Tiller and outboard - which one controls ?

[Sven]

I posted this question in the alt.sailing forum as well, but I suspect that I'm more likely to get useful answers here, among other E23 owners.

We just took our brand new, old Ericson 23 out for a shakedown cruise ... very satisfying and promising.

The only part that threw me (apart from an outboard throttle handle that literally fell off in mid-channel !) was the problem of handling _both_ a tiller and the 5 hp Nissan outboard at the same time. I've done lots of sailing on dingies without outboards, on dingies where you removed the rudder when you used the ouboard, and on inboard-equipped boats much too large to use an outboard except as a possible emergeny get-me-home-bailout option. I've never befor tried to use both at once.

Suffice it to say that I felt less than competent as I tried to manage the tiller while at the same time holding the outboard throttle to both stear and control speed.

The throttle has a bunch of duct tape on it, probably to make up for a lacking setscrew so you can set and forget the speed setting ? What can I say, the motor is definitely used and I'm just impressed it runs reliably Once I dig through the duct tape, should I find such a setscrew or is there some other secret to holding the throttle setting in place ?

How about set and forget outboard direction ? I've had my life saved by an outboard that swung tight starboard once I was no longer holding on to the control, but in this case I'd really prefer to have the outboard just point straight ahead if that's what I set it to. Should I be able to adjust some friction clutch so the outboard doesn't turn once I let go of it ?

Ideally I'd like to have a removable linkeage between the tiller and the outboard so that the tiller would turn both the rudder and the outboard. Are there such linkeages available or would I have to create one ?

Are there remote, cockpit-mounted outboard speed controls for motors as small as this Nissan 5 hp ? I don't think there are any Ericson 23's with an inboard (where would you put it but having something like a Teleflex throttle-gear control in the tiny cockpit sure would help.

Insights and asnwers appreciated.

Thanks,




-Sven

 

[Morgan Stinemetz]

Sven,

Yes, there is a friction nut on the outboard to keep it from turning when you don't want it to. I have a Tohatsu 18, and that is made by Nissan--or the other way around--and it has a nut you can tighten down. Look for it. Cowl off.

My opinion is that, while a remote control for your engine is availabale, that would be about the last thing you'd want in the cockpit. I have never seen one on a sailboat. There are obvious reasons.

On my boat, a 27, I have the outboard on the centerline and sometimes push it over to starboard for tight left turns. Tight right doesn't work because the handle is in the way. Most of the time, however, the engine is straight, neither one side or tuther.

You probably need to learn how to back the boat with the outboard, too.

Best of luck,

Morgan Stinemetz

 

[Sven]

Originally posted by Morgan Stinemetz

...

My opinion is that, while a remote control for your engine is availabale, that would be about the last thing you'd want in the cockpit. I have never seen one on a sailboat. There are obvious reasons.

...

Thanks for the info.

I'm curious, other than space, why would you not want throttle and gear control in the cockpit as you would have for an inboard ?

Having to let go of the tiller to reach back over the stern to get to the gear shift lever or throttle when in tight quarters seems far from ideal.

Thanks again,



-Sven

 

[cruis-n]

The outboard will overpower the rudder

Some friends have a Catalina 25 with a outboard mounted on the transom. It was fixed in the 'straigh-ahead' orientation. They had remote engine controls mounted in the cockpit. The problem was that the engine would overpower the effects of the rudder. In reverse there was no controlling the direction the boat went, it always went in the direction the motor was pulling.

At the time, I was teaching at a sailing school so they asked if I could go out with them to try to figure out why they had so much trouble getting in and out of the slip. We went out into open water and figured out that no matter how fast (or slow) we were going in reverse, there was not enough water flowing over the rudder to counteract the effects of the motor. Even in forward the motor (in it's straight-ahead orientation) would overpower the rudder. We kind-of skidded sideways.

The other problem I noted with the cockpit mounted controls was that they were mounted near the cockpit sole. This meant that the helmsperson had to take their eyes off of the docking manouver to switch from forward to reverse at exactly the wrong time (usually just in time to hit the dock).

