Personal minimums

[csoule13]

Hello all,

I am coming to sailing from a private pilot point of view. It was drilled into me, especially as a low time pilot, to have a set of personal minimums. No flying unless the cloud deck was, say, over 3000' AGL, winds under 15 kts, no crosswind over 10 kts. These type of limits are constantly reviewed based on currency and proficency.

So as a novice sailor with a new to us, gorgeous Ericson 30, I'm trying to apply some of those lessons learned to my sailing. At the moment, we simply don't have the experience to know the difference between, say, 8 kts of wind and 12 kts. 1 ft waves vs. 3. We are sailing in the Rhode/West river section of the Chesapeake Bay, as well as the Bay itself. And yes, this question comes about because we spooked ourselves a little in variable winds gusting to the 12-14 kt range. What seemed generally fine pretty quickly made us realize we were nearing the edge of our comfort zone.

On the bright side, we were smart enough to get the boat pointed into the wind with plenty of water under and around us, and get the sails down quickly and safely. So, lessons learned with not more than a little bruised pride. But it would be nice to add to our pre-sail checklist a general boundary of conditions to aide in the mental prep for a sail. Any and all suggestions would be deeply appreciated.

Take care.

 

[Rick R.]

Everyone is different...

Welcome to the forum!

We started sailing three years ago shortly before we purchased our 32-200. It's funny how much that threshold has changed for us over these short years.

I used to feel uncomfortable if I saw whitecaps (12-15kts) and my wife even at 10 kts of wind. Now we are much more confident in our boat and ourselves. We have been caught in storms and much higher winds aboard since and our boat handles it all quite well.

We have forced ourselves (ok, I have) to leave the dock in conditions that others wouldn't like so we could get accustomed to handling the boat (and ourselves) in adverse conditions.

My my wife still gets nervous when the boat gets a nice puff and heels suddenly. I can't convince her with logic, it's just not going to happen.

You will get a lot of different answers here from sailors with a lot more experience than I have, but I will tell you that starting out 10-12 kt winds are a piece of cake. Think of reefing at 15 and things will stay comfortable. You can always shake it our later.
Rick

 

[csoule13]

Thanks Rick. That lines up pretty well with the aviation approach as well. And of course, always knowing your outs. Between gaining experience with sailing in general, learning the particulars of the boat itself, and learning the unique things about our local waters, it will be an exciting season. Trusting the boat is very low on this list.

 

[Christian Williams]

Probably you were spooked by gusts greater than that. As Rick says, whitecaps begin about 13 knots, and that is easy sailing. Get a simple wind gauge--a handheld pitot tube-- so you can match numbers to experience.

On the West or Rhode Rivers, the "out" the yachting aviator always has is simply to anchor. However, the bottom is often weed, and an imitation Danforth may be useless when you need it. Ask what anchors work and set yourself up with the best for the local bottom.

Why anchor? Because in your environment, the only cause for concern is a thunderstorm. It may have a gust front of 60 knots. It will pass over in 20 minutes and leave you becalmed, but contains real wind. The easiest solution when this towering thing rumbles toward you at 4:11 p.m. on that hot Sunday afternoon is to put out the hook, lower the sails, and enjoy the show. I have been blown halfway across the bay from Thomas Point Light while dragging a cheap anchor, so a proper anchor system is necessary.

It's April, and so it's windy, but it won't last. In this season, when in doubt sail under jib alone. Or main alone. Ericsons tack and handle very well that way, and there are fewer distractions.

I can;t really come up with useful personal minimums to advocate. For me, it's more who's on board. With a couple of burly Marines in the cockpit, heavy wind is fun and you can experiment and laugh when she jibes and broaches under spinnaker in 40 knots. My point is this usually doesn;t break anything and the boat laughs it off, too. It's designed for lots more than you can give it. And if something's going to break under strain, you want to strain it and break it with those guys on board. To know a boat, you need to go out in 25 knots with a willing crew and slam it around. YOu may skin a knuckle, lose a cushion and discover gear that needs replacement, but whatever mistakes you make the lesson will be that the boat itself is not a crystal chandelier but a rugged vehicle designed to to bash waves, take brutal knockdowns and pop back up with a grin.

With kids and dependents on board, for the moment take it slow, avoid weather predicted "gusting to 20". I recommend this set of mind: if anybody is not enjoying things, immediately turn back to the slip and shelter. No hesitation, and do it with a smile. We want them to enjoy it. A boat in a slip is a nice place to have a beer, too.

I emphasize that this windy, cold season goes by fast. By August there will often not be any wind at all, so use these days to learn what you can.

In the Annapolis area there is almost never a thunderstorm before 3 or 4 p.m. That was my factor in planning summers when I raised kids there. On thunderstormy days, plan to be back early.

Otherwise, no rocks, no currents, no fog, no containerships-- a wonderful place to learn it all, day by day more confident and at ease.

