Lazy Jacks

[bigtyme805]

I need some practical information on Lazy Jacks. I want to install them on my E-27 without modifying my sail cover. My investigation has led me to two companies, Jiffy Jacks and Schaefer that don't require sail modifying.

Any additional information on these would be great or any other brands. Please Help!

 

[bigtyme805]

I just saw the thread on Lazy Jacks, should have did a search first. Any info on Schaefer lazy Jacks would be great, nobody touched on that.

 

[Dave Hussey]

If you get any good replies and suggestions, please forward them to me too. I also have an E27 and since I sail single handed, lazy jacks would be an excellent modification.

 

[BrianP]

I also have an e-27 (hang loose) I have traditional lazy jacks but have run all controll lines to mast down and to the cock pit. I am still fine tunining this set up with help from an old sailing friend of mine who set up his bristol 30 the same way who single hands his boat. I won't be able to give it the full test till spring now but If it works as well as it does on the Bristol I'll be happy.

 

[Guy Stevens]

Build your own

Cheaper, custom to your boat, and done right....

http://www.boatus.com/goodoldboat/tamers.htm

Guy

 

[Rob Hessenius]

Schaefer Lazy Jacks

I have Schaefer Lazy Jacks. You can stow them easily when under sail or tuck them away at the dock. You have to go up to the mast to do so. I put a new sail cover on last year, but after a month or so, I had the cover modified/cut to deal with Jacks. Only because I found it to be a pain in my ass to deal with. I keep the jacks deployed almost all the time, only stowing them when I race. Rob Hessenius

 

[bigtyme805]

I single hand a lot but I do not need to have these lines led into the cockpit, that is why I employ an autopilot. My real need is for flaking the sail quickly and reefing quickly. I bought a new main sail with full battens and gosh is it crisp. Takes way to long to get the straps around it. This is my real reason to install lazy jacks. After talking to Kim S on this site she highly recommends jiffy jax, and after looking at their site I am going to go this route. Schaefer does not have enough info about them.

I read the article Guy wrote and it was great. I learned a lot. Just don't have time to do my own.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Permanent Lazy Jacks.

Don, I tend to agree with Rob, as my Lazy Jacks are fixed and don't collapse to the mast. I too have had my sail cover modified to accept the lines and don't find it difficult at all getting the sail up through the lines. The trick (if you'd call it that) is to motor dead into the wind and raise the sail with the main sheet very slack which allows the boom to move one way or the other as the sail goes up. I also find sometimes that a slight push helps the boom to move into place. I should say that my lines are led aft so positioning the boom is no trouble, but it occurs to me that one could do the same with the boom if standing at the mast. An anecdotal story emreges here. I had a new cover and a bunch of other canvas stuff made in June while attending the NW Ericson Rendezvous and told the chap not to make sail cover until the brand new main was done and on, and until I added a fourth set of Jacks at the aft. Well he went ahead anyway, had to then add 3 inches to the bottom of the cover (looks fine) and also had to add the keyholes for the last set. So I'm standing there in the boat on the port side of the new sail cover showing him where I wanted the pair of keyhole(s)....."I want it right here". A week later I met him at the boat to see the new keyhole, was happy and gave him the second half of the check (total was $5,400.00). A week after that I took the cover off to go sailing to discover that he'd only added one keyhole to the port side, just where I'd indicated, but not a matching one on the starboard side. I'd given him the other half of the money when seeing the seventh one (assuming that there was a mate to it on the other side) and almost four months later he's still refusing to return my calls to come back to add the eighth one. He used the most expensive and thickest, top-of-the line isingglass(sp?) window material but it has ripples in several places and he refuses to fix that, or to add the three lousy snaps we agreed on to the edges of the insert between my new Bimini to new dodger that he also made. So it's off to another canvas place to have cockpit cushions made and to have the keyhole and snaps added. Alert to locals: Don't deal with Leon's Canvas Shop, rant over!! Glyn, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

 

[Loren Beach]

The real E-Z Jax !

http://www.ezjax.com/index.html

Here is the web site for E-Z-Jax. A real nice local guy invented, patented, and started producing them out of his home near Portland more than a decade ago.
They work great and I have seen and used this system on local boats. I believe that the founder is now in his 80's and a relative runs the business.

It's interesting to see how many others sell knock-offs with no real fear of patent enforcement from such a small company with severely-limited $ resources.

The process of doing the math, or simply making a mockup out of mason's twine and some rings and adjusting the line lengths until it can be stored by the mast gooseneck is something that any patient sailor can do, however. I have friends that have done so on their own boat.

In practice, it works fast and efficiently -- to deploy or to store. I suppose, with any such system, there are some nano-knots of speed to weather lost due to the extra small lines causing additional turbulence around the lower part of the mast.


Who, me? Nope. Our main still falls all over the cabin top, we lash it loosely until we get back to the dock, and then do a tight furl...
(Yeah, it's somewhere on the project list, but still below the "top ten")


Loren in PDX
Olson 34 Fresh Air

 

[G Kiba]

Don,
I went on the cheep with my lazy jacks. They seem to work fine and i didn't have to modify the sail cover. I too have a new main and single hand often.

