Pathfinder Gear Box Maintenance?

[PANorth]

Does anyone have a manual or other information for a Pathfinder gear box? The E38 is from 1982 so I assume the engine is a Pathfinder 50. We are so close to going sailing after a nearly three year refit. The engine is sounding good, but the gear box is sounding rough. I don't know how much fluid is supposed to be in the gear box. I pulled the tube that I assume is a dipstick (?) but it wasn't helpful in determining the level of the fluid. Can anyone offer information or advice?

 

[Loren Beach]

A quick web search finds some threads on Cruisers Forum, like this: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/vw-pathfinder-50-marine-diesel-questions-259904.html

There seems to be major difficulty with manuals and parts, albeit with some owners finding some sources.

If the boat is a long term "keeper" in all other respects I would install a new Betamarine package, but that's not the question under consideration.

(Coincidently and "apropos of whatever" we looked at a well-used early E-38 on Bainbridge Island about 15 years ago. Noticed it in a CL ad.
Same VW engine, under a depressing black layer of oily crud. Whole interior was filthy to the point where we were cautious about touching a bulkhead. And, insult to injury, someone had repainted the deck with a broom. Well, it might have been a smaller brush than a broom..... Price was quite low, but it would have involved a huge restoration. We walked/ran away! Judging by the number of winches it was originally spec'd out as a racing boat in the early 80's. )

 

[PANorth]

A quick web search finds some threads on Cruisers Forum, like this: https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f54/vw-pathfinder-50-marine-diesel-questions-259904.html

There seems to be major difficulty with manuals and parts, albeit with some owners finding some sources.

If the boat is a long term "keeper" in all other respects I would install a new Betamarine package, but that's not the question under consideration.

(Coincidently and "apropos of whatever" we looked at a well-used early E-38 on Bainbridge Island about 15 years ago. Noticed it in a CL ad.
Same VW engine, under a depressing black layer of oily crud. Whole interior was filthy to the point where we were cautious about touching a bulkhead. And, insult to injury, someone had repainted the deck with a broom. Well, it might have been a smaller brush than a broom..... Price was quite low, but it would have involved a huge restoration. We walked/ran away! Judging by the number of winches it was originally spec'd out as a racing boat in the early 80's. )

I followed this and other Cruisers Forum threads about the Pathfinder but none provided the information that I needed. There is a manual floating around on the web. The manual has been helpful for other aspect of the Pathfinder but not how much fluid the gear box gets.

We bought this boat in San Diego and trucked it up to Puget Sound. This engine sounded pretty rough when we bought the boat but an oil change made all the difference. We got a good price and, in addition to the blisters repairs, decided to make a bunch of upgrades on worn out parts. The rough sounding gear box is the last thing keeping us from sailing. Everything else is non-critical.

 

[PANorth]

I followed this and other Cruisers Forum threads about the Pathfinder but none provided the information that I needed. There is a manual floating around on the web. The manual has been helpful for other aspect of the Pathfinder but not how much fluid the gear box gets.

We bought this boat in San Diego and trucked it up to Puget Sound. This engine sounded pretty rough when we bought the boat but an oil change made all the difference. We got a good price and, in addition to the blisters repairs, decided to make a bunch of upgrades on worn out parts. The rough sounding gear box is the last thing keeping us from sailing. Everything else is non-critical.

And I forgot to say that we would love to replace the engine, but it's not in the budget for a while.

 

[peaman]

I wonder if the gearbox was made by Pathfinder, or instead by a different manufacturer, such as ZF or Hurth? There may be marks or a tag or stamping on your transmission to help identify it, like the "ZF" in the attached image of a Pathfinder engine.

