Sven
Seglare
So you tell them that the price for coming along on your beautiful boat is that you'll get shove them overboard when it is least expected and then do your very best to come back and pull them out of the water, to see if you can.
-Sven
MAN OVERBOARD >this is a drill<
- Thread starter Dave Hussey
- Start date
So you tell them that the price for coming along on your beautiful boat is that you'll get shove them overboard when it is least expected and then do your very best to come back and pull them out of the water, to see if you can.
-Sven
Harder than it looks
On our little Ranger 22 we had one of those rope ladders with the plastic steps on it. It attaches in a similar manner to the Wichard one shown above.
I decided to try to see how easy it was to re-board the boat. The R22 has very little freeboard, but it still took me 20 minutes to get back aboard. And I couldn't do it alone. After flailing around for a long time trying different methods, my wife finally had to rig a line to a winch to help me out (I'm about 225 wet).
It was 85 degrees out with water temps in the mid 60's, but I was exhausted and cold by the end of it and had severe bruises where my toes got pinched between the ladder and hull. The flexible ladder bends underneath the hull and you cannot get very good purchase to step up. Then when you do get purchase and pull up, there is nowhere else higher up to reach with your hands to pull yourself further up and then the ladder starts to slide sideways and you are left hanging on with one hand. Once that arm gets tired, you're done for! I imagine adrenaline would probably help get you back aboard, but if its cold and you have been in the water for awhile, there's no way you could do it by yourself. It's really humbling.
When I finally launch my E27 with its much higher freeboard, its going to have a flip down stern ladder reachable from the water, a Lifesling, and probably one other method of getting back aboard. At least one method will be easy for the person in the water to do by themselves.
Doug
On our little Ranger 22 we had one of those rope ladders with the plastic steps on it. It attaches in a similar manner to the Wichard one shown above.
I decided to try to see how easy it was to re-board the boat. The R22 has very little freeboard, but it still took me 20 minutes to get back aboard. And I couldn't do it alone. After flailing around for a long time trying different methods, my wife finally had to rig a line to a winch to help me out (I'm about 225 wet).
It was 85 degrees out with water temps in the mid 60's, but I was exhausted and cold by the end of it and had severe bruises where my toes got pinched between the ladder and hull. The flexible ladder bends underneath the hull and you cannot get very good purchase to step up. Then when you do get purchase and pull up, there is nowhere else higher up to reach with your hands to pull yourself further up and then the ladder starts to slide sideways and you are left hanging on with one hand. Once that arm gets tired, you're done for! I imagine adrenaline would probably help get you back aboard, but if its cold and you have been in the water for awhile, there's no way you could do it by yourself. It's really humbling.
When I finally launch my E27 with its much higher freeboard, its going to have a flip down stern ladder reachable from the water, a Lifesling, and probably one other method of getting back aboard. At least one method will be easy for the person in the water to do by themselves.
Doug
Randy Rutledge
Sustaining Member
Something like that, throw the over and start the training.
I don’t think dragging a line in heavy traffic is a good idea, besides you can offer a round of beer to the crew of boat that rescues you and gets you back to your cooler in a high traffic area. If off shore or night sailing the tow line should be a must.
This is the one violation of my life rule “prepare for the worst possible situation and plan for the best” I just don’t plan to go overboard, famous last words. I have a hank-on Jib and sail changes in high wind and waves over the bow are normal activities, MOB could be like grounding “those that have, those that will and those that will again.” I do think that a recovery practice at anchor will be the minimum I will do this summer. The 29 has enough freeboard to make her almost impossible to board without help or a ladder. This discussion has made me plan to make a rope boarding ladder that will hang from a stanchion to provide assistance, I also think I will try hanging the bosun’s chair as a step and see how that works. The hang over ladder that bayonet mounts to the starboard deck takes far more time to deploy than I want someone in the water.
The Bosun’s chair off the end of the boom on a rerouted reef line that on my boat is blocked near the end of the boom and runs to the mast where there is a winch that could be used to hoist them aboard is another thought.
Should we set up a survey to see how many have taken a swim? I personally have only seen two and a friend told me he went overboard but not from my boat.
I don’t think dragging a line in heavy traffic is a good idea, besides you can offer a round of beer to the crew of boat that rescues you and gets you back to your cooler in a high traffic area. If off shore or night sailing the tow line should be a must.
