip of the harness.
I can highly recommend the New Tribe Tengu harness for comfort, features and safety.
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u079721
Contributing Partner
Since we're talking going up the mast, I thought I would post a link to an article I wrote on the subject a few years ago, published in Good Old Boat and Ocean Navigator. Using any type of mast ladder system scared me to death, so of all the techniques available I preferred a climbing harness and a 3:1 pulley system to hoist myself aloft. When possible I used a separate halyard as a static safety line.
goodoldboat.com
Up the Mast | Good Old Boat
goodoldboat.com
Butch Bogan
Member I
That's a really nice setup. Good on 'ya for using locking carabiners.
If you all keep this up I'll be out of a job soon.
If you all keep this up I'll be out of a job soon.
jtsai
Member III
I like it! Would you mind sharing the individual REI parts used in the system?
Here's what I purchase:
- Petzl Ascension Ascender - https://www.rei.com/product/884290/petzl-ascension-ascender-right
- 2 x Petzl Attache 3D Screw Locking carabiner - https://www.rei.com/product/871109/petzl-attache-3d-screw-lock-carabiner
- Petzl GRIGRI + Belay Device - https://www.rei.com/product/111233/petzl-grigri-belay-device
- Petzl Oscillante Pully - https://www.rei.com/product/799041/petzl-oscillante-pulley
- Black Diamond RockLock Twistlock carabiner - https://www.rei.com/product/169033/black-diamond-rocklock-twistlock-carabiner
- (Not available at REI) Petzl Footape Foot Loop - https://www.amazon.com/PETZL-C47A-F...ocphy=9033382&hvtargid=pla-391182562296&psc=1
- Static 10mm rope. I didn’t want to climb on the halyard because the Ascender is pretty aggressive. I don’t recommend the rope I purchased (Tree climbing site) and would just go with Sampson XLS or equivalent when I replace it.
- I used a Harken Bosuns chair with my climbing harness. The GRIGRI was attached to the Bosuns chair as well as my harness with a small loop and additional carabiner. A sit harness by itself would be better if you are building from scratch though.
hah - it took too long to type this ... trickdhat got in first. Maybe my list will help too - looks very similar.
Gri Gri
www.rei.com
Screw link to connect main central loop on harness with GriGri (I prefer the triangular style to the oval style because it gives more room for other things connected to this loop):
www.rei.com
Ascender (just need one - get the left one if you're right-handed and vice-versa - you'll probably prefer to pull down on the climbing line with your stronger arm):
www.rei.com
2-3 locking carabiners:
www.rei.com
I use an auto-locking one like this for attaching the GriGri to the main loop on my harness:
www.rei.com
I use these a pair of these magnetic auto-locking ones for attaching my around-the-mast lanyard to the sides of my harness:
www.rei.com
Also: You'll want to get a few additional life-rated carabiners for miscellaneous tasks and back-ups (basic screw-gate and wire-gate types).
- Don't take any non-life-rated carabiners up the mast.
Small open-top pulley for the climbing rope turn at the ascender:
www.rei.com
Large oval carabiner (to connect the small pulley with the safety hole at the top of the ascender):
www.rei.com
Foot loop: (I actually use two, but you can use just on - on your stronger leg) - there might be other cheaper versions
Climbing line & note:
- get a length of rock climbing line that's ~8-10' longer than the height of your masthead above the deck
- make sure it's size is compatible with the specs of the GriGri (and the small pulley)
- I think I got Bluewater 10mm
- tie it to your main halyard with a bowline-to-bowline connection (don't use the halyard's shackle), haul the halyard all the way to the masthead sheeve and tie it with reasonable tension and very securely on-deck, then climb on the climbing line: the ascender has very aggressive teeth that will wear out your halyard.