Cheers,
Christian
IR single engine

 

[G Kiba]

csoule13
A good approach to learning how to sail and building confidence is getting to know the local long-time sailors in your area. Most sailors are very approachable and are willing to help out someone new. The trick is finding the right person. Someone you can build trust in and get along with is the best. You can usually tell who sails most often - their boats are usually not in the marina. Keep track of who goes out a lot and introduce yourself. If you can, go for regular sails on their boat. My wife's confidence soared when we sailed with our new friends who had more experience! Sailors love to tell stories! You can learn all about the dangers and pleasures of sailing in your area just from listening.
This has got to be the same in flying I suspect.

In five or ten years you can pay it back to the next newbie.
The pride of "doing it all yourself" is overrated and at times dangerous.

 

[PDX]

Hello all,

I am coming to sailing from a private pilot point of view. It was drilled into me, especially as a low time pilot, to have a set of personal minimums. No flying unless the cloud deck was, say, over 3000' AGL, winds under 15 kts, no crosswind over 10 kts. These type of limits are constantly reviewed based on currency and proficency.

So as a novice sailor with a new to us, gorgeous Ericson 30, I'm trying to apply some of those lessons learned to my sailing. At the moment, we simply don't have the experience to know the difference between, say, 8 kts of wind and 12 kts. 1 ft waves vs. 3. We are sailing in the Rhode/West river section of the Chesapeake Bay, as well as the Bay itself. And yes, this question comes about because we spooked ourselves a little in variable winds gusting to the 12-14 kt range. What seemed generally fine pretty quickly made us realize we were nearing the edge of our comfort zone.

On the bright side, we were smart enough to get the boat pointed into the wind with plenty of water under and around us, and get the sails down quickly and safely. So, lessons learned with not more than a little bruised pride. But it would be nice to add to our pre-sail checklist a general boundary of conditions to aide in the mental prep for a sail. Any and all suggestions would be deeply appreciated.

Take care.

The first thing I would do would be to research previous threads discussing E30+ sailing characteristics and techniques used by their owners--when they typically reef and what other techniques they use to prevent the boat from getting over powered.

Another thing you might try is sailing with one reef in until you get a better feel for your boat. Your boat has a huge mainsail for a 30 footer.

 

[Schrewsburyduo]

I sailed for years in the upper Chesapeake. Had an O'day 23. Not very seaworthy, but I made it do as much as it could. New sails, furling genoa, and most important, two reefs in the main that were deep (i.e. first reef was placed halfway between where normally the 1st and second reef would go., the second reef was placed where the 3rd reef would go). With this rig, and the ability to reef the genoa by roller furling, I managed quite well. Chesapeake is very forgiving. You can't assume the weather stays put.... I remember one time I sailed on January 1 -- it was spectacular weather -- 45 degrees, sun. Light winds. And then suddenly.... a warm front -- temp shot up to 65 degrees and winds at over 20. I happened to be on the phone when that happened. It was pandemonium for a while but once the reef was in and the headsail furled so only a tiny patch showed, we were back to sailing comfortably.

The biggest problem for where you are is that the waves on the Chesapeake can be nasty. Short chop and steep waves. Only once I encountered it in a storm where I was beating north against 28 gusting 32 against the 3.5 knot current at pooles island when returning from Rock Hall. The wind did not bother the boat at all and we were beating comfortably heeling and all... The waves however were too much with huge pounding that took its toll on my stomach, and when I finally balanced the rig and turned the outboard on at full steam, we were finally making 1 knot made good.... Took 12 hours to get back the trip that took 6 hours getting there....

But having said that -- you have an Ericson.... Inherently a great boat. If you get it set up so reefing happens easily, and conservatively.... you should be fine. If you see any potential for thunderstorm, get out of the channel, throw the anchor and set it up ahead of time. It's an eery feeling waiting for a huge storm to pass by all the while being scared that some barge is going to run you over because visibility is next to zero. But those are the only hazards, and help is always close. As confidence builds, I think you will be increasingly bored with 10 knots. It is a nice feeling sailing in 25 knots where it sounds scary but when being well balanced, the boat sails quite conservatively and there is little heeling etc. Good luck.

 

[G Kiba]

Building Confidence

Being equipped and prepared for changing weather is a very important thing in sailing. Being well prepared usually requires experience and/or knowledge along with the confidence of knowing what to do (contingencies) in a situation. Both knowledge and confidence can be gained by either first or second hand experiences.

Last Saturday my dog and I were caught up in a wind storm on the delta on an outgoing tide. We reefed, then double reefed, then changed to 80% head sail. Ended up finding shelter and waited it out for 4 hours. Great experience. You can't get that at Disneyland. Al leas not the real stuff.

 

[Jeff Asbury]

Reef early, Reef often.