This is the one violation of my life rule “prepare for the worst possible situation and plan for the best” I just don’t plan to go overboard, famous last words. I have a hank-on Jib and sail changes in high wind and waves over the bow are normal activities, MOB could be like grounding “those that have, those that will and those that will again.” I do think that a recovery practice at anchor will be the minimum I will do this summer. The 29 has enough freeboard to make her almost impossible to board without help or a ladder. This discussion has made me plan to make a rope boarding ladder that will hang from a stanchion to provide assistance, I also think I will try hanging the bosun’s chair as a step and see how that works. The hang over ladder that bayonet mounts to the starboard deck takes far more time to deploy than I want someone in the water.
The Bosun’s chair off the end of the boom on a rerouted reef line that on my boat is blocked near the end of the boom and runs to the mast where there is a winch that could be used to hoist them aboard is another thought.
Should we set up a survey to see how many have taken a swim? I personally have only seen two and a friend told me he went overboard but not from my boat.
Sven
Seglare
No-ladder boarding
Our 27 foot mahogany sloop had a teak rope ladder, probably a bit more rigid than your rope ladder with plastic steps. I know exactly what you are talking about when you say that the ladder goes under the hull and you definitely want it closer to amidships than the stern for that reason.
When we were diving (jumping) off the sloop we'd forgo the ladder because it simply didn't help that much. I know I couldn't do it today, without practice and some exercise for a year or two, but the trick was to shoot up out of the water far enough to grab the gunnell with at least one hand and then swing one foot up over the side and roll up on the deck. We didn't have lifelines so there were no stanchions to get in the way of the roll.
As I said, I could not repeat that swimming start jump and roll today (especially not with our 4' freeboard !) but I would try the same technique with the Wichard (which in on the infamous list). I would use the ladder to get a grip on the stanchion and then get one foot up on the gunnell for the roll, making sure there wasn't a stanchion in the way.
Talking is easier than doing so I'll definitely try it once we have the ladder.
-Sven
Our 27 foot mahogany sloop had a teak rope ladder, probably a bit more rigid than your rope ladder with plastic steps. I know exactly what you are talking about when you say that the ladder goes under the hull and you definitely want it closer to amidships than the stern for that reason.
When we were diving (jumping) off the sloop we'd forgo the ladder because it simply didn't help that much. I know I couldn't do it today, without practice and some exercise for a year or two, but the trick was to shoot up out of the water far enough to grab the gunnell with at least one hand and then swing one foot up over the side and roll up on the deck. We didn't have lifelines so there were no stanchions to get in the way of the roll.
As I said, I could not repeat that swimming start jump and roll today (especially not with our 4' freeboard !) but I would try the same technique with the Wichard (which in on the infamous list). I would use the ladder to get a grip on the stanchion and then get one foot up on the gunnell for the roll, making sure there wasn't a stanchion in the way.
Talking is easier than doing so I'll definitely try it once we have the ladder.
-Sven
Right you are on that, and one of my concerns is how exhausted will the MOB be and will the person in question have any strength left to make the climb. This is where the life sling comes in, but you need someone on board to deploy it and hoist you back in - not good for the solo scenario....
windjunkee
Member III
I'm a proponent of the 'quick stop'. Immediately go head to wind, luff the sails, fire up the engine and go upwind of the MOB, luff again and drift down for the retrieval. We have a horseshoe, strobe and MOB pole on one side of the stern pulpit and a lifesling on the other.
If we can't act immediately (i.e. under auto pilot), we'll do the figure 8 and we practice both techniques at least once a season with all potential helmspeople.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
If we can't act immediately (i.e. under auto pilot), we'll do the figure 8 and we practice both techniques at least once a season with all potential helmspeople.
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32 Hull #134
Redondo Beach, CA
MOB Procedure
I took some classes in Berkeleyon J24's (very tender boats) with no instuments (aside from a compass) in 15-20 knots of wind in the SF Bay during the summer, and right in the slot that blows in wind throug the Golden Gate. Waves tended to be big enough to add to the excitement. Each class meeting required signficiant MOB practice. This was the procedure we learned.
After learning of the MOB and appointing a lookout/throwing a PFD:
1. Regardless of the point of sail as of the time of the MOB, we were immediately to get onto a beam reach and sail for approximately 4-5 boat lengths away from the MOB.
2. Then, we'd execute a 225 degree (approx) tack from a beam reach to a deep broad reach on the other tack, and obviously heading downwind from the MOB and letting the main all the way out for the new point of sail. The jib is allowed to get backwinded during the tack and isn't touched.
