Winch Rebuild: "Barient" Replacement Pawls from Lewmar--just say NO!

[markvone]

Bruce,

I didn't see a winch inventory on their website. I would call and ask someone there if they have your winch of choice in-house, i.e. please go look for me. Also if they ship and how much.
I go by Bacon's on the way to my boat, so I stop in often. Their on-line inventory was always ridiculously out of sync with their website. Their lack of shop organization makes it all understandable. Just the way they roll.

Mark

 

[slipstreamer]

Do you recognize thsi winch? How to disassemble?

After a couple of weeks away from the boat, I have had a closer look at my Barient ST 2 speed winch. The Barient I have has no size markings and is definitely a max diameter of 5" and approx 6.5" tall. I have not found anything like it searching online and have - so far - reached the conclusion that it may be a rebuilt unit and non-standard. Here is the question: It has no split washer, nor a spin-off plate, nor a screw in the winch socket, nor a screw in the line feeder - how do I disassemble it??!
I have even tried taking the nuts off under the cabin top, but they are not on studs but screws (they rotate) so there must be a way to disassemble from the top. Does anyone recognise this winch and/or have recommendations how to remove and service? Thanks in advance!

 

[Christian Williams]

On some models there's a circlip at the arrowhead. Others have a nut in the base of the winch receiver.

I think you have a model in which the ST arm keeps it together unassisted.

Soak with PB Blaster and unscrew the ST arm (counterclockwise). It can be hard to remove. Whack with hammer, heat gun, the usual tricks.

 

[slipstreamer]

Thanks Christian. I was expecting to see a circlip too, but there is none. Likewise, no screw in the winch socket. It had not occurred to me that the ST arm itself may be the way in... I'll check that out when I am back at the boat later this week.

This winch is not to be refitted to the boat, so worst case is I will cut through the remaining nuts that keep the winch on the cabin top - being careful to catch them in a bowl before they burn through the headliner. That was another lesson I was happy to learn from you, Christian, rather than experience firsts hand!

Thanks again.

 

[bgary]

Some of the 80s-era Barients had a locking plate which required a special (Barient-supplied) wrench. Snip of disassembly instructions below.

*if* that is the case for your winch, here's a thread that talks about how to unscrew the plate without the Barient/Barlow tool:

http://www.catalina-capri-25s.org/forum/topic.asp?ARCHIVE=true&TOPIC_ID=12149

 

[bgary]

Afterthought: Is this little rectangular shape a machined notch, or just some sort of anomaly in the photo?



If the former, I'd try putting a small screwdriver blade into the notch and tapping the screwdriver shaft (counterclockwise). Just to see if that top plate moves.

I'd also look closely at the part of the main shaft above the top edge of that plate. If it is threaded, it means "something" needs to unscrew in order to release the drum.

 

[bgary]

Last afterthought (for now).

If you want to disassemble from below, you may be able to slide the blade of an oscillating tool between the nut and washer, and cut off the bolts.

You could also just split the nuts off. It won't be fun, but... it works.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/t...4281&msclkid=71aa994a9e561669c8acc38b82897dd8

Alternatively, if you have the room, you can cut a slot in the end of the bolt with a dremel cut-off wheel, then use a screwdriver (actually, a screwdriver bit held with vice-grips gives good leverage)to hold the bolt from rotating while you unscrew the nut. The screwdriver blade and shaft have to be smaller than the ID of the nut for this to work. Old trick, but may be worth a try if disassembly from above doesn't work out.

Bruce

 

[nquigley]

Barient ST 27 rebuild tips

Here is still more for anybody doing this for the first time:

http://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/entry.php?223-Overdue-Winch-Service

I did my Barient 27 ST primaries this weekend for the first time. I too couldn't find a You Tube video on this exact model, so Christian's blog and this thread were a great starting point - thanks, everyone!
I took cell phone photos after each step of the disassembly to help me put it back together later - turned out to be very helpful.
The first winch I did was almost bone-dry - certainly not caked with hardened grease. But the second has a bit of build-up. I de-greased with diesel, built didn't have time to soak overnight so still had to gouge out some hardened grease with a small flathead screwdriver, and I used small ss and brass brushes to finish off.

