to remove or not to remove, that is the question...

[Andrew Means]

So my handrails haven't been varnished in 5+ years and the time has come to get these suckers looking as good as the companionway hatch and salon hatches other bits I've managed to refinish this winter. I had originally planned on waiting till summer to varnish them, but varnishing them on the boat means 4-5 sunny/nice days spent sanding and varnishing that we *could* be out sailing. I wonder if maybe I should pull them, strip them, put all but the last coat of varnish on, and then reinstall them while it's still crummy out, and then when it gets nice put the last coat on (to cover over the plugs).

Is this a good idea? Am I just asking for a huge pain in the ass with the plugs and stuff?

 

[exoduse35]

If they are not leaking leave them on! removing them is asking for WAY more trouble than you could ever want! Edd

 

[Dave N]

go 4 it!

I'd remove and refinish them. We have sunbrella covers for ours, when the boat is un-attended, and they greatly reduce the amount of attention required. The bung thing sounds intimidating, but is quite simple and easy. Nothing to fear.

 

[Frank Langer]

I have regularly refinished ours on our E30+ without removing them, and wouldn't even consider removing them unless they leak and need re-bedding. In fact, I work carefully, and have gotten to the point where I don't use masking tape--just a light sanding, tack cloth, then varnish, then admire

Frank

 

[Andrew Means]

Hmm- so two very different opinions expressed here...

One thing is that we need to *completely* sand them down; and once they're totally sanded we'll need to do 4-6 coats on them; it just seems like an insane amount of time to be spending on varnishing when we could be out sailing. Also, with weather what it is in Seattle, we're likely looking at 4-6 coats spread out over multiple weeks...

If it was a case of just putting another coat on, obviously it wouldn't make sense to remove them, but because we're talking about a sizeable amount of time, I'm seriously considering popping them off...

 

[Frank Langer]

Popping them off means you also have to be confident that you can re-seal them properly, so you are not creating new leaks, and it takes more time.

I agree that you will likely want at least 3 - 4 coats (only the really anal people will put on 8 - 10 like the books suggest). On my boat (which everyone on the dock figures to be only a couple years old, not 1984, because of how good it looks!), I have sanded the handrails down completely (carefully, to not take off more teak than necessary) and added three new coats, all without removing the rails. The first coat took a little longer due to the sanding (sanding and varnish took maybe 2 hours), then a very light sanding with #220 grit paper and a recoat (about 45 minutes in total) and recoated like that twice more, only one coat per day. I chose days when I wanted to work on the boat anyway (oil change, wax, etc.) and did the varnish work early, then the other stuff, so the varnish was dry to touch before nightfall/dew risk. I add a new coat after a very light sanding at least annually, and sometimes twice a year just to protect the finish.

It's easy to do on the boat--my vote is to do it that way, but let us know what you decide and how it goes.

Frank

 

[Emerald]

I'll throw out a couple thoughts. First, how is your access to the nuts on the interior side? I'm assuming they are attached like the 31, where they are through bolted. If you can get to the nuts, make sure they all back off OK before committing to removal. Next, I've seen several cases now where handrails and other deck hardware were leaking, but it was not known until removing fasteners or until cutting into the deck for other reasons. Can you do a core sample from below? I hate to say it, but if they have never been off, there is a decent chance there is wet core, and then you have to decide what project are you really up for. So, I'd look at this as a combination of whether you can really get to and remove all fasteners, and what else are you getting into. I have made it a bit of religion to epoxy pot all holes when removing any hardware. So, if I were going to remove the handrails, at a minimum, I'd plan on over drilling the holes, filling them with thickened epoxy, and then re-drilling for the final size. I'd also be prepared to do some minor core repair. I got into this doing fasteners under my dodger a couple seasons ago. I ended up drilling out about a 2 inch hole under each fastener to get rid of wet balsa and replaced with new plywood core etc. This was easy, but an unplanned PITA because I unscrewed a fastener topsides, and it came out wet :0..... Let me know if you want me to post a couple pictures of what I ran into and the repair.

