Replacing Vinyl Lining in V-Berth Shelf
Steve Swann
Member III
Try Fabric Shops
I don't know exactly what the fabric shops call this material, but I found the identical new material there in a wide range of colors and it was relatively inexpensive. I used contact cement to put down the new stuff. I have seen this material in about every fabric shop that my wife has dragged me in to.
My old stuff had some sort of thin foam backing that turned to powder and it all removed with just a simple pull. I used a brush to remove all of this remaining stuck-on foam and whatever loose glue that would come off. I replaced with new that was the same color, but had a fuzzy, fabric backing, not the foam. This was 2 years ago and no problems. A word of caution, maintain good ventilation while working with adhesives in the forepeak!
You might think about being prepared to replace or run some new wires forward at the same time. My wiring to the nav lights ran forward under this material.
Steve Swann
1977 E25c/b
I don't know exactly what the fabric shops call this material, but I found the identical new material there in a wide range of colors and it was relatively inexpensive. I used contact cement to put down the new stuff. I have seen this material in about every fabric shop that my wife has dragged me in to.
My old stuff had some sort of thin foam backing that turned to powder and it all removed with just a simple pull. I used a brush to remove all of this remaining stuck-on foam and whatever loose glue that would come off. I replaced with new that was the same color, but had a fuzzy, fabric backing, not the foam. This was 2 years ago and no problems. A word of caution, maintain good ventilation while working with adhesives in the forepeak!
You might think about being prepared to replace or run some new wires forward at the same time. My wiring to the nav lights ran forward under this material.
Steve Swann
1977 E25c/b
Thanks for the reply. I thought I would use the material that you mentioned, but figured I should ask if there is a better option first. Question: Contact cement? Did you brush that on with paint brush? When I think of contact cement, I think of coating both surfaces, letting them dry to the touch, then attach, with no option to adjust after the two treated surfaces make contact. Surely that would be difficult. Do I understand you correctly? I thought about using a spray adhesive. Your thoughts? Thanks Steve.
Mg
Mg
Steve Swann
Member III
Contact Cement Worked Well
MG,
I couldn't think of another way to support the material, so I resigned myself to using contact cement. I used the brush-on contact cement (both sides) on a warm day (it was a variety that, uncured, cleaned up with water). I hesitated, thinking just as you are, but it actually worked out surprisingly well. In hindsight, this was the best choice, I think.
I think it is important to start attaching at the bottom of the shelf and start in the center working outward. If necessary, use a helper to keep the material from folding back on itself if it is a big piece. I started at the bottom allowing the contact cement to contact, then I just worked it up and pushing ever-so-gently out from the center (not too hard!) to attach moving outward from the middle to the sides. You don't want the material stretched and stressed, but you want enough just enough tension to eliminate wrinkling. When fully attached, because the material was slightly stretched, it had "grown" a bit from my original relaxed pattern-cutting. I had to do a couple of snips here and there with scissors for final trim but my job actually turned out superior to the factory job IMHO.
Remember, this material is a bit stretchy, so I was able to work it into place easily without creases and folds. It is really floppy material, so by working up from the bottom, it stays pretty well flopped over onto your hand and wrist. I was really pleased with how easily it worked and went on. It really looked nice!
Steve
MG,
I couldn't think of another way to support the material, so I resigned myself to using contact cement. I used the brush-on contact cement (both sides) on a warm day (it was a variety that, uncured, cleaned up with water). I hesitated, thinking just as you are, but it actually worked out surprisingly well. In hindsight, this was the best choice, I think.
I think it is important to start attaching at the bottom of the shelf and start in the center working outward. If necessary, use a helper to keep the material from folding back on itself if it is a big piece. I started at the bottom allowing the contact cement to contact, then I just worked it up and pushing ever-so-gently out from the center (not too hard!) to attach moving outward from the middle to the sides. You don't want the material stretched and stressed, but you want enough just enough tension to eliminate wrinkling. When fully attached, because the material was slightly stretched, it had "grown" a bit from my original relaxed pattern-cutting. I had to do a couple of snips here and there with scissors for final trim but my job actually turned out superior to the factory job IMHO.
Remember, this material is a bit stretchy, so I was able to work it into place easily without creases and folds. It is really floppy material, so by working up from the bottom, it stays pretty well flopped over onto your hand and wrist. I was really pleased with how easily it worked and went on. It really looked nice!
Steve
ChrisS
Member III
I'm in the same situation right now, but I am re-lining the hull of the quarterberth. I pulled the old foam-backed vinyl out, reordered some new material from a place online called "Gary's Upholstry," but www.sailrite has fabrics too. My plan was to install this stuff in the quarterberth, and then do the vee berth later.