- Don't push the ascender all the way to the bowline a teh top - leave about 2-3" above it on the climbing line ... you'll need this gap to disengage the ascender when it's time to come down
Gri Gri
gri gri at REI | REI Co-op
Petzl Triangular Screw Link | REI Co-op
Made with a wide opening for use with rope, the Petzl Triangular Screw Link is a compact, lightweight alternative to carabiners for semi-permanent attachments.
petzl ascender at REI | REI Co-op
locking carabiner at REI | REI Co-op
Petzl AM'D Triact Autolocking Carabiner | REI Co-op
The Petzl AM'D Triact is an asymmetric (D-shaped) aluminum, autolocking carabiner that's best-suited for connecting a belay system or for holding equipment.
Black Diamond Magnetron RockLock Locking Carabiner | REI Co-op
The Black Diamond Magnetron RockLock locking carabiner uses the power of magnets to give you the security of a locking carabiner with incredible ease of use.
- Don't take any non-life-rated carabiners up the mast.
Small open-top pulley for the climbing rope turn at the ascender:
C.A.M.P. Sphinx Small Fixed Pulley | REI Co-op
This super-compact, ultralight pulley with fixed side plates is very easy to handle and convenient to carry on a harness while ski touring or mountaineering.
Black Diamond Oval Carabiner | REI Co-op
The iconic Black Diamond Oval carabiner stands the test of time. Now updated with a snag-free keylock design, this symmetrical carabiner with a large rope-bearing surface is even easier to use.
Climbing line & note:
- get a length of rock climbing line that's ~8-10' longer than the height of your masthead above the deck
- make sure it's size is compatible with the specs of the GriGri (and the small pulley)
- I think I got Bluewater 10mm
- tie it to your main halyard with a bowline-to-bowline connection (don't use the halyard's shackle), haul the halyard all the way to the masthead sheeve and tie it with reasonable tension and very securely on-deck, then climb on the climbing line: the ascender has very aggressive teeth that will wear out your halyard.
- Don't push the ascender all the way to the bowline a teh top - leave about 2-3" above it on the climbing line ... you'll need this gap to disengage the ascender when it's time to come down
It's good to see the similarities in our systems. I like the auto locking carabiners instead of my screw type and I really like the idea of a non locking carabiner for the pully.
I didn't mention it in my list, but I have a strap connecting to the bottom of the ascender to my harness so I don't accidently drop it when I'm derigging to come down.
Great point on the Left vs Right Ascender too. My wife is left handed and I'm right, we went with the right handed model thinking I would use it more, but we quickly figured out why you should go opposite when we rigged it up in the garage.
One more change I would like to do in the future is purchase a rope long enough to completely replace the halyard. I used figure 8 follow throughs to tie the ropes together, but this leaves about 3' of unusable line at the top of the mast. It also doesn't eliminate any halyard chafe from the system.
I didn't mention it in my list, but I have a strap connecting to the bottom of the ascender to my harness so I don't accidently drop it when I'm derigging to come down.
Great point on the Left vs Right Ascender too. My wife is left handed and I'm right, we went with the right handed model thinking I would use it more, but we quickly figured out why you should go opposite when we rigged it up in the garage.
One more change I would like to do in the future is purchase a rope long enough to completely replace the halyard. I used figure 8 follow throughs to tie the ropes together, but this leaves about 3' of unusable line at the top of the mast. It also doesn't eliminate any halyard chafe from the system.
Good points.
Yes - I also have a strap of 1" webbing tied to the bottom of the ascender for the same reason (great minds?)
Very good idea to just get an extra full-length halyard as the climbing line - could be used as a back-up halyard, or for all sorts of other purposes.
If you just need to go aloft to make a quick retrieval or repair, you may not need a Cadillac system. The minimalist route might be:
- harness
- 2 harness-prussiks & a locking carabiner
- dual-loop foot-prussik
- chest-loop and non-locking carabiner
The rope prussiks don't abrade so you can use your existing lines (if in good shape). The second harness-prussik is for a backup halyard/line.
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Slick470
Member III
Similar to several here I use a system with a grigri, pulley, ascender, and footloops. I have some rock climbing background so a lot of this gear was already familiar to me. When I was trying to figure out the method I wanted to use, I found that Allen over at L-36 had done some videos and writeups on the various systems he's tried. It is an interesting rabbit hole to run down. Here is his writeup on the method I use: https://l-36.com/more_mast_climbing.php
I use a static climbing rope since it has little give over a dynamic rope and it was cheaper than a sailing line equivalent. I keep my whole setup in a climbing line bag so it is contained and easy to grab if needed. I also use a climbing harness 95% of the time. I also own a bosun's chair, but I only use it if I know I'm going to be in one place for a while and I wear it along with the harness.
