Lazy Jack

[Jim Payton]

I started sailing single handed lately. My wife is my firstmate and she is my only mate, but alas she suffers from motion sickness and as such she doesn't have the same enthusiasm that I do for the sea. She still sails with me but those occassions are far and few between. So this brings me to my delima.
I need to find the best and easiest way to stow the main sail while sailing single handed. I have done a google search for several days on the word "lazy jack" and can find nothing specific. I'm really not interested in buying some prefab thing for several hundred dollars if I can simply rig something myself that will work.
My main goal is to stow the main while I am approaching dock or slip, so that the folds of the main stay out of the way of the view of the helmsman (me).
my boat is an older E-26.

Jim of Doldrums

 

[tilwinter]

Lazy jacks

There is a very good description of how to construct your own lazy jacks in "Good Old Boat" about two years ago. I had a rigger construct a similar system for my E30+ and it works quite well. You should avoid any fancy hardware; all you need is line and some stainless steel rings, as well as two cleats. Specifically, the Harken system is overly technical and over priced, imho.

Rod Johnson Til Winter e30+

 

[Seth]

Lazy Jacks

For a boat of your size there is little justification for any of the more sophisticated systems (Dutchman, pre-fab systems, etc), and you can make up a very suitable lazyjack system as tilwinter describes.
If you would like more specifics you can contact me directly.
Happy holidays!
S

 

[Jim Payton]

Thanks

Thanks Seth, I was able to find Good Old Boats web site and found the article that tilwinter was talking about. I've already order a copy of that issue and can't wait to see what the author sugests.

 

[Loren Beach]

"The Main, In Spain, Falls Mainly on... the cabintop..."

http://www.ezjax.com/index.html

Here is the URL for the "ezjax" system. Invented by a sailor (now semi-retired) living near Portland. I have sailed quite a bit on an Ericson 33 with this system. I like the way it retracts to the mast. An un-planned benefit also was the way it acts as a topping lift to stabilize the boom when getting ready to hoist, on a boat with a rod vang.
You could work out the measurements and geometry to make your own version, for the same or less money. The nice thing about this product is that, with your accurate boom and rig measurements, it will work right the first time. I have no connection with the company, but have talked with the inventor several times at local boat shows, over the years. Dick is a nice guy, and deserves the modest (nich market...) success he has achieved.
The trick, if doing your own calculations, is to get the lines snug on each side of the gooseneck, when stored. If doing a home-grown version, you could mock it up with small line first, before doing the splicing on the larger stuff...

Best,
Loren in PDX

 

[tilwinter]

Lazy Jacks

I looked at the EZJack system, and was about to buy it, when the article came out in Good Old Boat. It is worth reading, because he does an excellent job of explaining some of the variables involved. I showed it to my rigger, and he said his system is almost identicle to the one in Good Old Boat, which also retracts to the mast when not in use. Because each leg runs free under the boom to its opposite leg, precise measurements tend to be less critical. Plus, he was able to build it for less than I would have had to spend for the components, even with his labor.

Rod Johnson Til Winter E30+

 

[Jim Payton]

Good Old Boat

I just received my back issue of Good Old Boat (July/August, 2001). What a cool magazine. They also sent a free copy of the current issue. I haven't had time to look at either one yet, but as soon as I can find out about the Lazy Jack article, I'll post what I learn.

 

[John Bouchard]

Lazy John...

I think you'll like the article in Good Old Boat, as it describes the system and pitfalls pretty well.

My wife was always at the tiller when I would drop the main, and she didn't like steering when she couldn't see...go figure!

This was on my previous boat, a Pearson 27 ft. Renegade. Anyway, a friend, who just happened to sail an Ericson 29, showed me the system that he had installed. It only cost about $20 in line, ss rings, and some plastic eyelets. The eyes were spaced out on either side of the boom, and one continuous line on each side ran up to the ss ring and back to the next eye on the boom. The ss ring was spliced onto the end of an additional line that ran up the side(s) of the mast to a flush block ( I forget the technical term).

This system worked pretty well for me - and it was easy to lower the ss rings down to the gooseneck area and tie it off when not in use. I've attached a photo that shows the "Lazy John" up (but not to show the detail... it is not a close up! And, the sail is tied also...).

If more detail is desired, just let me know!

 

[Geoff Johnson]

You should also consider getting an autopilot. I don't like the look of lazy jacks so I use the autopilot when single handing and stow the sail away from land.

 

[u079721]

Just a hint from Brio Toss's web site on lazy jacks. He recommends mounting the upper attachment point on the underside of the lower spreaders, about half way out. This widens the distance between the lines up high, and reduces the tendancy of battens to catch on the lines.

 

[Loren Beach]

About the spreader mounting idea...

Since many of us nowadays have rod vangs, the lazyjacks (or Easyjax version) is our only way of controling the movement of the boom from side to side as the boat rolls in the waves while we get ready to hoist, or are in the process of lowering. This means that the lazyjacks are (temporarily) acting as a boom topping lift.
Once the sail is hoisted there is no problem, because the position is held by sail tension on top and mainsheet tension below. When dropping, the boom is swinging back and forth until the halyard is unclipped from the headboard and clipped to the end of the boom and tensioned.

