Two-Speed Winches--Removal, Repair, Maintenance [Master Thread]

[Eddie 169]

I need to remove, repair or replace my Barient 27 two speed self tailing winch.
Not sure how to remove it. Does anybody know how to remove an 80s era Barient winch? Is there a special tool perhaps?

 

[HerbertFriedman]

Attached are infor about a Barient 19 two speed self tailing winch. I would assume the 19 and 27 models are basically similar. Hope this helps to take your apart.

 

[David Vaughn]

There is a “special” tool to remove the top cap, it’s called a pin spanner or pin wrench.
Harbor Freight and other tool sellers have them. Many are adjustable but measure the distance between the holes to make sure you get one that fits.
You can make do with a small screwdriver and a hammer but it’ll probably leave a mark(s).

 

[bigd14]

Get two Allen keys or bolts or something that fit the pin holes, insert them simultaneously and then use a screwdriver wedged between them to loosen.

 

[Christian Williams]

I don't know if the 27 is like the 28:

E381 - Full Maintenance, Barient 23ST and 28ST

Winch servicing, Barient winches, Christian Williams, Ericson Yachts

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Prairie Schooner]

Get two Allen keys or bolts or something that fit the pin holes, insert them simultaneously and then use a screwdriver wedged between them to loosen.

Another version of what Doug is describing:


Forgive me if this is insultingly basic, but if you need to take the whole winch off, there are through screws with nuts (and hopefully a backing plate) underneath. The heads are accessible when you take the drum and maybe some internals off. Boat yoga in the lazarette or q-berth will be in order if you need to do that. As well as freakishly long arms or a helper.

Also, Eddie, many of us have added to our signature line our boat model, year, engine make and model, maybe even a general location. I find I get more targeted answers to questions when folks have that readily available. In the darker blue band at top, Click on your avatar/screen name. In there is a link for signature input.

 

[JSM]

Spanner Wrench | West Marine

Check out our Spanner Wrench and more from West Marine!

www.westmarine.com

This one does the trick. Also works for the emergency tiller cover.

 

[Dave G.]

I need to remove, repair or replace my Barient 27 two speed self tailing winch.

5 machine screws with nuts underneath hold it on, removal mentioned above. You mention replace ? Are they damaged or ? If they haven't been cleaned and lubed in a long while I highly recommend removing them for thorough cleaning and greasing. Disassembling on the boat is a little riskier but doable. Also on a bench you can lay out the parts and that helps knowing how to put it all back together, for my old brain anyway. If you decide to do it while on the boat get a shallow box(4-5" high sides) cut a hole in the bottom equal to the size of winch base with the drum removed. Tape the box to the base so no parts can escape and to the coaming for stability. Disassemble and soak the parts & bearings in mineral spirit bath them brush clean with an old stiff toothbrush. Once cleaned use a brush to apply a very light coating of grease to all the moving parts(I use Super Lube with Teflon in a tube) and for the pawls use machine oil only. Reassemble and feel the smooth precision ! If not cleaned/lubed in recent history you will notice a significant operational improvement for your efforts ! Good luck !

 

[Eddie 169]

5 machine screws with nuts underneath hold it on, removal mentioned above. You mention replace ? Are they damaged or ? If they haven't been cleaned and lubed in a long while I highly recommend removing them for thorough cleaning and greasing. Disassembling on the boat is a little riskier but doable. Also on a bench you can lay out the parts and that helps knowing how to put it all back together, for my old brain anyway. If you decide to do it while on the boat get a shallow box(4-5" high sides) cut a hole in the bottom equal to the size of winch base with the drum removed. Tape the box to the base so no parts can escape and to the coaming for stability. Disassemble and soak the parts & bearings in mineral spirit bath them brush clean with an old stiff toothbrush. Once cleaned use a brush to apply a very light coating of grease to all the moving parts(I use Super Lube with Teflon in a tube) and for the pawls use machine oil only. Reassemble and feel the smooth precision ! If not cleaned/lubed in recent history you will notice a significant operational improvement for your efforts ! Good luck !

Thank you for the detailed information! Apologies for the late reply. The winch sounds dry and 'clangs a bit' when in use so I am planning to rebuild and lube. The winch seized when the self tailing top portion got bent and obstructed the drum turning. What happened was that I used the starboard winch for winching an line connected to the anchor chain, as a windlass jig. The boat does not have a windlass, so two hooks on a line, to be hooked on the anchor chain, reeled in, then hooked further up, with other end the line on a winch for mechanical advantage. My crewmate, who apparently was not winch savvy, was winching in while I was a the bow clipping the chain. My lack of detailed instruction to her, resulted in her continuing winching hard and crosswrapping the rope tightly, instead of allowing the line to exit the winch. This resulting in bending the top of the self tailing portion of the winch and seized it and it would not turn. I determined the top of the self tailing bar had been bent. I unbent it back to approximate original position with a rubber hammer and now it spins free. I was concerned it may be compromised and need replacement, but so far no problem. Unexpected series of unfortunate events!

 

[Prairie Schooner]

@Eddie 169
IIRC, some of the roller bearing cages in those are made of plastic. One of ours was broken and I ordered a replacement. Someplace in Australia if I can call on my leaky memory one more time. The cages are just for retention and spacing so I don't know how much difference a break makes. But, there's one more bit of info as you dig into the project.

 

[Dave G.]

My lack of detailed instruction to her, resulted in her continuing winching hard

Wow, the fact the the self tailer casting bent is baffling to me ? Did the line somehow get wedged between the winch and the arm causing a vertical force on the arm or ?

