Seized bolt on Atomic 4

[Jarod]

Hello,

Well i tackled the fuel tank installation this afternoon and of course it wasnt as easy as i thought it would be and in the process another issue has arisen with this neglected 32 yr old E27. I pulled the waterlift muffler to give myself more room to install the fuel tank (planned to reposition later), but when removing i noted that the exhaust had come loose from the coupling at the manifold...the exhaust coupling was so corroded that when i exerted a bit of pressure to release the muffler from the exhaust .....the corroded threads in the coupling just broke out....so now i have a coupling on the motor with no threads and no way to reattach the exhaust...the exhaust coupling is held in place by two bolts which i fear i may break off if i try to remove them but at this juncture I suppose i have no choice but to try....i really do not want to remove the manifold for fear of what I may encounter there...but it may be neccessary if i cant remove the boltss......i guess what iam seeking is suggestions on how to remove really badly corroded bolts without breaking them off..will a torch help? i have already sprayed with wd40 and will let soak tonight

thanks jarod

 

[Jarod]

oh and wrong terminology the part is an exhaust flange and it is where the exhaust bolts up to the manifold

 

[Emerald]

Hi Jarod,

be careful with these, they are a royal pain to get out when sheared off - speaking from experience here.

Try heat, and also, if you can swing the hammer, give it a sharp hard blow right on the head of the bolt. This will often break frozen stuff free. WD-40 works OK on freeing rusted stuff, but you might also want to check out some PBR Blaster or Kroil (if you can find it).

As always, be very careful with a torch working around the engine. Run your blowers etc. to make sure you don't have any fumes in the bilge.

Also, don't forget on something like this, it might hit a point where it's better to remove the manifold and work on it on the bench than with no room on the engine in the boat. I've found it's sometimes faster overall to pull the offending part if you have no access to work on it. If you do go to pull it, do make sure you have the room to pull it off the studs before you loosen the bolts - just can't remember spacing on the E-27 that well.

One more thoght. If the bolt shears, do not use an EZ Out or I almost can guarantee you'll be drilling it out along with the bolt - yuck! If it shears, I'd really recommend pulling the manifold and drilling out the old one on the bench. If careful (start with small bits), and using cutting fluid, you actually have a chance of drilling out the old and leaving threads you can reuse, and there is enough material that in a worst case scenario you could tap out one bolt size larger.

Good luck!

-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[jkm]

You can get into a real mess very quickly.

I would suggest that you remove and bring home the manifold.

Take it to a head shop and ask them to resolve the issue. Once you start drilling and breaking bits you're totally ******.

Be smart and don't go where you've never been. I play around with old motors all the time and I've learned to use my drill press as a table. Seriously if you can take it to a head shop your life will be better.

John

 

[Jarod]

Hi David,

oh well its done now i went over this morning tried heat smacked it with a hammer but it is now broken off in the manifold i just put too much pressure on it i guess...but i dont think it was goin to come out regardless...iam thinking the safe option would be to take it to a machine shop now to get it out...as they do this sort of thing all the time...i have the manifold off now and all of the mating surfaces look in relatively good shape...a nice surprise.

 

[Emerald]

Hi Jarod,


I cringed when I read it broke on you. I've honestly never had them break with the hammer hit, it's been when putting too much torque on with the wrench. Very sorry about this.

OK, as pointed out, if this is new to you, do the machine shop thing, which it sounds like you are heading for anyway. It will hopefully be cheaper than you expect, and you'll be assured of a good result.

Chalk this one up to the Oh @#$! catagory, and as you do more, it'll hopefull help with strategy on other stuff.


-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[jkm]

I can't count the number of times I've heard that.

 

[Emerald]

It's really hard, because you want to help, but there are so many variables, and unless you can see it hands on, it's really hard to say the course of action. I'm distressed that the bolt broke so easily on Jarod. I've used the method of a sharp blow to free frozen fasteners for years, and have friends who live and breath this daily in the machine/automotive business who do like wise, yet invariably, we have the scenario where it all goes wrong. So, where does it leave you? Hopefully the person with the hands on experience will remember something for the future from the past based on some level of learning or gut feel - and it's amazing how much ends up being intuition based on a visual, or a sound etc., from experience.

The up side on this is that it is recoverable, and if the fasteners and exhaust pieces were at this point, it is good to have discovered this under a controlled scenario versus a failure at sea. That's not to be a cop out, but really, if the exhaust broke off the manifold, and then the fasteners failed with a sharp rap, this was a failure waiting to happen.

-David
Independence 31
Emerald

 

[Jarod]

hi david,

actually it wasnt the sharp rap that broke it or at least i dont think that was it...i tried the smack with the hammer to loosen but to no avail...so i figured what the heck and i went for broke with the socket (no pun intended) ....applied some pressure and it broke off....i agree it is better that it happened in the marina...i would think a good machinist can get it out .... I would try but I do not have the right equipment.....if it doesnt come out it can more than likely be drilled out and I can have the hole re-threaded a size larger....so really just out a few bucks and I will have to reinstall the manifold, which shouldnt take too long...by the way does any one know a good machinist in vancouver, bc???


I tell ya if i didnt look at the brightside with this old boat I would have jumped off a bridge somewhere long ago hahaha

thanks jarod

 

[Bob in Va]

Freeing frozen bolts/studs

I have found that in these situations patience is the most important factor, and sometimes even that is not enough. Heating the area immediately around the frozen bolt, then popping it with a hammer (not TOO hard), then spraying some PB Blaster will sometimes allow penetration to some of the threads. If it is a bolt, repeated left/right tweaks, not strong enough to deform the shaft but just enough to create a little play in the joint will sometimes work. This is where the patience comes in - you have to be willing to do this for 5 or even 10 minutes sometimes, back and forth, spraying penetrant on it, repeating the cycles what seems like an endless number of times. I've had good luck doing this in the past and just a couple of nights ago was able to remove a wrung-off stud this way. On studs, it really helps to grind two flats on opposite sides, then grab it with vise-grips set just as tight as you can and again work it back and forth repeatedly, just short of twisting the shaft. Generally, if you just try to grab the round shoulder with vise-grips, they will slip and abrade the metal, but if you grind flats they can't slip or spin. Also, remove any accessories or gear that is in the way at all - this is well worth the time it takes. Occasionally you can grind a slot and impact the stud to start it backing out, but usually with frozen, rusted parts the impact will twist and wring the shaft instead. For me the back and forth motion, sometimes with someone else rapping it with a hammer, works best.

 

[jkm]

Good thread and a problem we have all dealt with from time to time.

In the 20 years I've been restoring vintage cars I've tried most everthing to remove studs/bolts.

Many a time we've sat back and started to drink after damaging another part of the project while forcing out relunctant studs.

Now in my old age I simply have the offender removed to the machinist and let them fix it.

There is never any substitute for an expert and another cold one to celebrate.

Kudos for trying and they'll get the remains of the bolt out and you'll be ready to go. Don't forget to check the torque on the head bolts (30-35lbs-I think)

John

 

[rwthomas1]

The machine shop is your best bet. They will get it out and if neccessary to use a specific thread size a HeliCoil insert can be used to restore the threads. I have used them for years and with care they are pretty durable.

This product is a little late but I have found no other penetrating oil to come close to Kroil https://secure.cnchost.com/kanolabs.com/kanopnlu.htm#anchor173855
http://www.kanolaboratories.com/
It has loosened stuff that I was sure was going to break or be a lost cause. I have no financial interests in the company, the product just works exceptionally well. RT