Roller Furling line load

[patrscoe]

In 2019, purchased a new Profurl 320 roller furling. I typically use a 125% headsail in the spring and fall, and due to the lighter winds on the Chesapeake Bay, I change out to a 150% in the summer. I am using a 5/16" Sta-set line on my furling with a few extra feet in the drum so that I can wrap my sheets a few turns on my headsail. I am finding that the required amount of line needed for the 150%, ends up jamming the drum. The Profurl 320 is properly sized for my E34-2. I adjusted the angle of approach of the line to the drum, which helped some but does not resolve the 150% headsail,

Only a few times under urgent situations due to a storm that came in and high winds, I typically would not consider using a winch on my furling, as I don't want to damage my forestay and furling assembly. Profurl has a line range from 1/4" to 5/16'. I don't want to use all 1/4" line, as it would be difficult to handle.
Sta-set 1/4" line has a breaking load of +/-2,300 lbs and I would assume that this would be strong enough, correct?
If so, my solution would be to splice the 5/16" to the 1/4' line so that the 1/4" line will be reeled in the drum but the 5/16" would be outside the drum and be slightly easier to handle.
Any thoughts on this concept?
I was thinking of using 1/4" Dyneema for the drum side of the line but I think that might be overkill. Standard stanchion fairleads for the furling line are rated under 1,000 lbs.

 

[Dave G.]

I have no factual data but I don't think the furler line should/would ever approach 2300lbs and if it did something is horribly wrong. I have used a winch on occasion reefing the headsail when single handing but even then there isn't a lot of load even under sail, its just easier to fine tune with the winch.

 

[jtsai]

Do you maintain tension on the business side of the genoa sheet when unfurling so the furling line is coiled orderly?

 

[Christian Williams]

Splice idea sounds good me.

The forces on a furler line are not great, and we should be able to roll in a luffing headsail hand over hand under any conditions. The winch prohibition just means furlers aren't designed for trimming with mechanical advantage, the way sail controls are. I think winching is OK as long it doesn't create more force than a 28 year old gung-ho crew could apply hand over hand. And of course, heroically winching a foul on a stanchion can pull the stanchion out, so, uh, yeah. Hand over hand is recommended. And what Jeff T. just said.

 

[K2MSmith]

I have a ProFurl LCI 32 on my boat (it’ probably about 12 years old). I use 105 jib but while I was waiting for my new sail to be made I had a 130 genoa on it that I used on it partially furled as a temporary solution. I‘m using 5/16th sta-set line. I have not had any issues with it other than the force to furl a lightly loaded sail (and my boat has a fractional rig) seem to be higher than other furlers I’ve used and I’ve checked the line/pulleys for friction.. I’m not sure it it might be undersized for this particular application, but it has worked reliably and I’ve never had it jam so far.

 

[patrscoe]

I read through the online manual yesterday and notes that the 320 has a max line length for 5/16" at 7m, which is about 23' My 150% has a +/-23' foot and I have approximately 26' of line on my drum. My 125 has a +/-18' foot. So using 5/16" and shortening up the line would work for the use of anything from a #3 to #2 headsail.
I debated to upsize the Profurl to a 350, which seems to hold more line in the drum but per documentation, the 320 seemed fine, I guess I didn't think about the effect of using a #1 headsail and the extra line that was needed.

I am going to splice (tapered) 1/4' Dyneema line that will role up in the drum to a 5/16" (or 3/8") double braid line for handling. The Dyneema will slightly flatten out within the drum and also should provide less friction through the fairleads. Hopefully it will last and is efficient to use.

 

[paul culver]

The hauling resistance on my furling line changes quite a bit with adjustments to the headsail halyard tension. Have you messed with this yet?

 

[G Kiba]

Jib halyard tension and Backstay tension (if you have a bendy mast) affect my furler. That and the odd spin halyard that sometimes get tangled forward after dropping the kite and rolling up at the end of the day.

 

[patrscoe]

I leave good amount of tension on my jib halyard.
More I look at the data, furling manual and pictures from this past year, more I am sure that I have too much line on the drum to accommodate the 150%. Also, even with tension on the roll up, any little twist in the furling line, gets overlapped in the furling and adds to the problem. Hindsight, I should have went with one size larger furling than recommended when I purchased the roller furling in 2019.

 

[Christian Williams]

When issues arise, we can look at the angle between the furler drum and the lead block, and also the position of the block. Often both are compromises given limited deck space, and may have been slightly wrong for years. The lead block feeds the furl, and needs to be studied with the drum empty as well as full of line, because the angle changes as line builds up.

I altered the location of the lead block after a furler line break of brand-new line and no apparent cause. Access for bolts was difficult so I just screwed the new $90 roller-bearing stand-up lead block to the deck near a stanchion, where Ericson put plywood under the skin. (The old one was screwed in by the factory).

Furling jibs are critical and worth some attention. If they break or jam while sailing it's a problem.

 

[kiwisailor]

When I had my 150 genoa on my E38 I had a similar issue with my 3/8" furling line jamming up on the drum. I ultimately decored the first 8ft or so of the furling line, so the first 10 turns on the drum were decored.

The following links talk about it.

https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/roller-furler-line.3402/post-18988

https://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f116/decoring-furling-line-144750.html

 

[paul culver]

I leave good amount of tension on my jib halyard

That's when I have problems that easing off on tension improves.

 

[Christian Williams]

My sailmaker discourages much tension on a roller furler luff. They're not designed for changing the draft by cunningham force. Just get the wrinkles out.

 

[Butch Bogan]

I'm a rigger, not a sailmaker, but a 150 on a furler is trouble waiting to happen. The issue of getting more line on the drum is easily solved by many of the solutions previously brought up. My personal preferred method is to strip the core from a high-modulus covered line, such as Marlow MGP for the first 3-4 wraps on the drum. The load placed on the furling line should not exceed a couple of hundred pounds at most.

The problem of having too big a sail on a furler is not only poor sail shape after about a 10-15% reef, but the strain you're putting on all the joints of the furler extrusions and the torque tube. When a sail is wrapped around the foils, some of the load is taken up by the fabric of the sail, but not nearly all of it, and the joints flex at the connectors. When the sail is fully deployed the halyard tension on the luff tape, and wind load, help to keep the foils in line. As soon as you put a wrap on the furler the entire column is now loaded differently, causing the joints to take a side load, this is one of the reasons Harken has re-designed their connectors so many times. The draft on a large headsail is also further aft, also causing more bend in in the foils. Unlike a hanked on sail, applying more halyard tension doesn't relieve much load from the stay and the foils will always take a significant portion. Tightening the backstay helps the connectors "float" around the stay by eliminating some of the bend, but not all.

I'll leave this open for all of the comments

 

[patrscoe]

Conclusion on my furling line problem:

The approach angle to the furling drum was not 90 degrees. It would reel up the line and about half full, the line would start to cross and eventually bunch up when I was towards the end. Fairly easy fix by adding another lead block on my bow pulpit and some fine tuning and adjustments.

I notice this problem when I was re-rigging my new furling line. I changed out my 5/16" line and splice a end-to-end 3/8" double braided line with a 3/16" Dyneema line.
The Dyneema line length is 24', reels almost all the way into the drum. The Dyneema seems to lay better within the drum than a double braided line.
Although I have not sailed with the new furling line, I can say that it moves so much better in the drum and through my leads, the 3/8" is a huge difference on your hands than a 5/16" line and in the end, my line is now stronger as the 3/16" Dyneema is about the same strength as my 3/8" line is stronger than my 5/16" line.