I would not want to put that kind of stress on a spreader -- it is not engineered for it at all.
And even if you endevour not to put too much tension on your lazyjacks when they are attached to spreaders, that changes in a heartbeat when one of the crew, trying to put on gaskets, loses his/her balance and falls/grabs onto the moving boom and puts all their weight on it.....

This could also bend the boom if the crew weight is out near the end and the rod vang is compressed all the way.

Just some additional .02 worth...
Loren

 

[Geoff Johnson]

I forgot to mention that in addition to using an autopilot, I secure the boom amidships with a line to a rail cleat before dropping the main. This makes the process a one person job.

 

[Seth]

careful, tiger

Be careful to keep the boat head to wind when you do this. If "Otto" takes a holiday when you are dropping the sail and it fills, you are going to have a problem.
Safe sailing!

 

[Jim Payton]

For about $30

Well, I made a lazy jack by following the instructions in the "Good Old Boat" article. It was pretty simple to make. I spent about $30 on supplies and spent about 2 hours splicing and tying things together.
Suprisingly enough it works. I wouldn't call it a stellar solution though. It works just, "OK". There were a few problems with raising the sail too. The stays get all caught up in the lines of the lazy jack. I attached everything to the mast and boom with cord and duct tape because I didn't want to drill any holes if it wasn't going to work.
I'm still not convinced that it is the best answer. My problem is when I am docking. I sail in San Diego Bay. It can be very busy on Saturday afternoon, especially around any public dock, and there are several within the bay. I made it my policy to never sail into a slip or dock. I will always dock under power, not because I can't dock under sail, but becuase I have had a few incidences where some weekend sailer (mostly power boaters or jet skiers) didn't follow protocol and created a problem for others trying to dock. I simply want to have the ability to back away from any thing that might come up.
This is where the problem is. I need to drop the sail just before I dock and if there is no way to keep the sail out of my line of sight it can be hazardous to me and anybody standing on the dock.

 

[Sven]

Re: For about $30

Originally posted by Jim Payton
... I made it my policy to never sail into a slip or dock. ... I simply want to have the ability to back away from any thing that might come up.

Two weekends ago; we came back to MDR and as we get ready to glide into our slip we find an idiot who had just tied up his beat-up outboard boat in our slip and is covering it with a tarp !

Boy was I happy that we were not sailing and could put the engine in reverse ! We had nowhere to go but back out while he scurried to get out of there.



-Sven

 

[Jim Payton]

Sven,
Thats my point exactly. I often sail at night, and come back to my slip after dark and have found that "someone" has used my slip to go ashore to some local resturaunt or something. Sometimes neighbors put their dingys in empty slips while they perform maintenance on their yachts, etc. I try not to get anoyed but it is very anoying.

 

[Sven]

Originally posted by Jim Payton
Sven,
Thats my point exactly. I often sail at night, and come back to my slip after dark and have found that "someone" has used my slip to go ashore to some local resturaunt or something. Sometimes neighbors put their dingys in empty slips while they perform maintenance on their yachts, etc. I try not to get anoyed but it is very anoying.

I'm looking into the possibility of installing torpedo tubes.



-Sven

 

[Jim Payton]

New Aproach

Ok,
I just found another article in Jan./Feb. 2004 issue of "Good Old Boat" - Titled "Cinderella and the Dutchman". Seems to be an article about mainsail handling. I haven't read the whole article yet, but what I've read mentions a couple of different mainsail handling systems. The system that looks a bit promising is called Dutchman's sail flaking system.
Does anyone have any experience with this system?

There is a web reference : <http://clients.sailnet.com/dutchman/sailflaking/sfindex.htm>

I'll do some research and if the price is right (I'm really cheap!) I'll try it out.

 

[Mike.Gritten]

Dutchman Sail Flaking system

Jim,

We have lazy jacks on our boat, but, when I buy a new mainsail in a year or two it will have Dutchman flaking. I have used it extensively on a Catalina 28 operated by a sailing school I used to work with. Operation was, in a word, wonderful! The sail folds itself nicely, flaking evenly onto the boom. You only have to worry about the last few feet as the sail comes down. Takes all the drama out of it...bummer!

 

[Guy Stevens]

Not bad But:

The Dutchman system isn't bad, but it also isn't worth the extra cost in my opinion, there is a lot of complexity to deal with that isn't immediately apparent. and it doesn't work well on all boats.

First the costs:

Mainsail conversion at a sailmaker or a new mainsail.
New Sail cover of conversion of sail cover you already have as the fishing line has to come through the sail cover.
Topping lift needs to be of a type that lowers from the top which is another replacement cost on boats that already have a pendant type topping lift.
If you have a rigid boom vang you have to have a topping lift anyway if you want the dutchman system. (Elimination of the topping lift is one of the great advantages of a rigid vang) The fishing line has to be suspended from the topping lift.

The fishing line does break, and it does get jammed.

The system works, but the level of cost and complexity to solve the problems seem too complex for my personal taste. Other people love them.

Personally I don't like the way that they interface with the mainsail. or all the additional holes that have to be cut in the mainsail to support them.

A well designed set of classical lazy jacks are only deployed when you lower or reef the sail, other wise they are not in the way.

Hope this makes sense, I have my eyes dilated from a eye doctor appointment, and can't really see what I am typing.

Guy