 

[Pete the Cat]

I doubt the transmission was made by Pathfinder. I agree you should look at the label on the transmission. This picture is of what I believe to be a Hurth 150. On the subject of future replacements, I am not a fan of "marinized" land engines, though that is the predominant and somewhat cheaper way to go--Westerbeke and others never made a diesel engine themselves. Although the advertising for them suggests that "you can buy parts from a tractor store", you probably cannot buy the parts that actually require replacement: the heat exchanger, raw water pumps, oil coolers and such. When you "marinize" a tractor engine, you introduce a whole group of dissimilar metals in an galvanic mess of potential corrosion to cool it. Short term it may be cheaper than a marine designed Yanmar with more expensive metals, but longer term--I doubt it. I realize the Betamarine folks, at least initially, were very customer focused (unlike Yanmar who focus on larger marine applications) and promised (though did not always deliver) "drop in replacements" for many production boats, and did so at competitive prices. If you are considering a repower in the future, I would do more homework with the folks in the boatyard and charter fleets who have experience with all brands. I seem to recall that a mechanic friend said that the block of the Pathfinder is an excellent design, but that it had a timing belt that was critical and failure of it could trash the engine--but you probably knew that already. FWIW.

 

[Loren Beach]

One caveat, if I may.....
Yanmar, like the other builders of smaller (and not so small) makes engines that are adapted to a huge variety of end uses. A friend that has owned an E-38-200 with a 3 cylinder Yanmar (EY installed when built) for many years also owns a mid size tractor backhoe made by.... Yanmar.

As pointed out, the adaption design and engineering for marine use is important. Our OEM Universal and our replacement Betamarine are Kubota engines/blocks. Strictly IMHO the Beta engineering is far superior than the work by Universal/Westerbeke.
The comment about gathering info from folks "in the trade" is accurate also. When we were preparing for our engine swap, local mechanics advised a new Betamarine, with a Yanmar being second choice. They all said to avoid Volvo.

Back to transmissions. Our Ericson OEM transmission was the Hurth model 50, and given the widespread condemnation of that model we felt very lucky to get 2100 hours out of it.
The Betamarine came with a TMC40. https://betamarine.co.uk/resources/GA_Drawings/Seagoing/B25-TMC40/#page=1
So far so good.

 

[Pete the Cat]

One caveat, if I may.....
Yanmar, like the other builders of smaller (and not so small) makes engines that are adapted to a huge variety of end uses. A friend that has owned an E-38-200 with a 3 cylinder Yanmar (EY installed when built) for many years also owns a mid size tractor backhoe made by.... Yanmar.

As pointed out, the adaption design and engineering for marine use is important. Our OEM Universal and our replacement Betamarine are Kubota engines/blocks. Strictly IMHO the Beta engineering is far superior than the work by Universal/Westerbeke.
The comment about gathering info from folks "in the trade" is accurate also. When we were preparing for our engine swap, local mechanics advised a new Betamarine, with a Yanmar being second choice. They all said to avoid Volvo.

Back to transmissions. Our Ericson OEM transmission was the Hurth model 50, and given the widespread condemnation of that model we felt very lucky to get 2100 hours out of it.
The Betamarine came with a TMC40. https://betamarine.co.uk/resources/GA_Drawings/Seagoing/B25-TMC40/#page=1
So far so good.

Ok I will drop this after this comment. You should buy what you want and trust. Yanmar does make other diesel engines for other applications--many applications--including huge diesel electric generators for land use, but they design their marine engines for marine use. I guarantee you that the 3 cylinder Yanmar on your friend's tractor is substantially different from the 3 cylinder Yanmar Marine Diesel on my Tartan 37--mine has a built in raw water heat exchanger which would, not be a part of a tractor engine design. The recent Yanmars do not require putting zincs it to minimize corrosion because they match the alloys used in the built in sea water cooling systems. The Yanmar marine engines are designed for marine use. There is a reason that the charter fleets in the Caribbean generally specify Yanmar. But Beta has a much better customer service and support system than Yanmar from what I have heard, and they are reportedly willing to customize mounting hardware in repower situations that can be complex for a DIY or a yard without a machine shop. So those may be considerations in a repower situation. All diesels in a marine environment require special attention to ensure longevity. FWIW.