Messenger Line How-To's

[Loren Beach]

Since someone mentioned internal halyard removal and restoration in a nearby thread, I got to wondering how everyone else accomplished this.
We really should remove and clean (and probably end-for-end) our halyards this season.
Over the years I have found that tape alone seldom holds, so I end up stitching the new line end to the old end. Works fine, but is very time consuming.

This involves a large needle and some waxed twine.

What with four halyards to the top plus the spinn top. lift, that's a lot of stitching (and cutting loose...).

Probably no really "trick" answer, but perhaps someone has come up with a better idea.


Thanks,
Loren

 

[SurabyaKid]

Good question Loren. I do the same as you...stitch the butts together and the tape the connection.Pat

 

[Randy Rutledge]

If you use a sewing awl the stitching is easy, a couple of stitches and then tape to keep the ends in line and You are done.
1 run the needle through one line end and pull the end of the thread through withdraw the needle
2 repeat on the next line end holding the loop through as the needle is withdrawn and repeat step one on the first line cut the thread and tie the doubled ends together this gives you two pieces of the thread for double strength.
3 tape the ends to keep in line and pull the messenger line through.

Probably what you do also but with the sewing all it is easy.

http://www.sailrite.com/Speedy-Stitcher-Sewing-Awl-Kit?gclid=CPfdhNGngLUCFQf0nAodkwUAjQ

 

[Slick470]

I have always tied a bowline knot with a 2-3 inch loop in the messenger line and then used a few long loops of waxed twine stitched through the end of the halyard and run through the knot. I leave an inch or so of separation between the end of the knot loop and the end of the halyard. This has proved sufficient to let everything pass smoothly through the sheaves without hanging up on anything.

Probably a better way of doing it, but it's worked well for the past few seasons we've owned this boat.

 

[Grizz]

Messenger Lines and Flemish Eye(s)

This question may have been triggered in a previoius submittal that included a mention of running messenger lines for removal of halyards prior to stepping the mast.

This is the component we have come to rely on to pull a messenger line: a Flemish Eye is whipped onto the bitter end of each halyard, allowing the messenger line to be quickly/easily tied onto the halyard. A secondary benefit is this minimizes the potential for a sheave obstruction at the mast-head, as this 'Eye' presents a smooth transition from messenger line to halyard at that connection; no knots, tape or stitching to get caught when this connection rolls past the sheave.

This procedure was 1st recommened by the West Marine Manager in Chicago 15+ years ago, 'Flemish Eye' being the term he used and continues to use. Perhaps it's a different term in other parts of the world. We continue to incorporate this on every halyard and running rigging, anything that runs through a clutch, stopper or over a sheave.

This allows us to pull, or run, a halyard in almost no time and have full assurance we won't 'sky' either the halyard or messenger line. We simply tie a knot (any knot!), give it a tug for proof of fastness and hoist away. Easy, no need for needles, tape and concern.

The pic should be worth 1,000 words as well! :nerd:

 

[markvone]

"Trick" method is a reeving splice in the halyard tail

Scroll down to reeving splice:

http://www.apsltd.com/c-1539-splicingservices-halyardssheetsguys.aspx

I have these in all my new halyards. You can attach the messenger to the loop with a bowline OR I make a loop in the messenger with a figure 8 knot and luggage tag it to the halyard loop by looping the tail of the messenger thru the messenger loop so the knot doesn't take the load directly. With all new sheeves in the masthead pulling the halyards through is a breeze and the load is very low.

Mark

 

[markvone]

Picture says it all

I'll just add that the "eye" in my halyard tails is just the cover, not the core, so the stretched and flattened "eye" under tension is no larger in diameter than the full line allowing it to go over sheeves and thru clutches with no problems.

Mark

 

[Loren Beach]

Retrofiting Tags?

Hmmmmmm...

Oooooo Kayyyyyyyy....

There is indeed a "trick" way to do those halyard ends!

We have spendy (mostly T-900) low-stretch line, already in use for a decade.... Now to figure out if there's a reasonable way to put a narrow little loop in the end of each.

Or, would we need that loop or tag in both ends?

