Reuse 7/32 Intermediate for Lifeline?

[Touchrain]

I'm about to replace my upper lifeline, which is currently 3/16 coated wire. I also have just replaced all of the standing rigging on our E-38, including the 7/32 intermediates. While I've planned to go with 1/4 uncoated 1x19, I am now toying with reusing either the 7/32 intermediates or, possibly the 9/32 from backstay or uppers. The wire appears in reasonably good shape and either should be significantly stronger than the original 3/16, right. Haven't decided between swage or mechanical fittings on the ends. (Oh, I'm guessing the rigging is more than two decades old.)

Any comments from Ericson land?

 

[Emerald]

The standard wire rope used on lifelines is 7x7, not 1x19. The 7 bundles of 7 bend more easily and handle better than 1x19, which doesn't like to make turns and is rather rigid. Doesn't mean you can't use 1x19 from a strength standpoint, but it might suck on something like a boarding gate when you go to open it and bend it out of the way. I've had good luck using Johnson's hand swaging tool for lifelines. I've done several sets that have come out looking and working nicely. I would highly recommend the Johnson gate hooks that have the load on the body of the casting, not the pin. Here's a link:

http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wc...toreNum=10102&subdeptNum=10206&classNum=10208

 

[Loren Beach]

As Dave points out, it's not the right wire layup for life lines. Also, it's OLD.
Given the purpose and the name (Life Lines) I would not put used old wire there.

Sell it for scrap.
I got about $35. out of all my old ss rigging, a few years ago.

Edit: here is a good lifeline replacement thread here:
http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?t=2429

Loren

 

[Touchrain]

Interesting comments. Rigging Only sells only 1x19 for lifelines and I believe I read elsewhere that it is the preferred wire, maybe it was on Brion Toss's site. I'm looking at two straight runs of about 25'. Already replaced the stern sections with 1" tubing to support solar panels. My thinking was that the oversized wire probably significantly exceeds the original 3/16 even though it is old. Problems with wire is usually concentrated at the fittings, unless it has been damaged. All that said, I'll probably go with new 1/4 inch. Not that expensive and will be nicer to hold and lean on than the smaller stuff. Maybe I'll use the old stuff for the railing on my decks. Not quite the same forces. We live a sedate life here in the Northwest.

Let me know if you have any other thoughts. Thanks.

 

[Touchrain]

Addendum: discussion on 1x19 was from the US sailing safety study on lifelines. It is what they used in tests. May not definatively be the best. See the study at: http://www.ussailing.org/safety/Studies/lifeline_study.htm

Interesting point was that the wire isn't the part that usually fails, unless it is really bad.

Thanks also for the recommendation on the Johnson approach. I guess I've just been to cheap to buy the tool that goes along with it. May need to rethink.

 

[stillwater]

Spectra for lifelines

Try Amsteel (Spectra) for lifelines. Cheap, easy to splice, stronger than wire, soft on the hands.

Dal

 

[Touchrain]

Anyone know how UV resistant that is? I am headed for the tropics for a year starting in August. Thanks.

 

[stillwater]

From Cruisers forum about lifelines

Dyneema® fiber approved by ISAF council for use in sailing lifelines

Urmond,NL,07-Dec-2009


Dyneema® fiber allows for greater safety and improves performance compared to traditional steel wire

During the annual ISAF (International Sailing Federation) conference in Busan, Korea, Dyneema® fiber was approved by the ISAF council to be used as a material for sailing lifelines, meeting rigorous standards yet increasing safety performance. The light weight and stronger lifelines with Dyneema® fiber are a technical advancement in <NOBR style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: darkgreen; FONT-SIZE: 100%; FONT-WEIGHT: normal" id=itxt_nobr_13_0>yachting </NOBR> world. The recent ISAF approval merely expands the permitted use of Dyneema® fiber in all other races and classes. Its use in the Melges 24 and Melges 32 classes for the past few years have already proven its effectiveness in these highly-competitive classes. Dyneema® fiber contributes to lighter, stronger and safer lifelines which are an important safety and performance feature on offshore and inshore sailing boats.

Bruno Finzi, Chairman of ORC (Offshore Racing <NOBR style="FONT-FAMILY: inherit; COLOR: darkgreen; FONT-SIZE: 100%; FONT-WEIGHT: normal" id=itxt_nobr_14_0>Congress </NOBR>) and a member of the ISAF Committee, said: “I am happy to help in getting this measure passed. The ORC supports any such technical innovation that improves offshore sailing in both performance and safety.”

Marc Guillemot, skipper of the Safran race boat during the recent Vendée Globe race, said: “We used the lifelines during the last Vendée Globe for 25,000 miles. Lifelines made with Dyneema® fiber were very light and strong and their performance lasted in time.”

the link for the press release.
DSM Dyneema - Press Release - Dyneema® fiber approved by ISAF council for use in sailing lifelines

Brion Toss <A id=link_1 href="http://www.briontoss.com/" target=_blank>Brion Toss Yacht Riggers, Sailboat Rigging</A itxtvisited="1"> recently told me he will not <A id=link_3 href="http://www.sailnet.com/forums/autolink.php?id=28&script=showthread&forumid=4" target=_blank>rig</A itxtvisited="1"> wire life lines anymore. If someone insists on wire, he sends them to another rigger. Mentioned something along the line of "wire can hide problems, rope shows any and all signs of wear"

I highlighted what the (very conservative) rules committee concurred about Dyneema Life lines. I know it seems hard to believe, but rope is safer than wire. A 1/4" wire is half (at the most) as strong as the same size Dyneema rope.
It never has been this way in our life, and that is why it seems so ass-backwards to say so.....But when you can do things with fiber, that always took steel to do the job before, things really get interesting and oh by the way........ WIRE IS DEAD...

 

[stbdtack]

Dyneema Lifelines

My Dyneema life lines are 5 years old now and still look fine. No UV degradation visible. Very easy to splice and Johnson makes turnbuckle ends and gate fittings with loops for just this application. I carry some extra and can easily make replacements if needed with out the need for swaging tools. Where the jib and sheets contact the lifelines I added Polyethelene split wire covers to reduce wear (cheap at westmarine) Would never use wire again....

 

[Earwax]

Dyneema Lifelines

Ben, what size/type Dyneema did you use for your lifelines? I am about due to replace my wire lifelines and would like to do this all myself. Where did you buy your Johnson turnbuckels, etc?

Thanks!

 

[stbdtack]

Dave, I think it was 1/4" Amsteel in silver/gray. This was the largest that will fit through the hole in the stanchions. The stuff looks bigger than 1/4". The fittings are available at West or prob other places cheaper...

www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/store...toreNum=10102&subdeptNum=10206&classNum=10208

Make sure you learn how to do a locking single braid splice. Its really easy and cant let go. I preloaded/stretched all my splices using the primary winch. And the 1/4" has an 8400lb break strength. Even if its strength is degraded by 1/2 its not going to give up under normal use....

 

[Earwax]

Off to the store!

Ben, thanks for the info! I'll make sure I get enough to take a couple of practice runs. It has been a few years since I used to make splices for tow ropes for towing sailplanes (gliders). I just hope I can reuse some of the old hardware somehow...those things are expensive! (I've got a wedding to pay for next month)