Three tips from what I learned:
(i) if there's old grease on the threads for the cap ring, you may need to gently pry the ST arm up
(ii) when you lift the drum off, the upper ss sleeve will either come up with the drum (careful not to let it drop overboard), but if it doesn't, it'll rest on the upper roller bearing race - it'll look like you have to put in that location when you're reassembling and ready to slide the drum over the central shaft. But, you don't (ask me how long it took me to work this out). You must drop that sleeve into the shaft at the very end, just before you put the ST arm back on
(iii) there is a bearing race inside the top of the central shaft - it's in there VERY tight. I recommend NOT trying to get it out. Instead, clean it with your solvent and brush, rinse it with clean solvent and blot it dry-ish with a shop towel, then lightly re-grease it in place. On the first winch I did, I drove this race out by hitting it from the bottom (inside) of the shaft using a large long flathead screwdriver and a hammer. It came out very reluctantly, and the driver made small dents in the end of the race. Also, it was almost as hard to get back in, even with light grease on it. The bodies of these races are plastic!

For each winch, it took me about 15 min to disassemble, about an hour to clean all the parts, and about 30 min to grease/oil the parts and to re-assemble it. If I re-do it annually, with my very light greasing/oiling, I'm sure the cleaning step will be quicker and will allow the whole job to be done in about an hour.

 

[markvone]

Where Bruce has circled it looks to me like the small curved notch on the end of a circlip. On my 23ST, down in the gap between the main shaft and the spines for the line stripper arm there was a circlip that releases the line stripper arm, jaws and drum.

On my 23ST there was also a big washer and another circlip on top of the line stripper that you don't have but it looks like I can see the outline of the washer. If you took the first circlip and big washer off already, you may be thinking you're done, but there is that second circlip.

Mark

 

[Tom Metzger]

It has no split washer, nor a spin-off plate, nor a screw in the winch socket, nor a screw in the line feeder - how do I disassemble it??!

Dumb Question: Do you know that it is a barient winch? Lewmar winches were also used by ERY. I have a sheet on a Lewmar winch that has no split ring or cap. You pull the drum by hitting the stripper arm with a wood block & hammer to unscrew it.

View attachment Lewmar 16ST,30ST 1.pdf

 

[slipstreamer]

@ Bruce and Mark: I spent some time running a point of an awl around that surface and it has no edges, grooves, notches etc. It actually seems to be the shoulder of the main pin through the winch. The area that Bruce highlighted (also Christian) is just old dirt :-( There is no locking plate either. Which brings me to...

@ Tom: The drum says Barient but has no size number. But, I have not found any record of a similar sized 2-speed ST winch and it could well be that this has been "customized" by some PO in the past... I think the suggestion by you and by Christian to give the ST stripper arm a good wack may be the best course.

If all else fails, I will revert to the isolating tool suggested by Bruce (with a headliner protector, per Christian!)

I'll get to the boat later this week and report back on my - hopefully - progress.

Thanks all!

Steve

 

[markvone]

Steve,

On my Barient 23ST (and 32ST), with the top circlip and washer off, you can see the splines on the top of the main shaft and inside the line stripper that lock the line stripper in position radially. The line stripper has to come straight up (with the jaws and drum) to come off and it will not rotate when installed on the main shaft. I don't see those splines on your winch so maybe your line stripper does thread onto the main shaft.

Be careful banging or levering on the grey cast aluminum parts as they crack easily.

Mark

 

[Rocinante33]

Some instructions which may (or may not) help

http://www.arco-winches.com/products/service

 

[Rocinante33]

And these diagrams:

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/indexes/winches.htm

BTW, don’t forget to cut a cardboard box out to fit over the base of the winch to catch loose springs & pawls, etc. as it comes apart. It may save them from going overboard.

 

[slipstreamer]

Success!! The winch is disassembled!

All, especially Christian and Tom - Success!!! A few deliberate but careful wacks on the stripper arm with a wooden mallet freed it up and allowed me to remove the drum! Any day you don't have to cut off nuts is a good day! I still don't know what the model is, but not to worry. On to the servicing now....
Thanks to all!