3. The helmsman then determines a time to head upwind on a close reach to the MOB. Once the turn is made to head upwind, the jib is let out completely (jib sheets under control so that they don't caught up in anything) and only the main is used to get a little speed while heading upwind to the MOB on a close reach.
4. The victim is then approached slowly and kept on the leeward side of the boat, the main is let out all the way (zero sail power, but there if needed), and the tiller is all the way to leeward to stall the boat.
Once that all gets done, then presumably we throw lines and start hauling the person aboard.
The trick to the above was gauging the approach angle to the MOB, and then controlling speed. Too fast, and we'd pass the MOB or tack accidentally when we put the tiller over to leeward to stall the boat. Too slow and we'd end up drifting away to leeward of the MOB. It absolutely had to be on a close reach, and speed control was obviously a function of the conditions.
As I've considered this method knowing there are others, I think I've apperciated that
a.) it doesn't require gybing, which could be nasty in chaotic conditions (people and the elements),
b.) it doesn't require motoring, which may not help anyway in certain conditions, at least on the J24's,
c.) the practice forced us to pay attention to the indicators of boat speed and point of sail, which we should be good at anyway, and
d.) it keeps the sails up for immediate use, if needed.
Obviously, lots of practice was needed. However, having the sails immediately available allowed us to simply try again, and we were back to the MOB within 1 or 2 minutes tops. The practice was valuable, and it became second nature to execute the maneuver. I like the idea of having someone hysterical on board...maybe I'll add that to my next set of MOB pratice.
Hope folks find this useful.
Ignacio
I took some classes in Berkeleyon J24's (very tender boats) with no instuments (aside from a compass) in 15-20 knots of wind in the SF Bay during the summer, and right in the slot that blows in wind throug the Golden Gate. Waves tended to be big enough to add to the excitement. Each class meeting required signficiant MOB practice. This was the procedure we learned.
After learning of the MOB and appointing a lookout/throwing a PFD:
1. Regardless of the point of sail as of the time of the MOB, we were immediately to get onto a beam reach and sail for approximately 4-5 boat lengths away from the MOB.
2. Then, we'd execute a 225 degree (approx) tack from a beam reach to a deep broad reach on the other tack, and obviously heading downwind from the MOB and letting the main all the way out for the new point of sail. The jib is allowed to get backwinded during the tack and isn't touched.
3. The helmsman then determines a time to head upwind on a close reach to the MOB. Once the turn is made to head upwind, the jib is let out completely (jib sheets under control so that they don't caught up in anything) and only the main is used to get a little speed while heading upwind to the MOB on a close reach.
4. The victim is then approached slowly and kept on the leeward side of the boat, the main is let out all the way (zero sail power, but there if needed), and the tiller is all the way to leeward to stall the boat.
Once that all gets done, then presumably we throw lines and start hauling the person aboard.
The trick to the above was gauging the approach angle to the MOB, and then controlling speed. Too fast, and we'd pass the MOB or tack accidentally when we put the tiller over to leeward to stall the boat. Too slow and we'd end up drifting away to leeward of the MOB. It absolutely had to be on a close reach, and speed control was obviously a function of the conditions.
As I've considered this method knowing there are others, I think I've apperciated that
a.) it doesn't require gybing, which could be nasty in chaotic conditions (people and the elements),
b.) it doesn't require motoring, which may not help anyway in certain conditions, at least on the J24's,
c.) the practice forced us to pay attention to the indicators of boat speed and point of sail, which we should be good at anyway, and
d.) it keeps the sails up for immediate use, if needed.
Obviously, lots of practice was needed. However, having the sails immediately available allowed us to simply try again, and we were back to the MOB within 1 or 2 minutes tops. The practice was valuable, and it became second nature to execute the maneuver. I like the idea of having someone hysterical on board...maybe I'll add that to my next set of MOB pratice.
Hope folks find this useful.
Ignacio
Last edited:
steven
Sustaining Member
leeward or weather pickup?
I am very concerned about this topic and appreciate that the group is discussing it here.
I been taught, practiced and taught Ignacio's procedure as well as others procedures. Also, I have been in the water being picked up under this-is-not-a-drill conditions.
Reguardless of procedure for getting back to the MOB, I have become negative on the idea of approaching with vessel-to-weather. I realize not every agrees, including some textbooks.