The problem I ran into was that after ordering the material and prepping the surface, I visited my boat in a rainstorm and saw water weeping into the boat in the area of the hull/deck joint. Despite sealing every piece of deck hardware in the area, I still get a slow slow weep of water, which, if I install the foam-backed vinyl, will get behind the fabric and promote mildew.
Yesterday I went down to the local Home Depot to look at indoor/outdoor carpet. They have some grey carpets which look okay and are called "mildew resistant" (not mildew proof). So I am trying to make the call--foam or carpet? The carpet is cheap; I like the look of the vinyl; but which will be better?
The shelving area in the vee berth of my boat is painted, flat white. This won't work well near/at the waterline because of noise, and probably condensation. But it works fine for a small area like the shelving.
As for glue, 3M makes a spray on called "Super Trim" that is supposed to be easier to work with than contact cement--you get 10 minutes to set it up before it sticks. They didn't have it at Home Depot but I am trying to track it down somewhere else. If I were doing a small place, I'd use three strips of velcro, so I could remove it if possible.
The problem I ran into was that after ordering the material and prepping the surface, I visited my boat in a rainstorm and saw water weeping into the boat in the area of the hull/deck joint. Despite sealing every piece of deck hardware in the area, I still get a slow slow weep of water, which, if I install the foam-backed vinyl, will get behind the fabric and promote mildew.
Yesterday I went down to the local Home Depot to look at indoor/outdoor carpet. They have some grey carpets which look okay and are called "mildew resistant" (not mildew proof). So I am trying to make the call--foam or carpet? The carpet is cheap; I like the look of the vinyl; but which will be better?
The shelving area in the vee berth of my boat is painted, flat white. This won't work well near/at the waterline because of noise, and probably condensation. But it works fine for a small area like the shelving.
As for glue, 3M makes a spray on called "Super Trim" that is supposed to be easier to work with than contact cement--you get 10 minutes to set it up before it sticks. They didn't have it at Home Depot but I am trying to track it down somewhere else. If I were doing a small place, I'd use three strips of velcro, so I could remove it if possible.
I have not noticed any leaking into the shelf area of my V-Berth. But, that could be the cause of this initial failure, and the problem might just reappear. Thanks for that comment. I want to make sure I don't have a leak before I redo this area.
Also, thanks for the comment about the spray adhesive. I'll consider both those options.
BTW, you may have to order this 3M product.
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Super-Trim-Adhesive-Yellow/dp/B00086I66Q
Also, thanks for the comment about the spray adhesive. I'll consider both those options.
BTW, you may have to order this 3M product.
http://www.amazon.com/3M-Super-Trim-Adhesive-Yellow/dp/B00086I66Q
I guess it depends on the model Ericson you have, but I found it much easier to use staples to attach the vinyl. Be sure to get the marine-grade stainless staples and use a good staple gun. Even with a good gun, I had to tap the staples down with a hammer before re-installing the teak trim over them.
Because we use our boat year-round, it was important for me to replace that useless 1/4-inch yellow foam between the hull and the vinyl with something that provided adequate insulation. After some trial and error, I found that a "sandwich" of 1/4-inch Reflectix Aluminum insulation and 1-inch 3M Thinsulate offered the best combination of insulation, sound deadening, mold/mildew resistance, and fire retardedness. 3M Thinsulate is a material commonly used to to line winter jackets. Take care that the Reflectix does not come in direct contact with any of the stainless deck hardware, which could lead to corrosion over time.
I have since replaced all of the headliners and berth liners with this configuration and after about 2 years, the cabin is definitely warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer.
Because we use our boat year-round, it was important for me to replace that useless 1/4-inch yellow foam between the hull and the vinyl with something that provided adequate insulation. After some trial and error, I found that a "sandwich" of 1/4-inch Reflectix Aluminum insulation and 1-inch 3M Thinsulate offered the best combination of insulation, sound deadening, mold/mildew resistance, and fire retardedness. 3M Thinsulate is a material commonly used to to line winter jackets. Take care that the Reflectix does not come in direct contact with any of the stainless deck hardware, which could lead to corrosion over time.
I have since replaced all of the headliners and berth liners with this configuration and after about 2 years, the cabin is definitely warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer.
I’ll be happy to describe the process. For the record, I did this on my 1983 Ercison 38, which uses a flexible vinyl material as opposed to laminated panels.
Using the old vinyl as a template, I rough-cut the new vinyl about 1-inch larger on all sides. I attached the new vinyl the across the bottom using stainless staples working from the center out, stretching the material slightly as I went. I then went up one of the sides from the bottom up stretching slightly as I went.
