windjunkee
Member III
Mark,
She's a beauty. How much of a PHRF rating hit did you take with the sprit addition?
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
She's a beauty. How much of a PHRF rating hit did you take with the sprit addition?
Jim McCone
Voice of Reason E-32-2 Hull #134
Awesome!!!
Just what the doctor ordered!!! Nice sail trim as well!!
How many degrees aft can you articulate the sprit?
The kite looks a bit small (but I can't really tell); is it "full size" meaning the Midgirth (SMW or SMG) based on 1.8 X J (without the sprit) or 1.8 X J (with the sprit-in which case I would bet you had a rating hit)?
If you ordered a "cruising spinnaker" with sock (I see that!
), it might less than the maximum 1.8 X J without the sprit...Does this make sense?
The point I am getting at is for those who may want to do the same, very smart, move as you did, it is worth taking the time to analyze the impact of these dimensions on speed vs. rating.
Either way, looks very sharp-and don't be shy about easing that tack line in light airs--for close reaches (as in the first shot) if the breeze is under about 6 knots, I would ease off about 10-12", adding as the breeze builds. This is essentially the same theory I have discussed about trying to get the Headstay to sag off as much you can for upwind light air sailing-makes for a rounder entry, deeper sail (this increases the delta in wind speeds between the windward and leeward side of the sail, thereby increasing the pressure differential and increasing lift), which produces more speed (and yes, more drag, but in these conditions you get more speed than drag)!!
When sailing deeper, ease the tack off progressively, so that when you have the sprit swung back and have enough breeze to sail deep, you might want to ease as much as 24-30" on the tack line. This will enable the sail to "rotate" out to windward and be more "in front" of the boat.
Check out some pics of J105 or Melges 24's-you will notice the deeper they are sailing, the more tackline is eased.
Thanks for the great pics!!
Seth
Just what the doctor ordered!!! Nice sail trim as well!!
How many degrees aft can you articulate the sprit?
The kite looks a bit small (but I can't really tell); is it "full size" meaning the Midgirth (SMW or SMG) based on 1.8 X J (without the sprit) or 1.8 X J (with the sprit-in which case I would bet you had a rating hit)?
If you ordered a "cruising spinnaker" with sock (I see that!
), it might less than the maximum 1.8 X J without the sprit...Does this make sense?The point I am getting at is for those who may want to do the same, very smart, move as you did, it is worth taking the time to analyze the impact of these dimensions on speed vs. rating.
Either way, looks very sharp-and don't be shy about easing that tack line in light airs--for close reaches (as in the first shot) if the breeze is under about 6 knots, I would ease off about 10-12", adding as the breeze builds. This is essentially the same theory I have discussed about trying to get the Headstay to sag off as much you can for upwind light air sailing-makes for a rounder entry, deeper sail (this increases the delta in wind speeds between the windward and leeward side of the sail, thereby increasing the pressure differential and increasing lift), which produces more speed (and yes, more drag, but in these conditions you get more speed than drag)!!
When sailing deeper, ease the tack off progressively, so that when you have the sprit swung back and have enough breeze to sail deep, you might want to ease as much as 24-30" on the tack line. This will enable the sail to "rotate" out to windward and be more "in front" of the boat.
Check out some pics of J105 or Melges 24's-you will notice the deeper they are sailing, the more tackline is eased.
Thanks for the great pics!!
Seth
Thanks. The gennaker is a Gleason Sails, sail. It came off of a Catalina 22 Tall Rig. I bought it used (used twice) with the sock (Chutescoop) for $400 about a year and a half ago. It does seem to be fairly narrow shouldered but it does rotate to weather nicely when the tack line and sheet are eased. The sprit will rotate maybe 20 deg. (see photo). To change rotation from port to starboard I will have to remove the pole and reset. From centered to either port or starboard (depending which side it is set on initially) I just have to move the aft end of the pole. I have no idea what kind of PHRF rating hit I would take. I never seriously race Coaster, other than if there is another sailboat within ½ mile going generally in the same direction! I (race) crew for fun on a Catalina 30 and for blood on a Santa Cruz 27 (we won last years Windjammers in our class on the SC27). So I get to tinker with Coaster and not worry about the rating stuff.
Attachments
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sprit top centeredsm.JPG -
sprit top offset sm.JPG
More fun anyway, right?
You got it under control-for sure.
For what it is worth, the Cat 22 TR has a J of 8' and you should have a J of 8.75, so a full size kite for the Cat 22 would be 1.35' smaller on the girth than one for the E-boat. Bottom line: Even though you are not racing ths boat, if you WERE, you would not have any hit at all in PHRF, since the sail is well undersized.
And for those who are interested, as long as the sail is built to the boats' actual J (no long pole or sprit taken into account) and the girth does not exceed 1.8 X that dimension, most PHRF regions will not ding the rating.
Capisce?
S
You got it under control-for sure.
For what it is worth, the Cat 22 TR has a J of 8' and you should have a J of 8.75, so a full size kite for the Cat 22 would be 1.35' smaller on the girth than one for the E-boat. Bottom line: Even though you are not racing ths boat, if you WERE, you would not have any hit at all in PHRF, since the sail is well undersized.
And for those who are interested, as long as the sail is built to the boats' actual J (no long pole or sprit taken into account) and the girth does not exceed 1.8 X that dimension, most PHRF regions will not ding the rating.
Capisce?
S
Sprits
The real issue is sail area. It is very unlikely you would get a hit for a pole by itself.
The J dimension is from the front of the mast to the stem fitting at the bow.
