Navy Collisions Result of 'Multiple Failures'

[Christian Williams]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-1015am:homepage/story&utm_term=.2fd47919c33c

I guess we already knew that much.

It is a stunning reminder that as skippers we are responsible for training and supervising our crews and guests, and that avoidance of disaster relies on our personal alertness and ability to anticipate.

 

[toddster]

It sounds as if the list of "early retirements" is going quite high up the chain of command. Which begs the question of how all these vacancies get filled. Obviously the Navy doesn't bring in "outside talent."

 

[Christian Williams]

I have read, you probably have too, that a big contributor to the training issue is extra deployments, stretching the fleet, pushing the crews hard.

Apparently life aboard is doubled watches and too much "learning on the job" as opposed to a real curriculum.

Formal training is the first to go, captains say, under pressure of fulfilling the mission at hand.

Ahem. This was not the case for Jack Aubrey, who used his own money to buy powder and shot and honed his crew to top efficiency and accuracy for capturing prizes. On the other hand, the Admiralty was still raaaather snotty to him. I wonder if our aspiring lieutenant commanders have read Patrick O'Brian, and if not, being career navy men, why not?

 

[Kenneth K]

There is also both a large "financial" component and "technology" component involved in the evolution of the modern "training" environment at play here. Not just the military, but the commercial airlines as well, have made substantial moves away from "class-room" and "hands-on" training towards "computerized" and "simulation" training, respectively.

10 years ago, when a pilot was new to an aircraft, a company would fly him/her down for several weeks of classroom training-- live instructors, printed curriculum, lots of opportunities to ask questions. Nowdays, a company mails the pilot a flash-drive or CD containing a home-study curriculum. The pilot studies on their own, passes a computerized exam to demonstrate "mastery" of the material, then likely gets a one-day review course when he/she shows up at Corporate HQ for simulator training. Ten to twelve or so simulators later, you're good-to-go. The pilot's first landing in the actual airplane (albeit with a supervising instructor for the first few days of flying) will be the one where you are sitting back in 24B.

Of course, technological advances in naval and aviation systems, navigation, and communications equipment have also both lowered the workload and enhanced the capabilities of captains and pilots, when all these systems are working. When these systems fail, an experienced skipper or crew-member likely still posses older, ingrained skills that likely allow them to more quickly adapt to the loss of newer automation or technology. The new or inexperienced skipper or crew-member, however, who's experience base only includes such modern, technological equipment may likely have a much smaller set of skills to fall back on when things go wrong.

Computerized and simulation training have saved airlines and the military billions in training costs over the last decade. And yet, most of these companies and organizations routinely claim that safety is always priority number one.

 

[bgary]

The pilot's first landing in the actual airplane will be the one where you are sitting back in 24B

Sim-trained pilot I'm mostly okay with. Even row 24 is mostly okay. But... a middle seat? That's just wrong.

 

[kari]

I still think if I saw it in a movie . . . I wouldn't find it believable . . . But there it is . . . Wow. If it weren't tragic it would be embarrassing . . .

 

[supersailor]

Woah! We have a ton of Naval Ships going up and down the Straights every day. Should I be scared to death? This report is quite scary.

 

[Vagabond39]

Collusion

Used to be you had an Watch Officer and crew in CIC (Combat Information Center) manning the radar repeaters, plotting all contacts, Course, speed, CPA (Closest Point of Approach), Time to CPA, bearing rate, and keeping the OOD informed.
The Capitan left night Orders, to be awakened for any contact that closed within a Nautical Mile, or so.
The OOD had three lookouts stationed above the bridge, Port, Starboard, and Aft. Giving him 360 degrees of overlapped visual coverage.
But, modern ships use a computer to eliminate all that menial drudgery. Like those self driving cars.
Something like Arthur C. Clark wrote about in "The Pacifist"

 

[Vagabond39]

I still think if I saw it in a movie . . . I wouldn't find it believable . . . But there it is . . . Wow. If it weren't tragic it would be embarrassing . . .

McHale's Navy, or Gilligans Island?

 

[alcodiesel]

"Used to be you had an Watch Officer and crew in CIC (Combat Information Center) manning the radar repeaters, plotting all contacts, Course, speed, CPA ,..."

...and trained Signalmen topside who were the last word many times for "eyes on" visual watches. -former Signalman

 

[Pat O'Connell]

Asleep on watch?

Retired Chief that I walk with mentioned that not enough sleep/rest on board has been a problem for a long time. He recalled seaman that could walk and talk while sound asleep?

 

[supersailor]

Ok. New priorities for danger on the water.

1. Anglers. Those that have a fishing platform and don't realize it is a boat.

2. Navy ships. The walking zombies. AIS is turned off.

3. Commercial ships. No one on the bridge.

4. Crab pots. Set by idiots in channels and in front of marinas. They use white floats so they blend in with the white caps.

5. Natural objects. Logs, rocks etc.

 

[toddster]

There is only one little navy vessel that seems to come this far up the Columbia - YP-701. I have no idea why it comes up here. Anyhow, last time I saw it, about a month ago, it was broadcasting AIS. I guess this would have been after the new directives went out. It hardly needs to though. The engines are so darned loud that everyone within two miles is turning to see what the heck is that? It overtook me once, when I was motoring downriver, and I could hear it, over the sound of my engine, long before I could see it.

edit: Off topic, but some google images suggest that it sometimes comes up here to serve as armed escort for nuclear junk going to Hanford for disposal. However, it has been on its own when I've seen it.

