Macerator Pump Selection

[ted_reshetiloff]

One of my plans for the summer is to simplify the head system and install a macerator pump. I want to eliminate the extra hoses and manual pump out system. Plan is to run discharge of head directly to the holding tank with no "Y" valve. Then have the option of pumping the tank out through the deck fill (Dockside), or through the seacock via the macerator. I have heard of the manual pumps that were OEM not being so great for waste as the valves get clogged, and I dont really need or like the option of direct discharge since the vast majority of my sailing will not be offshore. The existing system seems overly complicated with more components than are really needed. (KISS) I know several folks here have redone their heads and would love to hear some thoughts on this sytem as well as any specific pump recomendations.

Thanks Always,

Ted Reshetiloff
1989 E 38-200
Not Yet Re-named (Old name too horrible to mention)

 

[Ray Rhode]

Journey, my 1984 E35-III, has the same plumbing arrangement you are talking about. The head discharges directly into the tank and there are two outputs from the bottom of the tank. One goes to the deck pumpout fitting and the other goes through a Whale Gusher for overboard discharge. I like this arrangement because there is no way the authorities can complain because there is no way to directly discharge overboard. I still keep the thru-hull valve closed and the handle removed.

A couple of years ago I replaced the Whale pump with a macerator. It was a really difficult job becasue of the location of the pump. I thought this would be an improvement. Sometime later I installed the electric conversion on my Jabsco head. It includes a macreator. I really like it because it makes it just about impossible to clog the head. Also the waste, paper, etc. get ground up before they enter the tank and breakdown faster.

After about a year inactivity I attempted to use the overboard macreator and found it was jammed. I managed to free it but it continued to jam anytime it was inactive for an extended period (months) I finally removed the overboard macerator and reinstalled the Whale. It continues to work great since the waste has already been sliced and diced by the head.

The only complaint I have with the Jabsco electric conversion is the noise. While it does use significant amps it is only for a very short period of time so battery life is not seriously taxed. I believe that it actually uses less water, fewer pumpouts, as the macerator really pumps the bowl down quickly.


Ray Rhode
S/Y Journey
E35-III, #189

 

[Glyn Judson]

Simplified head plumbing.

Ted and Ray, You are both on the right track when it comes to head plumbing. There is no better place to keep it as simple as possible than there. I developed a modified system based on suggestions given me years ago by a fellow who made these kinds of installations for a living. Mine (and his) is based on the West Marine "Favorite Method" found on page 527 of the 2005 Catalog (center page, right side.) My system is identical with the exception of the Y-valve shown as item #8. Instead, I have a T-fitting there. The rest seems to be as you both describe with the exception of there being only one discharge hose from my tank. I too keep the seacock closed and have the handle removed but on a tether so as not to lose it into the depths of the bilge and I even installed a light in the area (under the starboard, aft of the V-berth) to make it easier to fit the handle and open and close the valve. I've employed this method on two of our boats and on several more for friends. I too had trouble with a macerator stalling once and, as it happened, within an hour of leaving for Catalina Island so I immediately replaced it with a new one from West Marine. Upon my return I took the old one apart and could find nothing wrong with it. C'est la vie! Might I also highly recommend using Odorlos head treatment? If you follow their easy directions, it will provide you with 100% odor free operation.....forever. And it's just about dirt cheap. Good luck, Glyn

 

[u079721]

Lose the Whale Pump

Being on the Great Lakes I never had occasion to use the Whale pump for overboard discharge on our E38. To comply with regulations the PO had simply removed the hose leading to the Whale pump, and put a plug in the end of the hose, and a cap over the through-hull.

A few years back the head odor became a bit worse, and nothing much I did seemed to help. I finally figured out that the thin rubber of the diaphram in the Whale pump, which was still hooked up to the holding tank, was allowing a fair amount of fumes to get through into the head. Also sewage could get inside the plugged off hose and sit there. Actually a fairly stupid way to do things, but it was easy for the PO, and it never occurred to me to change it.

So I spent a fairly unpleasant afternoon removing the Whale pump, and cutting back the second discharge hose to just a couple of feet, and then putting a new cap on it. Odor problem solved. And the nice thing was that I was able to sell the Whale pump on eBay too!

So if you have one of those Whale pumps, and don't use it, you might want to think about removing it, as they do seem to contribute to head odor.