 

[p.gazibara]

When I bought Cinderella, her winches hardly spun. When I pulled them apart, I found 2 bent pawls and some springs that needed replacing.

Being that I was living aboard down the street from Fisheries Supply in Seattle that is where I found replacements. I just used the lewmar pawls under advice from the staff there.

The winches were back in pepper working order in no time!

That maintanence lasted me 2 years! I also learned a great pro tip. Simple Green is your friend. Why hurt the liver with kerosene soaked hands?? I can think of way better ways to test the liver.

There must be something to the sun statement. Or winches were in pretty rough shape by the time we made it to La Paz, MX so I maintained them there. (5000ish nm of sailing)

I just maintained them again when we were waiting out papagallos in Nicaragua, the "first speed" of my port primary no longer worked. (2000 nm of sailing)

Turned out to be a broken spring. Thankfully I still had some of those Fisheries Supply replacements.

Looks like the more sun, the more often you have to take them apart.

At least I don't have an engine to deal with...

 

[bgary]

Some of the 80s-era Barients had a locking plate which required a special (Barient-supplied) wrench.

I've discovered (?) another variant. Or, at least, one I hadn't been aware of and hadn't seen in the online source.

I removed the two Barient-10s from my cabin-top last night. Manual said there would be snap-rings. There were not. As it turns out, pressing down on a plastic plate at the bottom of the handle socket releases the top plate from the top of the center shaft, allowing the drum to be removed.

Simple... once you figure it out.

Adding this to the thread so it is findable for the next time.

Bruce

 

[Christian Williams]

Something else, too, while we're at it.

For many years--what, 40?--I carefully hosed down all winches after every sail, like all the rest of the deck gear.

That doesn't do anything, it is now apparent.

But pulling off the aluminum drum once a year is easy, once you figure out the personal quirk, for real antisalt irrigation. Maybe a little grease, too. Basically a five-minute job in most cases.

Here's what they looked like when I didn't:

 

[MarineCityBrian]

Is this a Barient 17 ST - two speed winch??




My Ericson 35.3 has a Barient winch on the cabin top but it does not have a number on the drum. It is self-tailing and two speed. The dimensions are a max diam of 5", height of 6.5". I will add a photo of it. I want to find a second one of these to add to the other side of the cabin top, but I am struggling to figure out what winch this is. It looks to be the same size as a 17 ST but the only ST i have seen from Barient is a single speed...

Ken - is your 17ST single or double speed and does it have a number on the top of the drum?

Can anyone help confirm my model? Extra credit if you can source one for sale!

View attachment 23695View attachment 23696

Fully realize this is an old post, but thought I'd chime-in anyway due to my experience with this particular winch. On my E35-3, that main-sheet winch is a Barient Model 19 ST 2-speed. Looks identical to yours with the exception of having "19" stamped into the self-tailer top retention washer (it almost looked like that part was missing from yours). It's a strange beast; it's got smaller pawls than the standard Barients that I understand may be a leftover from Barlow when they merged/were acquired by Barient in the late 70s/early 80s. The pawls are no longer available, but mine were serviceable; the springs ARE available from a source in Australia (Hutton-Arco winches: http://www.arco-winches.com/). I don't believe they list the springs on the "spare parts" portion of their web site; if I recall I had to email them with pictures to have them source the part correctly, and also if I recall the spring tail required some trimming to fit perfectly, but they work great. Shipping is more than the parts, but far FAR cheaper than a new winch.... I ordered enough for I think 3 complete winch rebuilds, which should last my lifetime. I also have a back-up Harken winch I came across for very little money should the odd-ball Barient ever fail.
I was able to rebuild mine successfully. The Islander 36 apparently also came with these winches, and they have the manual/parts diagram on their site:

Winch Service Manual for Barient No. 19 - S/T

l-36.com

Hope you were able to rebuild the winch, but if not, I hope this info can help you out.

 

[Spiny Norman]

"Winch covers slow that process down, allegedly."

As I'm getting ready to service my winches, I thought I'd go through these old posts to see what I could glean. It's funny, I've always wondered why someone would bother with canvas winch covers. If it works, it's worth it. Does it work, of course, really is the question.