On most boats, the pole is sized to match the J, and the maximum size (without a penalty) for a kite is 1.8 X J. But technically(according to all of the handicap rules), spinnakers are actually sized to the pole length (Jc or SPL), so if the pole is the same as J, it is a moot point.
This means if you have a J of say 10' and the pole is 10', your max kite size is 1.8 X 10' or 18'. If you have a 3 foot sprit, your J is still 10', but your Jc is 13', and with that pole, your kite can be 1.8 x 13', or 23.4'. You will get hit for the pole AND larger kite. BTW-you genoas are still sized to J-so your max LP (at 155%) would be 15.5'.
If you just add the sprit, but keep using the spinnaker that was sized to the normal J, you should not get any hit-does this make any sense?
S
The real issue is sail area. It is very unlikely you would get a hit for a pole by itself.
The J dimension is from the front of the mast to the stem fitting at the bow.
On most boats, the pole is sized to match the J, and the maximum size (without a penalty) for a kite is 1.8 X J. But technically(according to all of the handicap rules), spinnakers are actually sized to the pole length (Jc or SPL), so if the pole is the same as J, it is a moot point.
This means if you have a J of say 10' and the pole is 10', your max kite size is 1.8 X 10' or 18'. If you have a 3 foot sprit, your J is still 10', but your Jc is 13', and with that pole, your kite can be 1.8 x 13', or 23.4'. You will get hit for the pole AND larger kite. BTW-you genoas are still sized to J-so your max LP (at 155%) would be 15.5'.
If you just add the sprit, but keep using the spinnaker that was sized to the normal J, you should not get any hit-does this make any sense?
S
therapidone
Member III
This semi-articulating, stowable sprit is very interesting. Did you document the work that you did to install it? If so, is there a link to follow? What sort of hardware did you use--especially the items at the deck level of the headstay through which the sprit is placed?
Regards,
Ed
Regards,
Ed
Hi Ed,
Here is a shot of the hardware at the bow. I had the stainless made up by a fabricating shop then added the PVC liner and nylon spacers. Originally I was not going to use a bobstay but I chickened out and added some Dyneema. Also when I added the bobstay the forces changed and I was getting pressure pushing aft, this meant I had to change the U bolts I was using for the rear sprit fitting. I now have a spinnaker pole deck chock for the aft pole fitting.
The biggest change in the design is the addition of a furler to the bowsprit. I had seen this http://www.rollgen.com/ at the last two boat shows I had been to and was really intrigued. But the $1500 + price tag was a bit more than my 1968 Ericson 23 could justify! What’s unique about this design is that you fly the asymmetrical normally, with a free flying luff. I just could not get it out of my head so I dug through my miscellaneous sailing paraphernalia to come up with a slightly different design.
I’ve gotten some sailing time in with this system and I’m very pleased with the results. I can singlehand in 15+ mph winds fairly comfortably and better yet my Wife is OK with me flying the spinnaker with her aboard now. I thought the dousing sock was going to be the ticket to singlehanding with the asymmetrical but soon realized that I had to drop the sock and gather it up after every dousing which meant getting up on the deck anyway (which is what I was trying to avoid). Now I can set the bowsprit and furled asymmetrical at the dock and leave it up all day, making multiple sets and douses without stowing the sail. The other photos are the bowsprit/whisker pole with the furler on it.
Mark
Here is a shot of the hardware at the bow. I had the stainless made up by a fabricating shop then added the PVC liner and nylon spacers. Originally I was not going to use a bobstay but I chickened out and added some Dyneema. Also when I added the bobstay the forces changed and I was getting pressure pushing aft, this meant I had to change the U bolts I was using for the rear sprit fitting. I now have a spinnaker pole deck chock for the aft pole fitting.
The biggest change in the design is the addition of a furler to the bowsprit. I had seen this http://www.rollgen.com/ at the last two boat shows I had been to and was really intrigued. But the $1500 + price tag was a bit more than my 1968 Ericson 23 could justify! What’s unique about this design is that you fly the asymmetrical normally, with a free flying luff. I just could not get it out of my head so I dug through my miscellaneous sailing paraphernalia to come up with a slightly different design.
I’ve gotten some sailing time in with this system and I’m very pleased with the results. I can singlehand in 15+ mph winds fairly comfortably and better yet my Wife is OK with me flying the spinnaker with her aboard now. I thought the dousing sock was going to be the ticket to singlehanding with the asymmetrical but soon realized that I had to drop the sock and gather it up after every dousing which meant getting up on the deck anyway (which is what I was trying to avoid). Now I can set the bowsprit and furled asymmetrical at the dock and leave it up all day, making multiple sets and douses without stowing the sail. The other photos are the bowsprit/whisker pole with the furler on it.
Mark
Attachments
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spritbowhardwaresm.JPG -
spritfurlsm.JPG -
spritbobstaysm.JPG
therapidone
Member III
Thanks for posting the pics!
Greetings Mark,
Thanks for posting the pics of the hardware! However, any thoughts I might have had about duplicating your work went by the board when I saw you did add the furler for the asymm! Nice work, though...I'll bet you love it!
Nice pics, too.
Regards,
Ed
Greetings Mark,
Thanks for posting the pics of the hardware! However, any thoughts I might have had about duplicating your work went by the board when I saw you did add the furler for the asymm! Nice work, though...I'll bet you love it!
Nice pics, too.Regards,
Ed
Nigel Barron
Notorious Iconoclast
If you are looking to duplicate, one option might be to contact some boat manufacturers for parts. I know that this sort of sprit is sold with the Dehler's and the Wauquiez's... Might help.