IMO if you mounted the controls where they could easily be reached, they would interfere with seating and would probably get hung up in a jib sheet and then you'd be up a creek (so to speak). As I recall, once you put in the remote controls, the controls on the engine were not operative. Guess it depends on the engine manufacturers design.

 

[Bob in Va]

outboard dilemma

Sven - First, you need to get the throttle operating properly, so that you can set it in any position and it will stay at that setting. If you are not mechanically inclined, find someone who knows that model - look around your marina for similar setups. Same for the motor's steering - it should have just enough friction to stay put once you set it, but swing fairly easily using the leverage of the throttle arm.
Assuming the above has been attended to, when manuvering in tight quarters, do so slowly. The 23 has a large rudder and will obey steering inputs as long as the boat is moving at all. One trick is to get the boat moving in gear, then shift to neutral. The boat will keep moving, but now it will tiller-steer much better because there is no turbulence over the rudder. I find the 23 will turn backing-up very nicely by using both the tiller and the motor to steer, but get the boat moving first - I back mine at least one-half its length out of the slip before giving it any steering input at all. When going forward, the boat will not want to steer using the tiller, from a dead stop, when the motor is first put in gear and revved. Part of that is due to turbulence, but most of it is caused by lack of speed - water must be moving over the control surface before the boat will turn. Get the boat moving first, even if it is just a little bit, then shift to neutral and see how well it steers with the tiller. I almost never use the motor to steer once I have backed the boat out of the slip. If yours is a centerboard model, make sure the board is down whenever you are in any sort of tight quarters - the board/keel gives it a fulcrum around which it can rotate. When you are more used to the boat, I think you will not want engine controls in the cockpit - they will be in the way, add more complication, weight, and cost, and necessitate drilling holes - never a good thing if it can be avoided. When I leave my slip, I adjust the throttle about three times after starting, once more when we pass the no-wake buoys, and don't touch it again until we are five miles away, at the yacht club where the race will be held. Then I get it up out of the water and wish we didn't have it on board.

 

[Sven]

Re: outboard dilemma

Originally posted by Bob in Va
Sven - First, you need to get the throttle operating properly, so that you can set it in any position and it will stay at that setting. If you are not mechanically inclined, find someone who knows that model - look around your marina for similar setups. Same for the motor's steering - it should have just enough friction to stay put once you set it, but swing fairly easily using the leverage of the throttle arm.
...

Agreed. I need to either reverse engineer the clutches (throttle and steering) to figure out where they are or find a manual. Then I have to fix it because it isn't really workable as is.

I think the reason why it is impossbly awkward to maneuver this setup in addition to the needed adjustments mentioned above) has to do with the engine being mounted on the wrong side. It is on an outboard bracket on the port side. With the motor to port of the rudder you have to be a contortionist to reach the gear lever with your left hand while holding the tiller with your right. The alternative is to reverse the hands and pretty much face aft, or let go of the tiller when grabbing the shift lever and vise versa.

I do have to admit that the E23 is incredibly nimble and responsive to both rudder and engine inputs. If it wasn't for the engine cotrol problems above it would have been a breeze to make the 90 degree turn in the 1.25-1.5 boatlength space between the facing slips. Despite the problems we did no-fender-touch egress and reentry on the shakedown micro-cruise.

The to-do list is growing but at a very acceptable rate. I think we'll really get a lot of fun out of this little pocket cruiser.

Tanks for the various inputs !




-Sven

 

[Bob in Va]

Another hand on the tiller

There are a number of products that allow the tiller to be locked down and/or released easily. However, my favorite is home-made: drill a 1/4" hole horizontally through the end of the tiller and run a loop of heavy twine through it and tie it off. Hook one end of a bungee cord to the loop and the other end to the traveler track or the mainsheet shackle. (The former is better because then you have infinite adjustment in either direction.) Now you can take your hand off the tiller when necessary - depending on the length and stretch of the bungee the tiller will stay approximately centered. Great for minding the steering while messing around with the outboard. When under power, most skippers, being right handed, tend to sit on the port side and steer with their right hands. The motor is easier to reach when mounted on that same side.