Next I prepared the insulation. The idea was to use the thickest insulation possible for that particular area, using alternating layers of Reflectix aluminum insulation and 1-inch 3M Thinsulate material held together with a small amount of 3M 90 Spray Adhesive. The best combination seemed to be Reflectix-Thinsulate-Reflectix. If this was too thick, I would eliminate on layer of Reflectix, etc, or if it was too thin, I would add another layer of Thinsulate, etc. Again, using the old vinyl as a template, I cut the Reflectix Aluminum insulation and the Thinsulate slightly smaller than the old vinyl. Then, I sprayed one side of the Reflectix with 3M 90 and one side of the Thinsulate with 3M 90, let them set for a few minutes, then pressed them together. I then glued another layer of Reflectix to the Thinsulate to make a “sandwich” (or not depending on the thickness needed).
After letting the insulation sandwich cure for a while, I inserted it between the partially installed vinyl and the hull or deck. I found that no adhesive was necessary at this step as the pressure of the finished vinyl would be more than enough to hold the thick insulation sandwich into place. If there was stainless hardware peaking through the deck, I covered it with a thick layer of rubber or a few layers of old vinyl using the 3M 90 adhesive, or I eliminated the outer aluminum layer and placed the Thinsulate side against the deck with Reflectix facing the interior (which is probably the best option if you think you will need to get at the deck hardware anytime soon).
With the insulation in place, I began stapling the remaining 2 sides. I stretched the material considerably as I widely spaced the stables several inches apart. This way I could easily remove staples and start over if creases formed. Once I was satisfied with the shape, I filled in with more staples, then trimmed the excess vinyl and re-installed the old (but freshly varnished) teak trim to cover the staples.
The description below includes new vinyl, but I only needed to replace the vinyl in one small part of the headliner where I accidentally tore it with a wayward drill. For the majority of the boat, I was able to disconnect 2 sides of the old vinyl, rip out the old ¼-inch yellow foam insulation and replace with carefully-measured new insulation.
I’m sure many of you on the east coast will think I’m a wimp, but when the temperature falls below 60 degrees, I fire-up a Dickinson propane cabin heater. The enhanced insulation plus a couple of battery-powered fans stuck to the deck hatches, makes for an extremely cozy cabin that is a pleasure to return to after those nighttime dives during lobster season.
Using the old vinyl as a template, I rough-cut the new vinyl about 1-inch larger on all sides. I attached the new vinyl the across the bottom using stainless staples working from the center out, stretching the material slightly as I went. I then went up one of the sides from the bottom up stretching slightly as I went.
Next I prepared the insulation. The idea was to use the thickest insulation possible for that particular area, using alternating layers of Reflectix aluminum insulation and 1-inch 3M Thinsulate material held together with a small amount of 3M 90 Spray Adhesive. The best combination seemed to be Reflectix-Thinsulate-Reflectix. If this was too thick, I would eliminate on layer of Reflectix, etc, or if it was too thin, I would add another layer of Thinsulate, etc. Again, using the old vinyl as a template, I cut the Reflectix Aluminum insulation and the Thinsulate slightly smaller than the old vinyl. Then, I sprayed one side of the Reflectix with 3M 90 and one side of the Thinsulate with 3M 90, let them set for a few minutes, then pressed them together. I then glued another layer of Reflectix to the Thinsulate to make a “sandwich” (or not depending on the thickness needed).
After letting the insulation sandwich cure for a while, I inserted it between the partially installed vinyl and the hull or deck. I found that no adhesive was necessary at this step as the pressure of the finished vinyl would be more than enough to hold the thick insulation sandwich into place. If there was stainless hardware peaking through the deck, I covered it with a thick layer of rubber or a few layers of old vinyl using the 3M 90 adhesive, or I eliminated the outer aluminum layer and placed the Thinsulate side against the deck with Reflectix facing the interior (which is probably the best option if you think you will need to get at the deck hardware anytime soon).
With the insulation in place, I began stapling the remaining 2 sides. I stretched the material considerably as I widely spaced the stables several inches apart. This way I could easily remove staples and start over if creases formed. Once I was satisfied with the shape, I filled in with more staples, then trimmed the excess vinyl and re-installed the old (but freshly varnished) teak trim to cover the staples.
The description below includes new vinyl, but I only needed to replace the vinyl in one small part of the headliner where I accidentally tore it with a wayward drill. For the majority of the boat, I was able to disconnect 2 sides of the old vinyl, rip out the old ¼-inch yellow foam insulation and replace with carefully-measured new insulation.
I’m sure many of you on the east coast will think I’m a wimp, but when the temperature falls below 60 degrees, I fire-up a Dickinson propane cabin heater. The enhanced insulation plus a couple of battery-powered fans stuck to the deck hatches, makes for an extremely cozy cabin that is a pleasure to return to after those nighttime dives during lobster season.