Nevertheless, I think it is just too easy for the boat to blow over the person in the water, pulling them under the hull or bashing them in the head - especially in a confused or quartering sea. I have been a MOB - fortunately conscious and not in any immediate trouble - but almost killed by the rescue boat rolling/heaving onto me. On another occasion I tried to board a small racing keelboat from the leeward side - the boat was blown over me and my life jacket pinned me to the underside of the hull.
Also, at the very end of the approach and during retrieval, the skipper - back at the helm - can loose sight of the MOB. Is the MOB under the boat? I think vessel-to-leeward improves the the odds that MOB is not.
Moreover, if for any reason the rescue vessel needs to continue to maneuver (e.g., have to break off and go around again) it will likely have to go somewhat downwind - can't do that with a person in the way.
Of course, conditions vary widely and a pickup on the leeward side - or over the stern - could be the best in a specific situation. And there are specific risks associated with the vessel-to-leeward approach. But I think it is generally preferable.
Discussion welcome, of course.
I am very concerned about this topic and appreciate that the group is discussing it here.
I been taught, practiced and taught Ignacio's procedure as well as others procedures. Also, I have been in the water being picked up under this-is-not-a-drill conditions.
Reguardless of procedure for getting back to the MOB, I have become negative on the idea of approaching with vessel-to-weather. I realize not every agrees, including some textbooks.
Nevertheless, I think it is just too easy for the boat to blow over the person in the water, pulling them under the hull or bashing them in the head - especially in a confused or quartering sea. I have been a MOB - fortunately conscious and not in any immediate trouble - but almost killed by the rescue boat rolling/heaving onto me. On another occasion I tried to board a small racing keelboat from the leeward side - the boat was blown over me and my life jacket pinned me to the underside of the hull.
Also, at the very end of the approach and during retrieval, the skipper - back at the helm - can loose sight of the MOB. Is the MOB under the boat? I think vessel-to-leeward improves the the odds that MOB is not.
Moreover, if for any reason the rescue vessel needs to continue to maneuver (e.g., have to break off and go around again) it will likely have to go somewhat downwind - can't do that with a person in the way.
Of course, conditions vary widely and a pickup on the leeward side - or over the stern - could be the best in a specific situation. And there are specific risks associated with the vessel-to-leeward approach. But I think it is generally preferable.
Discussion welcome, of course.
Hi Steven,
The leeward-side pickup idea of the MOB often nagged at me, specifically for fear of what you mentioned (and now confirmed for me) below. Is this based on the premise or assumption that having the vessel to weather creates a sort of "safer" or more "controlled" zone to begin the process of getting the MOB on the vessel?
I'm a newbie to sailing (took the classes just last summer), so this is great info. to learn from the more experienced salts in the group!
The leeward-side pickup idea of the MOB often nagged at me, specifically for fear of what you mentioned (and now confirmed for me) below. Is this based on the premise or assumption that having the vessel to weather creates a sort of "safer" or more "controlled" zone to begin the process of getting the MOB on the vessel?
I'm a newbie to sailing (took the classes just last summer), so this is great info. to learn from the more experienced salts in the group!
Dave Hussey
Member III
Ignacio,
another advantage of not using the engine is the fact that the propeller is not turning, so the hapless MOB will not be churned into chum during the attempted rescue. That is a good thing. Hmmm..., but then there's still that problem Steve mentioned, of the danger of blowing over or trapping the MOB, and this needs to be addressed somehow. It seems that the conditions of the sea, the wind, whether under sail or motoring, and the number of people on board, all need to be considered in how to react to a MOB...
1. a means of locating the MOB (ie, MOB button on GPS, MOB pole, life jacket/ring/cushion tossed over, spotter
2. situation awareness, ie, wind direction, sea condition, tactics
3. get to the mob any safe way possible
4. get the victim aboard (need more ideas)
5. get the victim dry and warm
6. assess and correct flaws in assumptions.
whew!
another advantage of not using the engine is the fact that the propeller is not turning, so the hapless MOB will not be churned into chum during the attempted rescue. That is a good thing. Hmmm..., but then there's still that problem Steve mentioned, of the danger of blowing over or trapping the MOB, and this needs to be addressed somehow. It seems that the conditions of the sea, the wind, whether under sail or motoring, and the number of people on board, all need to be considered in how to react to a MOB...
1. a means of locating the MOB (ie, MOB button on GPS, MOB pole, life jacket/ring/cushion tossed over, spotter
2. situation awareness, ie, wind direction, sea condition, tactics
3. get to the mob any safe way possible
4. get the victim aboard (need more ideas)
5. get the victim dry and warm
6. assess and correct flaws in assumptions.
whew!