 

[Glyn Judson]

Removing hand rails if you can.

Andrew, To expand on what David just said, the handrails on many Ericson's were through bolted using 1/4-20 stainless screws into threaded aluminum plates and to get the screws out is nigh on impossible. I positively now that the single straight handrails on our former boat, a 1979 E25+ were attached that way. If yours are looped as are to ones in our E31's they are attached on the bottom with stainless steel washers and nuts. Those are simple to remove although, a very labor intense task given that a good part of the vinyl headliner has to be dropped to gain access to the underside. Check yours to be certain before diving in. Glyn Judson, E31 hull #55, Marina del Rey CA

 

[Tom Metzger]

I don't have a dog in this fight since I have an 80s vintage boat, but I wouldn't make a decision about pulling apart an E-27 until I heard from some E-27 owners. So far they all seem to be mum on this one.

FWIW, I pulled mine off, but the construction is completely different on the later models - big sheet metal screws into fiberglass lands.

 

[dt222]

Well on my '27, I believe that the topside hand rails are through bolted to cabin side hand rails in the main portion of the cabin, and then continue forward from there. I needed to do the same job last year, took a look at the bungs and both set of rails, and decided to varnish in place. As posrted earlier, I also waited for a warm day when the boat was still on the hard and covered, sanded, masked, varnished early in the day and over the course of a couple of weekends, got enough coats on to look good. I also have sunbrella covers for added protection. I wold only remove the rails as a very last resort, and wold fully expect that getting them back on would be a nightmare.

 

[Andrew Means]

I've got sunbrella covers too - right now they're staying on in an attempt to hide how bad the rails are!

 

[Brian K]

Free Opinions

I'd say every case is different, however I do maintain the very best way to re-finish any brightwork is to remove it from the boat. Yes is can become a major job,,, speaking from experience, but if you have to do a complete sand and refinish it's the best way. I removed my handrails (the straight version on my 1988 E-32-200) and even though they were screwed into the fiberglass through the handrail it was still a PITA. But I'm glad I did it that way. Going forward I just give the rails a very light sanding and add a coat of Cetol without removing. Good luck.

 

[bigd14]

E-27 here. I replaced the deck side handrails. It was difficult because I had to drill new holes to line up with the existing holes in the deck and the cabin side hand rails. But with existing handrails it should be much easier. The trick is getting the screws out because the nuts are embedded in the lower handrails. if these start spinning while still stuck to the bolt, you are in big trouble and will have to cut it off between the deck and the handrail, potentially damaging the deck side finish. That said, if its at all loose, I would remove it, core out any holes that have core (I don't think any of mine had core), countersink a bevel into them and bed them in butyl. Also beware that the inside liner has a gap between the liner and deck which needs to be compressed to tighten the handrails together. I had trouble with this and had to buy bolts extra long in order to get the nuts started. Then I whent he liner had compressed against the deck the bolts were too long and I had to break them off flush. However they are a little too long to be able to put a plug in them. So they are exposed on the inside. But that is the price I am willing to pay for a dry boat!

Good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

 

[seajunkie]

Heat Gun

I use a heat gun to strip, lightly sand, the varnish on the boat. I don't think that I could have made them look any better if I removed them first. Removing the vanish takes about an hour for each. I use a dull putty knife and a good heat gun. Light sanding takes 15 minutes and each coat takes 10 minutes each. Removing those things would be a lot of work for no gain unless, like others have said, the are leaking. We go sailing. Then when we get back I spend an hour or two tinkering with things like this.

 

[Andrew Means]

Thanks for everybody's replies - I think I'm going to keep them on. Since the bolts don't actually make it through to the interior I don't particually want to figure out how to remove and reinstall them; and I think my brightwork skills have improved enough to where I can just put coats on when I have the time. I have the luxury* of living a few blocks from my boat, so I can head down on weekdays and put a coat on or sand or what-have-you. I'll keep everybody posted of the progress!

* it's a double-edged sword, but I'm incredibly thankful to be so close to the boat, even when it means I spend too much time/money on it : )