 

[Eddie 169]

Wow, the fact the the self tailer casting bent is baffling to me ? Did the line somehow get wedged between the winch and the arm causing a vertical force on the arm or ?

Yes, I do think that’s what happened because the line was completely wrapped tightly and continuing to wedge when she continued to winch with the handle. It was very difficult to remove all that line. It was so wedged.

 

[Dave G.]

Yes, I do think that’s what happened

Thought it had to be something like that. Under "normal" operation I could not fathom how you could bend anything no matter how much force a human could apply.

 

[Prairie Schooner]

@Eddie 169

Hi Eddie,

When I started our boat maintenance adventures I didn't realize there were rubrics for positioning the stripping ring / feeder arm. (For that matter, there's an optimum orientation of the internal gears.) Is it possible the stripping arm wasn't in the best place when this happened? In case this is also new to you, it is discussed in this thread:
- https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/self-tailing-winch-question.5862/

In Christian's thread about winch mounting he discusses orientation and there's a graphic with Ronstan advice on this that is at slight variance:
- https://ericsonyachts.org/ie/threads/lewmar-winch-orientation-issue.18205/



I don't understand the geometry of what happened at the winch in your anchor incident so none of this may apply. Strictly FWIW.

Sounds like that crew member was enthusiastic and strong. Don't get rid of her just for this!

Best,
Jeff

 

[Christian Williams]

Here are collected threads on winch maintenance to form a Master Thread.

Basically, if the winch doesn't click loud and enthusiastically, it is gummed up. We're supposed to clean and lube them annually.

E32-3 - Overdue Winch Service

Deck winches are easy to take for granted until, when trimming the big genoa in 20 knots, the drum loses its grip and you're holding a runaway winch handle by the tail. Possibly I am not the only one who put off the obvious and elementary task...

ericsonyachts.org

E32-200 - How to service a Lewmar winch

I recently serviced all of my winches and found the process to be straightforward and satisfying in a clean-and-tidy improvement sort of way. Most of the work consisted of cleaning the old gunk off of the winch parts. There is an abundance...

ericsonyachts.org

E381 - Full Maintenance, Barient 23ST and 28ST

Winch servicing, Barient winches, Christian Williams, Ericson Yachts

ericsonyachts.org

winch maintenance

I would appreciate input about how best to service my Barient self tailing winches, i.e disassembly, cleaning, and lubrication.

ericsonyachts.org

 

[Prairie Schooner]

I like to call myself a dedicated link aggregator, but truth be told, I'm a packrat. In addition to the great links Christian posted, these are a few others I have found helpful.

Self-Tailing Winch Jaws Adjustment

Older self-tailing winches often seem to lose their hold on the line, resulting in a return to the two-handed approach. Thanks to a Barient diagram provided by Bruce Gary in this thread, I was able to remove a spacer and return the jaws to a useful grip on the line. This is a Barient 23, and I...

ericsonyachts.org

Barient 27 winch, how clean is clean?

On our sail from Port Townsend to Everett, we had some issues with the winches. During the first tack, one of the winches reversed. Thankfully we didn't have the handle in and my wife's fingers were far enough away from the drum. Servicing the winches quickly moved up the priority list...

ericsonyachts.org

Winch Rebuild: "Barient" Replacement Pawls from Lewmar--just say NO!

I went to rebuild two of my '85 Barient winches (size 17-ST and 18). These things are built like tanks. The old grease inside was so dry I had to scrape it off with plastic blades. It reminded me of crayon wax. The old pawls weren't in too bad a shape, but one of the springs was jammed/bent from...

ericsonyachts.org

O34 - Winch Power

I was studying a nice Brion Toss article on winch sizing and efficiency. For years I have noticed that it's really hard to grind in any jib over about 100% on any of our boats. The problem is always worse (well duh) when we are nearing the top...

ericsonyachts.org

 

[peaman]

How should plastic bearings be lubricated? In the past I have put grease on the drum needle bearings on my Barient 24 primaries. Presently I am servicing them using Harken "High performance white winch grease" which says to use pawl oil instead of grease on "plastic roller or ball bearings" instead of grease. Any opinions welcome as to best lube for the main drum bearings.

 

[Christian Williams]

The standard wisdom is light coating of grease on the roller bearings, whether caged in plastic or not. When i received a new Lewamr winch a few years ago, it had a very (very) light coating of grease on the cages.

But the issue with winches is that grease gets gummed up, which apparently means it hardens by exposure to time, air, dirt, and the extreme high temperatures of a black aluminum winch in direct sunlight.

Oil may not last, of course. So I wonder what frequency of cleaning Harken recommends these days? Barient used to say twice a year, with grease, which of course was never going to happen.

[On re-reading your post, I dont think Harken is recommending oil for winches. Rather for plastic ball bearings, such as are found in roller furling.]

 

[Pete the Cat]

I have always used a coat of white marine lithium grease on everything except a very very thin coat around the pawls. I go through mine completely to iinspect and lube once every other season now that I am a mroe casual sailor. When I was cruising full time it was part of annual maintenance schedule. Cleaned everything in diesel in a coffee can. I found that some greases seem to age better than others, but none is perfect. I think the grease is mostly there to prevent corrosion (particularly of the inside of the winches with aluminum barrels and ss roller bearings) as much as to lubricate them for smoother operation--so I think coating carefully is important. Always good to carry some replacement pawls and springs on the heavily used winches in this process and put a towel around your work area--don't ask.