pressure and hot water problems

[hdlEric]

Once again I am back to look for answers for all you knowledgable and nice folks. My Shuffle freshwater pump runs, but will not stop. It was running OK at the end of last season, but alas just runs this year. I am getting some water out of the sink faucet, but only drops from the head sink.

Also, I do not have any hot water.
I have an '87 E 34.
Anybody have any ideas??
Thanks so much in advance!!!!!

 

[debonAir]

My guess: you have a filter screen that clogged with gunk that got sucked in when the tank emptied for winterizing. That puts a restriction on the water source, and the vacuum created by your pump is drawing air in some place so it never reaches pressure on the output side and remains running. If there was less source fluid restriction, the source of air would be blocked by water. Or maybe you have a new air source from a cracked source pipe (improper winterization?)

Look for the filter screen in the pump supply pipe. Should be close to the pump but could be anywhere (Shurflo pump installation says it requires a supply screen). The screen should have a twist-and-pull-apart opening. You can open, take out the screen, clean it off, replace and re-try your water. Might take a number of attempts. I ended up putting a much larger screen filter in front of the smaller one that was on my boat to cut down on the issue.

 

[Leslie Newman]

The pump must build pressure in the whole system or it won't stop running. Most all fresh water pumps have a pressure sensor device built into them that regulates the water pressure. You might also want to check for a water leak in the boat's fresh water system.

I noticed with our pump this weekend that if you turned on the water faucet before the pump had brought the system up to pressure and turned itself off that the pump got into a mode where it never caught up building pressure and it just ran constantly. A good stream of water was coming out the faucet, but really the pump should be turning on and off, not constantly running. Once I realized what was happening I told my wife to turn off the sink faucet until she heard the pump stop. She did and then once the pump stopped and she turned on the faucet it did its normal thing of turning on and off as the pressure was regulated.

 

[footrope]

Your pump's pressure switch or diaphragm may have failed. Generally the pump diaphragm is OK, but not always. I have had both situations. I found myself replacing water pumps with the internal switch about every two to three years for the problem you describe. Some of the failures were probably my fault for not keeping the boat warm enough or not winterizing the system.

As I see it, your alternatives are to replace the pump with a similar one, or to wire around the internal switch and add an external pressure switch that is more durable than the one in the pump. Since adding the external switch several years ago my pressure system has worked fine. I got my switch from Grainger. You'll have to do some new plumbing to insert the external pressure switch in the proper place in the system. These water systems should be set to turn off at about 40-45 psi. You would need a pressure gauge (hardware store) plumbed in to monitor and set pressure on an external switch.

So, once you eliminate leaks as the source of low/no pressure, the pump/switch is the next likely step you should take.

Your hot water problem is unclear. Do you get water but it is not hot? Do you get no water at all? Is your water heater electric? And does it get heat from the engine cooling system?

 

[hdlEric]

Thanks to all who have sent in suggestions to my pressure water system....... but alas, I still have a malfunctioning pressure/hot water system...........I even resorted to buying an NEW BLOODY PUMP.........still, it just runs and runs, and dribbles and dribbles; COLD WATER, STILL NO HOT. . If I disconnect the output hose from the output side of the pump, I get a GOOD stream. Connect it back up and SOS.

 

[hdlEric]

Thanks to all who have sent in suggestions to my pressure water system....... but alas, I still have a malfunctioning pressure/hot water system...........I even resorted to buying an NEW BLOODY PUMP.........still, it just runs and runs, and dribbles and dribbles; COLD WATER, STILL NO HOT. . If I disconnect the output hose from the output side of the pump, I get a GOOD stream. Connect it back up and SOS.

Another piece of information, which I have a strange feeling is important is: when I fill the system, there comes a point, where a lot of water and air come gushing out......I wait patiently for things to settle down, then I end up needing more water, and the cycle starts again.

 

[debonAir]

hmmm, if you're getting good flow/pressure from the output side of the pump but nothing from the faucet there's obviously either a blockage or big leak somewhere upstream of the pump. The leak you can detect if your bilge is filling with fresh water. The blockage a bit harder. The first thing I'd do is unscrew the aerator screen on the faucet and clean it out. It can fill with crud from the tanks and block flow. With the aerator out, connect a hose from the output of the pump to the faucet (or a hose from dock water) and try to push water back down the pipes from the faucet. You should see the water come out of the hose where the pump output normally connects. That might clear any blockage.

Also, the water tanks should have overflow/vent tubes. When you fill your tank the displaced air (and eventually water) should come out the vent tube and not the fill tube opening (unless your filling very fast). If water and air gushes out the fill tube before your tank its full could be sign that your vent tube is blocked. If so, the air in the tank is getting pressurized as you fill it and eventually blows water back up the fill tube. This also would cause suction side issues. With the fill cap on, the water pump would run fine for a minute but then start pulling a vacuum in the tank restricting flow. Try running the faucet with the fill cap off. If that works fine your vent tube is maybe blocked.

 

[cruis-n]

Sounds likean air leak in the system

Assuming that you have no leaks downstream (pressure side) of the pump, I say I've seen this behavior before.

In my case the pump is installed after the galley foot pump. When the pump is running, it is sucking a bit of air through the sink spigot/foot pump. The pressure pump sucks the air/water through and compresses the air, some of it going into solution. As the air goes into solution, the pump starts up again or just keeps running.

Given that you describe the system spewing air/water, the most likely cause is the sink spigot. If you don't have one, look for a crack/split hose between the tank and the pump where air is being drawn into the system.

Note that if there is a blockage in upstream (intake) side of the system, you will hear the pump load down and strain to draw water.

If it is the sink spigot/foot pump, you can disconnect the foot pump but that defeats the water conservation benefits. Alternatives are to add a shutoff valve before the spigot or as I have done, put a plug/cap on the end of the spigot.

Good luck.
Paul

 

[Christian Williams]

Try putting your finger over the foot pump sink spout while the water pump runs. Once the system is primed, all is OK.

If that doesn't work, you're probably getting air in the system somewhere else, most likely through a connection.

 

[Afrakes]

Reverse pressurizing

I had a similar problem this spring. Pump wouldn't pressurize. Last fall I blew out the lines with air as I always do. I have a ShurFlo sediment filter and a finer filter before the water pump. The finer filter has a crack on the back side. not visible. I reversed pressure in the lines and that's when the trouble became apparent. Water squirting out of the back side of the filter. I changed that and all was OK. Remember to take the small filters out of the head and galley spouts. Mine are always picking up debris from these old lines.

 

[Rocinante33]

I once had this same problem and started to look around for a new pump. Before I pulled the trigger to buy one, I added water to my tank. Problem solved! I hadn’t realized how low the tank had gotten.

 

[cruis-n]

How did your issue turn out?

hdlEric -
Did you successfully identify the source of your pressure/hot water water problem?
Wondered if it was something the crowd identified or was it something totally new.

It's a boat, there is always something new to learn.

Regards,
Paul

 

[hdlEric]

Paul, Yes, I found the problem, or I should say someone I hired did. It turned out to be a leak in my hot water tank. He by passed the water heater tank, and I have cold pressure water, but will have to repair/replace the hot water heater/tank.
Howard

 

[cruis-n]

Glad you figured it out.

The next challenge is getting the old tank out and a new one in. I ended up having to disassemble the tank to get it to fit through the lazarette. While the old tank is out, you might consider painting the area where the old tank was. Sure spiffs up the area.

Best of luck,
Paul

 

[Christian Williams]

Here is a blow-by-blow description of changing water heaters.

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?238-Water-Heater-Replacement-Raritan-to-WM-Kuuma