 

[clayton]

Whale pump/overboard discharge

I had the same exact setup, as our boat was on Lakes Ontario and Champlain prior to us. When we purchased, the P.O./yard had never pumped out the holding tank that fall, and over the winter the whale pump had sewage sitting in it and the plug in the hose started to drip by spring. I tore everything out, took the head and tank home and cleaned them out and let them sit out in the sun and wind for a couple of weeks. Replaced the hoses, and plugged the tank outlet for the overboard discharge, so now there's just a discharge line to the deck pumpout. No odors anymore. I pump out the tank regularly, as there's a pumpout in our marina. If we do a cruise, somewhere along the way I'll need fuel, so I'll pump the tank then as well. (Our cruising area is no discharge zoned.) After having odor problems right at the start of owning the boat, we're pretty anal (no pun intended) about keeping the head and tank clean. I'm going to get the rebuild kit for the Whale and rehab it and keep it as a spare for the cockpit manual bilge pump.

Clayton

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

Thanks a lot guys. I think I will lose the Whale pump but keep the second discharge from the tank to overboard via a macerator. Still looking for recomendations for a good pump. Sounds like some of you folks have had bad luck with the pumps. Can you tell me what brand and/or model so I can avoid them?

 

[Ray Rhode]

Ted,

Since I work part time at West Marine I had plenty of opportunity to check out the two types of pumps we carry. They are essentially the same. The real problem is the location and deisgn of the pumps.

When you use the pump to dump the tank there is waste left over in the pump housing. If this is not removed it hardens and binds up the impeller. This prevents the motor from running and will pop the breaker. The instructions tell you that you can use a screwdriver on the motor shaft to break the impeller free. I did this even though the location of the pump made it very difficult to get to the slot on the motor shaft. I also tried flushing the tank several times in order to clear the waste from the pump but you can never get all the waste out of the tank.

I also believe that the waste reduces the flexibility of the impeller which reduces the ability of the pump to self-prime. If the tank wasn't near full it was very difficult to get it to prime.

In short I don't think I would ever consider re-installing the macerator as it was more trouble than it was worth.

Ray

 

[ted_reshetiloff]

So Ray you have not had any problems with the Whale manual pump? I had heard the valves get clogged with waste and the pumps can not operate well. Also hearing of odor problems from these pumps due to waste sitting in the pump diaphram. Certainly would be cheaper for me to keep the whale and just replace some hoses, without buying a macerator pump.

 

[Ray Rhode]

I have not had any problems but remember I have an electric head with a built in macerator. This greatly reduces the clogging problem. I also use Odorlos which I have found to be very good at eliminating odors. If you keep the Whale I suggest you order the Nitrile kit and rebuild it. The Nitrile stands up better to the waste stream.

My problem with the Macerator was having to unstick the impeller everytime I wanted to use it. I now use it to empty the decorative pond in front of the house and I still have trouble getting it to prime.

Ray

 

[gareth harris]

I can not remember the make of my macerator (not from WM), but I have never had any problems with it, despite using it only very occasionally over the course of 7 years. Salt water does not sit in it as I mounted it slightly higher than the tank, and I installed a vented loop between it and the through hull. Also, when using it, there is a definite change in sound when the tank empties along with a rush of bubbles outside. By running it a few seconds after that, I think I flush through most that would clog or corrode the pump.

Gareth
Freyja E35 #241 1972

 

[soup1438]

Salt water does not sit in it as I mounted it slightly higher than the tank, and I installed a vented loop between it and the through hull.

Dumb questions... where does the end of the vent hose normally run? And for this extra vented run, how/where did you route the vent line to the outside?

I'm in the process of installing a holding tank into my E-25 where a P/O removed it. I've been using the boat as a day-sailor because I had to disable the head to avoid the wrath of local law enforcement. AFAICT the existing head may macerate but I've not double-checked even though it is routed directly over-board, so I'm not sure what kind of pump I should choose. Looking through the WM/BOATUS catalog I picked up yesterday, it looks like the prices for manual diaghram and power macerator aren't much different.

Once I know my wife and daughter can "go" we should be able to travel a bit further afield.

(sighs)

I've heard that you can recognize a rabid environmentalist when they can't cope with the idea that fish and dolphins "go" in the water...

(laughs)

 

[Sean Engle]

My vent line ran up and to the hull side - just below the rubrail, port side, mid-ship.

If your old system went overboard and had a 'Y' valve in it, my suggestion would be to replace the entire system with nice new stuff - and get a good Y that has the little loops on it for a pad lock. We liked to keep a (open) luggage combination lock on our Y valve - that could be snapped on if any, um, 'interest' was suddenly shown in it.

You should be able to grandfather the stuff in (regs-wise) since 'they came with the boat' - and show that it's all 'locked up', no?

Oh, and on the pump: I rebuilt my whale with the kit mentioned - but never used it because I did not want waste it in (resigned myself to sending it one way or the other). Oh, and yes, I would vote for the macerator as well (though I did not have one) - although I am reminded of a story of a friend's macerator that was disbled by a Tampax...(and I'll just leave that one right there).

//sse