Gary Freeburg
Member II
Liner
Sorry that I came to this thread a little late. I redid the interior of a pacific seacraft that I owned years ago and am about to do this same project on my E27. What I found that worked perfectly was making a run to the fabric store and buying a bolt of polypropelene (approx. 1/4" thickness). I chose a tan/beige color, cut a couple of inches larger than the space I wanted to cover, brushed on contact cement (wearing a canister mask that mostly removed the fumes) placed the fabric starting at the center and worked my way to the outside. Once attached, took a razor blade and did a final trim to fit the space. It looked great, keeps the hull/overhead from condensing/sweating and is easily vacuumed whenever it needs it. S2 Yachts used this material with good success.
Good luck.
Gary Freeburg
SV Katmai
Sorry that I came to this thread a little late. I redid the interior of a pacific seacraft that I owned years ago and am about to do this same project on my E27. What I found that worked perfectly was making a run to the fabric store and buying a bolt of polypropelene (approx. 1/4" thickness). I chose a tan/beige color, cut a couple of inches larger than the space I wanted to cover, brushed on contact cement (wearing a canister mask that mostly removed the fumes) placed the fabric starting at the center and worked my way to the outside. Once attached, took a razor blade and did a final trim to fit the space. It looked great, keeps the hull/overhead from condensing/sweating and is easily vacuumed whenever it needs it. S2 Yachts used this material with good success.
Good luck.
Gary Freeburg
SV Katmai
One note...
One Caveat: This is the same fabric that Ericson glued in for a "hull ceiling" on all the Olsons. If you ever leave it damp/wet and let dirt get into it you will have a mold farm... We ripped out over half of it from our "fixer upper" boat... Even with a powered carpet cleaner we could never completely get the smell of mildew/mold out of that fabric.
Great stuff, but... only... IF you keep it clean and dry.
Loren
______________________
One Caveat: This is the same fabric that Ericson glued in for a "hull ceiling" on all the Olsons. If you ever leave it damp/wet and let dirt get into it you will have a mold farm... We ripped out over half of it from our "fixer upper" boat... Even with a powered carpet cleaner we could never completely get the smell of mildew/mold out of that fabric.
Great stuff, but... only... IF you keep it clean and dry.
Loren
Closure
I finally got around to dealing with this issue, so I thought I would provide some closure for anyone that may use this thread in the future.
First, the material: My wife accompanied me to a local fabric store, held my hand, and guided me to where the "cheap stuff" is. I found exactly what I was looking for....on sale....$5.00!!! I stopped at Walmart and picked up a can of 3M spray adhesive. It was about $10, but I have all my materials for $15....I'm surprised and happy.
When I removed the wood face board for the cubby-holes, I noticed water in the bottom of the shelf on starboard side. Nuts that hold the stanchion were loose. I noticed a bulk of silicone caulk on the corresponding nut on topside, so realise that this has been an ongoing issue with the p.o. I'm going to fashion a backing plate before reinstalling vinyl on this shelf.
But, there was no sign of leaking from the portside, so I chose not to mess with it at this time. I replaced the vinyl on this side yesterday, and it worked out pretty well. I'm sure I will do a better job on the other side because of my experience. That's the one thing I would suggest to anyone doing this....do the least visible side first. It's not nearly as difficult as I expected, nor is it as easy as I would have liked. The most difficult part was rolling around up in the v-berth, bumping my head, gasping for oxygen with my nose full of fumes from the adhesive. Actually, I kept the area vented pretty well.
Thanks to all who reponded to my thread. It helped.
I finally got around to dealing with this issue, so I thought I would provide some closure for anyone that may use this thread in the future.
First, the material: My wife accompanied me to a local fabric store, held my hand, and guided me to where the "cheap stuff" is. I found exactly what I was looking for....on sale....$5.00!!! I stopped at Walmart and picked up a can of 3M spray adhesive. It was about $10, but I have all my materials for $15....I'm surprised and happy.
When I removed the wood face board for the cubby-holes, I noticed water in the bottom of the shelf on starboard side. Nuts that hold the stanchion were loose. I noticed a bulk of silicone caulk on the corresponding nut on topside, so realise that this has been an ongoing issue with the p.o. I'm going to fashion a backing plate before reinstalling vinyl on this shelf.
But, there was no sign of leaking from the portside, so I chose not to mess with it at this time. I replaced the vinyl on this side yesterday, and it worked out pretty well. I'm sure I will do a better job on the other side because of my experience. That's the one thing I would suggest to anyone doing this....do the least visible side first. It's not nearly as difficult as I expected, nor is it as easy as I would have liked. The most difficult part was rolling around up in the v-berth, bumping my head, gasping for oxygen with my nose full of fumes from the adhesive. Actually, I kept the area vented pretty well.
Thanks to all who reponded to my thread. It helped.