Allen at L-36 has reviewed a few of the common mast climbing methods and he's evolved his system a bit over several tries (and invested quite a bit in gear), so it's fun to go through the whole series if you have the time and interest:
Article 1: https://l-36.com/mast_climbing.php
Article 2: https://l-36.com/mast_climbing_2.php
Article 3: https://l-36.com/unassisted_mast_climbing.php
Article 4: https://l-36.com/more_mast_climbing.php This is the article I led with above that shows pretty much the method I use.
Article 5: https://l-36.com/UltimateMastClimbing.php
For those that aren't familiar with L-36. The site owner Allen has lots of articles about a lot of stuff sailing related. I've traded a few messages with him over the years to help me understand something better but also to make suggestions on how to improve some of his stuff. I use is weather page often since it is is a pretty nice aggregator. He's also built up a pretty nice collection of manuals on his site.
I use a static climbing rope since it has little give over a dynamic rope and it was cheaper than a sailing line equivalent. I keep my whole setup in a climbing line bag so it is contained and easy to grab if needed. I also use a climbing harness 95% of the time. I also own a bosun's chair, but I only use it if I know I'm going to be in one place for a while and I wear it along with the harness.
Allen at L-36 has reviewed a few of the common mast climbing methods and he's evolved his system a bit over several tries (and invested quite a bit in gear), so it's fun to go through the whole series if you have the time and interest:
Article 1: https://l-36.com/mast_climbing.php
Article 2: https://l-36.com/mast_climbing_2.php
Article 3: https://l-36.com/unassisted_mast_climbing.php
Article 4: https://l-36.com/more_mast_climbing.php This is the article I led with above that shows pretty much the method I use.
Article 5: https://l-36.com/UltimateMastClimbing.php
For those that aren't familiar with L-36. The site owner Allen has lots of articles about a lot of stuff sailing related. I've traded a few messages with him over the years to help me understand something better but also to make suggestions on how to improve some of his stuff. I use is weather page often since it is is a pretty nice aggregator. He's also built up a pretty nice collection of manuals on his site.
I envy your
Nice set up! I envy the simplicity. It's pretty cool what people can accomplish with some rope and enginuity. We should all have some loops around for making prussiks to unload an override regardless of our mast climbing setups.
I was looking at YT videos today about tree-climbing SRT methods to show a distant sailing friend how my mast-climbing system works, and found this (rather hokey) demo.
It's almost exactly my system, but I use longer foot loops so I can fully straighten my legs each cycle (and as I said above, I use a pair of foot loops.) I've used this system and this equipment essentially unchanged for almost 4 years now.
Felicity
Member II
Last year when I was rigging my C&C 34 for a big trip (by my standards, 600NM) I went up the bosun chair, with my electirican cranking me up, but he had a back issue, and I had a schedule issue. So I went up instead of him, to do some basic electrical This was far from a perfect plan, as winching is not a back friendly activity. It went ok, but I promised myself never again, would I be so dependent on another person for being able to get up the mast.
Fast forward 2022, sold the C&C, bought an Ericson 38-200. I settled on this mast ladder:
recoverymarine.com
I have yet to try it, but happy with the construction and price point. Obviously a security line will always be part of the equation.
Fast forward 2022, sold the C&C, bought an Ericson 38-200. I settled on this mast ladder:
Mast Ladder 50 Foot - Sailboat Mast Ladder and Rescue Ladder
Sooner or later, you have to go up the mast. Recovery Marine's Mast Ladder is an easy-climbing 50-foot alternating-step, flexible ladder made of two-inch (2-inch) wide nylon webbing with a sewn tensile strength of 3,000 pounds. And yet, it still easily packs into a compact bag. You will need to...
recoverymarine.com