Randy Rutledge
Sustaining Member
Has anyone sailed with crosscut laminate sails? A loft I have talked to is recommending a crosscut Laminate instead of a tri-radial 155. Any experience or knowledge on this would be appreciated.
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new sails
- Thread starter Randy Rutledge
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Careful
If you are looking at laminate sails you are obviously interested in performance. Most of the laminate fabrics made for sails are warp oriented, meaning the stronger threads run in the "long" direction. This is why the tri radial or semi-radial contruction is used. If you built a crosscut sail with this fabric you are using the weaker threads to take up the highest loads (not smart).
It is true that I am now several years out of the biz, and there might be some cruising laminates which are balanced or fill oriented (meaning the threads are equal strength in both directions, or the stronger threads are in the width (fill) direction, which would make them good for crosscut construction, but there were very few of the fabrics available a few years ago, and the "good stuff" was warp oriented.
If your sailmaker can show you the fabic is balanced or fill oriented and is used by the major sailmakers, I guess it is OK, but you will always get a longer lasting sail if you use a construction technique which most closely aligns the loads in the sail with the strongest threads in the fabric.
Crosscuts are not in much fashion any more because even with a good quality fill oriented fabric, the threads do not competely follow the load path-so they do not last as long. Period.
Food for thought. Make good choices!
Cheers
If you are looking at laminate sails you are obviously interested in performance. Most of the laminate fabrics made for sails are warp oriented, meaning the stronger threads run in the "long" direction. This is why the tri radial or semi-radial contruction is used. If you built a crosscut sail with this fabric you are using the weaker threads to take up the highest loads (not smart).
It is true that I am now several years out of the biz, and there might be some cruising laminates which are balanced or fill oriented (meaning the threads are equal strength in both directions, or the stronger threads are in the width (fill) direction, which would make them good for crosscut construction, but there were very few of the fabrics available a few years ago, and the "good stuff" was warp oriented.
If your sailmaker can show you the fabic is balanced or fill oriented and is used by the major sailmakers, I guess it is OK, but you will always get a longer lasting sail if you use a construction technique which most closely aligns the loads in the sail with the strongest threads in the fabric.
Crosscuts are not in much fashion any more because even with a good quality fill oriented fabric, the threads do not competely follow the load path-so they do not last as long. Period.
Food for thought. Make good choices!
Cheers
Randy Rutledge
Sustaining Member
Seth
This is a link to the sailcloth like I am considering. Please give your opinion.
http://contendersailcloth.com/index.php/en/laminates/crosscut/maxx.html
This is a link to the sailcloth like I am considering. Please give your opinion.
http://contendersailcloth.com/index.php/en/laminates/crosscut/maxx.html
Contender
Randy,
Contender is a quality supplier, and if you have your heart set on a crosscut sail this is the right choice. I still feel it will be "less than" a tri-radial or load path sail, but everything is a trade off.
I have sent a note to my sailmaking buddies to get the real scoop on the MAXX fabric and will et back to you.
Cheers
Randy,
Contender is a quality supplier, and if you have your heart set on a crosscut sail this is the right choice. I still feel it will be "less than" a tri-radial or load path sail, but everything is a trade off.
I have sent a note to my sailmaking buddies to get the real scoop on the MAXX fabric and will et back to you.
Cheers
sail cloth
Randy, below is a response from one of the major sailmakers, and one I know to use very good fabric (my notes in red):
The DP Flex (Dimension-Polyant) is probably better, but neither will really hold great shape long. It all really depends on the specific type of sail and its intended use and where they are sailing. I don't use much if really any of it. Havn't seen any of the new Contender Maxx stuff. Never really been a fan. Just remember....Cruising sailors want three things from a new sail:
1. Low Price
2. Durability In terms of shape holding and staying in one piece
3. Ultimate Performance
There is not a sailmaker in the world that has been able to deliver all 3..I tell customers to pick 2 things.
So, he likes the DP product better (designed for the same application), but like me, believes that if you are going to use laminates, you should go the right route and use the proven fabric and construction techniques. If I reallty wanted a crosscut sail I would get a high quality dacron and be done with it..
Cheers!