 

[Tom Metzger]

There is only one little navy vessel that seems to come this far up the Columbia - YP-701. I have no idea why it comes up here. Anyhow, last time I saw it, about a month ago, it was broadcasting AIS. I guess this would have been after the new directives went out. It hardly needs to though. The engines are so darned loud that everyone within two miles is turning to see what the heck is that? It overtook me once, when I was motoring downriver, and I could hear it, over the sound of my engine, long before I could see it.

edit: Off topic, but some google images suggest that it sometimes comes up here to serve as armed escort for nuclear junk going to Hanford for disposal. However, it has been on its own when I've seen it.

http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4200&tid=2500&ct=4 YP 701 is used at the Naval Undersea Warfare Center Division, Keyport, Washington, to measure mobile underwater target and torpedo radiated noise plus ambient water noise conditions; serve as a platform for deployment of suspended, stationary, in-water acoustic targets during on-range torpedo proof and test operations; deployment of countermeasure emulator during torpedo operations; and deployment of oceanographic measurement instrumentation to determine seawater conductivity and temperature at the depth(s) of interest.

They don't mention disturbing the natives.

 

[toddster]

Yes, of course I saw that little blurb. I thought it was kind of ironic that something like that would be used for sensitive sonar devices or sound measurements. I get the feeling that they just use it for all sorts of odd jobs that "real" ships can't be bothered with. On the closest encounter I had with it, it appeared that the entire transom was spanned by a large barbecue, which seemed to be welded up from several oil drums split lengthwise. I wondered what sort of mission would require a tactical BBQ of that scale, way up the river...

 

[Rick R.]

Scary thought

We have many of the LCS-2's and JHSV's running around here in Pensacola as they are built just down the coast in Mobile and Pascagoula. The thought of a fly-by-wire Navy ship humming along at 44 knots makes me shiver.

We've encountered USN ships at sea that don't broadcast AIS or radar and the thought that they might have the same level of situational awareness as a Mexican fishing boat makes it all the more exciting!

Regarding these two tragedies, I wondered if their helms may have been hacked by an enemy causing the crashes. Coming within 60 days of one another.

 

[tenders]

YPs are “yard patrol” boats, sort of a step between a liberty boat (carried on board a larger ship and meant for handling up to a couple of dozen passengers or some cargo) and a minesweeper, the smallest oceangoing combatant. They’re general purpose utility boats, and all that sonar measuring stuff is probably contained in some gear that gets craned (or carried) on or off as needed. Midshipmen at the Naval Academy embark on them for summer cruises at least as far north as Halifax, and junior surface warfare officers from all commissioning sources use them to learn shiphandling skills. I think they can get underway with a crew of 4.

Given the Navy’s number of showoff welders with long stretches of time on their hands, there is probably a ludicrously big BBQ installed somewhere on every ship in the fleet. (My ship’s BBQs were stored in the brig, which went otherwise unused my entire time on board.) I would be surprised if submarines did not have them somewhere, cleverly designed to fold up or otherwise occupy minimal space when not being used on deck.

 

[Bolo]

..and then there are the racers.

Being on the Chesapeake Bay and in the Annapolis "neighborhood" where the Naval Academy is located, we see YP's all the time. Practicing different kinds of maneuvers or just sailing off in a line. Occasionally we'll even have a destroyer or larger vessel anchor off Annapolis. I've even seen a sub out in the bay once. All in all most civilian sailors and boaters stay away from the Navy's going on in the bay. In fact if you get too close it an anchored vessel they'll send out a Navy inflatable with a 55 cal on board. :0

But by far the biggest collision risk are the races that go on when us non-racers are trying to get out into and around the bay. Sometimes there are so many going on at the same time that you'll have no choice but to have to cut through a race. If you time it right you can sail through an open spot but sometimes you'll have no choice but to go through a line of boats. In that case I try to plan my course well and weave between boats without cutting them off. Not so easy to do all the time even with a 32 Ericson. Once I had a quite "vocal" female friend of my wife aboard and we were forced to go through a line of racing boats although I managed to make my passage near the end of the line. The last racer in that line yelled at us about ruining they're racing and my wife friend yelled back at him from our stern (with some colorful language) and pointed out, for all to hear - especially the racer, that their particular boat was in last place.

 

[Loren Beach]

Being Seen...

One small quibble about the mention "broadcasting" radar.
When you send out a signal you "listen" for the return from a target (other vessel, shoreside, buoy, etc). Other boats in the vicinity that see your image are seeing it because your vessel reflects a return back to their antenna.

Only way that they will not be aware of you is if your vessel reflects too little of a return for their antenna to pick up. Thus the peculiar shape of Stealth vessels and aircraft.
(And, your own poor radar reflectivity if you are a FRP smaller boat with no radar reflector hoisted.)

AIS, on the other hand, is something that any vessel can choose to use or not use. i.e. to turn it 'on' or 'off'. I only know a few sailors with boats in my size range that have AIS broadcast capability. Given that AIS reception is built in to modern chart plotters and many VHF radios, a lot of us do have this ability to see other AIS-transmitting vessels.

I would hazard a wild guess that many (most) military vessels seldom activate their AIS, and..... that newer ones increasingly have external superstructure shapes to minimize radar return.

 

[p.gazibara]

Yet nearly all boats out cruising have at least an AIS receiver even if not transmitting.

Something as stupidly simple as an openCPN AIS alarm on that Navy ship could have prevented these collisions...

What do I know, my onboard navigation software/hardware is less than $100. I'm sure you would need to add at least 4 zeroes behind that for those Navy ships.