I bought some good 1/4 line, two rings (about 1" diameter) and two small padeyes.

I screwed a padeye on each side of the mast about 2-3' above the spreaders. Then, tied a seperate line to each padeye with a ring secured on the opposite end. To capture the main above the boom, another line is tied to the forward most bail and routed upward through the ring then down and aft tied to the aft most bail on the boom. This is done on both sides.

-The line does not just pass through the ring. It makes 3 to 4 turns around its circumference before heading down to the aft bail. Doing this reduces wear on the line and allows you to adjust the lengths of the legs of the triangle that keep the sail above the boom.

It sounds complex here but in reality it is a very simple design. Maybe that's why it works so well. Uno the "KISS" philosophy "Keep-it Simple-..."

BTW! None of this is of my thinking. I saw it done on a new Beneteau 323 in the marina.

Grant Kiba
'73 E27, #406
Brentwood, CA

 

[Frank Langer]

Grant, could you post a picture or perhaps a diagram of your set-up? It sounds good, but a bit hard to picture, and I think if it's not done just right, it may not work as well as yours seems to.
thanks,
Frank

 

[G Kiba]

Sure. I'll be at the boat tomorrow.

 

[u079721]

When it comes to rigging lazy jacks, the one change I would suggest from what has been mentioned up to now is the placement of the upper attachment point.

Both the Dashews and Master Rigger Brion Toss recommend rigging the lazy jacks from the outboard end of the lower spreaders. This is lower than usual, but it gets the sails out of the lazy jacks quickly when hoisting, and helps keep the batten ends from getting caught.

 

[Frank Langer]

Steve, do you have any idea how they would be attached at the end of the spreaders, so as not to interfere with the spreader boots, and to avoid sail chafe from lines or metal fittings?
Thanks for any additional information.
Frank.

 

[Guy Stevens]

6"-8" is generally sufficient

Gerneally 6 to 8" maybe even a foot out from the mast on the spreaders is sufficient to make raising the sails a lot easier, and it also gets rid of the banging of the control lines and the lazy jacks when pulled back. You can go all the way out to the ends of the spreaders, but it does pose some problems.

If you have the lazy jacks attached to the ends of the spreaders, and you drop the topping lift while the lazy jacks are tight and sheet in the main, you will most certainly pull the spreaders down. With a foot or less out from the mast, your leverage is such that you generally notice that something is going wrong well before you pull the spreaders down.

Also don't feel limited to the lower spreaders... Use some higher tech line and take them up to the upper spreaders if that angle works better on your boat.

Guy

 

[Frank Langer]

Guy, that sounds like very good advice, and should work!
Frank.

 

[Seth]

Guy's got it

I agree you need to be careful about getting too far out there on the spreaders. If you feel the need, try it as a temporary set up and see if it makes a big difference-but as Guy says-be very aware of what you are pulling on in the different directions so you don't put the wrong load on the spreader.

If it does help enough to make you change, go with the very thin high tech line lashed a few times around the spreader-leaving a loop in the line for a block for the lazy jacks-or if you are securing one end of them to the spreader-use the line instead of a metal fitting-this should solve any interference/chafe issues.

Then, stay as close to the inboard end as you can get away with-on both spreaders (although the higher you go, less less you need/want to be more outboard).

My fear, like Guys' is that this might lead to some of the less attentive among us to do some damage to the spreaders...

Thanks,

 

[Frank Langer]

Seth, do you know approximately how strong those spreaders are (for example on my E30+ or on a E32) to give us an idea of what they might be able to handle?

For example, I have observed a small adult male standing on spreaders (of a c&c 27 for example) while working and in a bosun chair--both feet were planted on either side of the mast, not further out. Is this bad practice, or can the Ericson spreaders also handle that kind of weight?

This information would give us a better idea of how we might proceed.

Thanks,
Frank.

 

[Seth]

That is the question

Guy might be able to give a precise load answer, but what you saw is the reality. With the rig properly tensioned (so the spreaders are not loose and sliding up and down, but slightly compressed into the mast), they are quite strong, and there is usually no problem standing on the them when working on the mast. Common sense and looking at the would suggest you not get too far from the attach point-and that is why I suggest not going any farther outboard than need be.

The beefy, all aluminum spreaders are very strong-but they do get weaker the farther you go from the mast-and they are strongest right by the mast. They are designed to work to improve the angle of support at the top of the mast-and they do. If the rig were loose, and you stood on the outboard end of one, it will bend or break (but on e-boats roughly above the 30's with alum spreaders, they should be tough enough even for this)...

Wooden spreaders and the alum tube types are not so strong and I would avoid loading those more than a few inches from the mast. The newer airfoil alum types should be ok for lazy jacks-as long as you don't try and winch it backwards by accident..

Guy???
S

 

[u079721]

These concerns about the loads on the spreaders are certainly valid. I have seen some spreaders that are only held up by the seizing on the shroud. On the other hand, the spreaders on my 38 were rock solid oval tubes fitting over solid mast sleeves. You could (and I did on occasion) sit and stand on them without worry - so using this technique with them was no concern. But I should have noted in my post that the spreaders have to be up to the load. In my case I actually used the mid point of the lower spreaders, not the outboard end.