Randy, below is a response from one of the major sailmakers, and one I know to use very good fabric (my notes in red):
The DP Flex (Dimension-Polyant) is probably better, but neither will really hold great shape long. It all really depends on the specific type of sail and its intended use and where they are sailing. I don't use much if really any of it. Havn't seen any of the new Contender Maxx stuff. Never really been a fan. Just remember....Cruising sailors want three things from a new sail:
1. Low Price
2. Durability In terms of shape holding and staying in one piece
3. Ultimate Performance
There is not a sailmaker in the world that has been able to deliver all 3..I tell customers to pick 2 things.
So, he likes the DP product better (designed for the same application), but like me, believes that if you are going to use laminates, you should go the right route and use the proven fabric and construction techniques. If I reallty wanted a crosscut sail I would get a high quality dacron and be done with it..
Cheers!
Randy Rutledge
Sustaining Member
Seth
THanks I knew I could count on you for the straight story. Thanks again for going the extra mile.
I have decided that trailering the E29 700 miles round trip to Mobile Bay, Al each year is more than I want to do so I have bought a Mirage 236 to race and the E29 will be my cruiser and weekend live aboard. The new sails will be for the Mirage.
Randy
THanks I knew I could count on you for the straight story. Thanks again for going the extra mile.
I have decided that trailering the E29 700 miles round trip to Mobile Bay, Al each year is more than I want to do so I have bought a Mirage 236 to race and the E29 will be my cruiser and weekend live aboard. The new sails will be for the Mirage.
Randy
Good luck with the Mirage Randy. I know you're not racing your E29 (in Alabama anyway), but thought you would be interested that I just replaced the 135 on my E29 with a new mitre cut one from Mack Sails in Marblehead dacron. The difference in performance is astounding - granted, my 'retired' 135 has uncertain roots, having bought it second hand from, well, Second Hand sails (I think it was rated as an 8, and I paid something like $400 for it in 2005). Anyway, it was definitely time for new one as some of the stitching in the old one was coming apart and a local sailmaker's opinion was that restitching it was not worth it. Now, the boat is stiffer, I don't have to reef as early, and feel like I have a turbocharger. Don't know how long the shape will last, but hope I can count on many years of good perfomance with this Genny.
I also got a tri-radial A-Spinnaker. Did a shakedown cruise to Ocracoke with the wind on a beam-broad reach at 15 knots (gusts to 20?). Had her going over 8 knots at times. The boat has never sailed like that before, at least while I have owned her. Fun!... though I don't think I'd want to be flying it in anything more... 15-20 knots was pretty intense to say the least, and can see how it could be shredded with some faulty moves.
I would definitley recommend the folks at Mack Sails. Had some minor issues with sizing, but they took care of everything, including shipping. The quality seems solid, and the service was exceptional.
I also got a tri-radial A-Spinnaker. Did a shakedown cruise to Ocracoke with the wind on a beam-broad reach at 15 knots (gusts to 20?). Had her going over 8 knots at times. The boat has never sailed like that before, at least while I have owned her. Fun!... though I don't think I'd want to be flying it in anything more... 15-20 knots was pretty intense to say the least, and can see how it could be shredded with some faulty moves.
I would definitley recommend the folks at Mack Sails. Had some minor issues with sizing, but they took care of everything, including shipping. The quality seems solid, and the service was exceptional.
Randy Rutledge
Sustaining Member
John
I have been racing Rumkin in club racing at lake Weiss, Rome Sailing Club with mid pack finishes after correction. An E 29 is not the boat to race in short races. Our last race I finished the race in less than 15 min and placed 6th. I did take a 2nd in the Dauphin Islande Warm-up and 1St in class in the Dauphin Island this April with top speed of 9.8 knots, a good time to retire Rumkin from that race.
The decision to get the Mirage as a race boat was that the towing of the E29 was dangerous and the prep at each end was such a task. I will always appreciate the races on Rumkin and the feel of such a great boat beneath me. I almost feel like a cheating husband for having another boat to race.
I have been racing Rumkin in club racing at lake Weiss, Rome Sailing Club with mid pack finishes after correction. An E 29 is not the boat to race in short races. Our last race I finished the race in less than 15 min and placed 6th. I did take a 2nd in the Dauphin Islande Warm-up and 1St in class in the Dauphin Island this April with top speed of 9.8 knots, a good time to retire Rumkin from that race.
The decision to get the Mirage as a race boat was that the towing of the E29 was dangerous and the prep at each end was such a task. I will always appreciate the races on Rumkin and the feel of such a great boat beneath me. I almost feel like a cheating husband for having another boat to race.