Ya know, for a dumb question, it produced some very smart answers!
But then, dumb questions are kind of a specialty with me.

You guys are the greatest.



Loren

 

[Guy Stevens]

This is the component we have come to rely on to pull a messenger line: a Flemish Eye is whipped onto the bitter end of each halyard, allowing the messenger line to be quickly/easily tied onto the halyard. A secondary benefit is this minimizes the potential for a sheave obstruction at the mast-head, as this 'Eye' presents a smooth transition from messenger line to halyard at that connection; no knots, tape or stitching to get caught when this connection rolls past the sheave.


View attachment 12326

That is a great way to do it, and should be done on all halyards, it also prevents them from fraying etc. Only thing that needs to be different here. The whipping needs to be a contrasting color for Flemish or reeving eyes. This is traditional in rigging for a reason any eye whipped with a contrasting color is a non load bearing eye. Looking down at the end of a line instantly tells you that this is a reeving eye and not a spliced eye.

Guy

 

[e38 owner]

instructions

Does anyone have a set of instructions on how to perform this splice on double braid?
Thanks

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f90/the-bitter-end-73962-2.html
http://www.youtube.com/user/APSannapolis/videos
Just found these

 

[markvone]

Loren,

The APS site says the reeving splice uses one foot of line and a double braid splice uses two feet. You could add them to the current tails IF you have a spare foot of line. You could reverse the halyards (assume spliced to shackles) by cutting off the shackles adding a reeving splice on that end and splicing the shackle to the old tail if you have spare length for lost splice (< 1') plus new splice (2') plus reeving splice (1').

My new halyards do not have the extra four feet I will need to reverse them in the future. My loaded splice whippings are color matched to the line but I'll have to look at the whipping on my reeving splices to see if my rigger gets an 'A-' or a 'B' for this job.

Great info!

Mark

 

[Loren Beach]

I just removed our halyards, a couple at a time, for washing. The tried-and-true stitch method is so reliable that I still used it. The stitching uses about 6 connector threads, and (only a guess) might hold a 30 + pound pull. These roll over the masthead sheaves with no perceptible hangup at all. Since I have once lost a halyard down the inside of the mast and had to hire a rigger to re-insert one, I am very leary of having that happen ever again.
At home, I put them thru a short cycle with very little soap in our front loader washing machine and air dry 'em. Second rince cycle, also. I use a large mesh bag for them. It's sort of an E Ticket amusement park water-feature ride for them, perhaps.....

I give them a rinse about every third year. We experience a lot of atmospheric 'dirt' where we moor, under the glide path of PDX.
Note that this washing does not... make them appear actually "new" but does clean them a lot, and make them more supple. Replacement cost for two (approx) hundred foot 8mm T-900 halyards is kind of eye opening, and the twonewer spin. lines are slightly less hi-tech, so keeping them in good condition is vital. (well over $1./foot at WM today.
Good opportunity to end for end them, also.

 

[Alan Gomes]

It's sort of an E Ticket amusement park water feature ride for them,

You're dating yourself (and me!), Loren!

 

[peaman]

I use a “messenger loop” made when I whip the ends of new halyards. The method appears in the E32-3 Owners Manual (page 67 of 88). Whipping is quicker and easier than splicing double braid, and can be used on lines independent of composition or construction. I use a 1/8” nylon messenger line secured to the loop with a long bowline, no tape required.

 

[Dave G.]

I use a few loops of seizing wire and wrapped the joint with electrical tape. I know "cheezy" but worked well and really fast to do

 

[bgary]

I use a “messenger loop” made when I whip the ends of new halyards.

I make a messenger loop on my halyards, too. I used to just sieze a loop of cord, but lately I've sewn on a short loop of webbing. Seems somehow more secure.

Two other things - I've made "winter halyards" of 3/16" line, and put messenger loops in the ends of those, too. And I made a dyneema loop about 3 feet in circumference. When it's time to install (or remove) a halyard, I "luggage tie" the loop to the halyard, by way of the messenger loop, and then "luggage tie" the loop to the tag-line. In doing so, there's no way the connection can become untied as it goes through the mast (I had that happen -once - and it was really annoying.)

$.02