Pulling trigger on E28+--Sail Recommendations

[Loren Beach]

Fractional Rig and Headsail Sizing

FWIW comment-
Our prior boat for a decade was a 3/4 fractional rig Niagara 26. Huge main -- the deck stepped mast was 34' long. (!)

While we did use the 150 genny for some racing with a full crew and also for an occasional evening sail in very light air, the other 80 or 90% of the time we sailed with the lapper (about a 105).
With a powerful main, the smaller jib was easy to trim and made the boat easy to single hand.

For everyday sailing, large overlapping head sails are overrated, IMHO.

Loren

 

[Allen Jenneman]

Phil,
Have sailed my 28-5 for 17 years on the Tampa Bay. This is a excellent sail boat. Fractional rig with big jenny allows me to sail 80% of the time with just the jenny and have hit 7.5 knots with just the jenny on a broad reach.
Be sure to check the fresh water recirculation pump if it is located under the intake manifold of the 5411 if it is fresh water cooled. Weakest part of that engine and hard to change impellor on but don't let that worry you or stop you. These Sherwood's can be rebuilt.
10-6 beam and 6-2 head room gives you the most boat you will ever find in a boat under 30 foot.
I have done all the work on my boat and engine myself and would be happy to help in any way with info and advice.
Best,
Al

Phil,
If your engine has a fresh water cooling loop then the fresh water pump may be located near the rear of the engine and under the intake air manifold facing aft .OR it could be in the upper right front of the engine. This fresh water pump, pumps water thru the heat exchanger counter flow of the raw water coming from the raw water pump. the thing with these Sherwood pumps is that the impellers have to be changed at least every three years and unless you know for certain the last time they were changed I would put it on the list before you head out Catalina Island. My e 28.5 was built in 1984 but the paper work says 1985...so we may have near identical universal engines. if these rubber impellors fail, the veins break off and can get stuck in the corner of the pump or hoses or heat exchanger and interrupt flow. That's another reason to make sure they have been serviced.
As far as sails are concerned your wind conditions are different than Tampa Bay and I am with Christian's comment on sails all the way. I just bought a new 150 jenny that I can use exclusively most of the time but here we get sea breezes of 8 to 12 knots most of the time and if it gets heavier than that I roll the jenny up part way and while not ideal it fine for me single handing. I paid $1500 for my new jenny from a local dealer just this year. Its a Rolly made in Australia [dacron] I took my old sail to the dealer to measure in his shop cause I wanted the exact dimension and cut so it would fit on my harken furling gear I would look for suggestions out there but I would agree with others commenting that a 105 and main would give you the best efficiency. I don't race so I worry more about my beer spilling and reefing a main is a lot of work in my thinking. I sail across the Bay to 4 different restaurants for lunch 6 hours round trip. Call or text me any time before 7 PM your time 727 698 4139 cell sailorman725@gmail.com check out my fotos on the forum.

 

[Phil Rushing]

Al, I will definitely have that impeller changed before too much use. Mike, apreciate all your comments on sails, etc. Loren, great info on sails. I requested a quote from North but no response yet. I did contact a local sailmaker who seemed pricey compared to a bid I got from Precision. Precision is made somewhere overseas, meaning I have to take my own measurements, but they have great prices. Still trying to decide. Is anyone familiar with Ron at Precision or have any experience with them?

 

[Loren Beach]

Sails

Al, I will definitely have that impeller changed before too much use. Mike, apreciate all your comments on sails, etc. Loren, great info on sails. I requested a quote from North but no response yet. I did contact a local sailmaker who seemed pricey compared to a bid I got from Precision. Precision is made somewhere overseas, meaning I have to take my own measurements, but they have great prices. Still trying to decide. Is anyone familiar with Ron at Precision or have any experience with them?

Note that we are in the prime season for discounts from most of the major sailmakers. I like UK or North, and there are other good choices.
Have you called UKSails in your area?

Given the number of angry or unhappy sailors complaining about Precision on the major sailing forums, I would give them a pass.
Speaking of discount Asian lofts, a good friend of mine has been selling Lee Sails for 20 years, and stands behind them totally -- I saw him eat one large sail when the customer changed their mind about the purchase. This is not a commercial forum, so email me privately for contact info if wanted.

Regards,
Loren

 

[Phil Rushing]

First Sail

Finally took possession of "Aura" (name soon to be changed to "Keona", Hawaiian for God's gracious gift, albeit after the appropriate name changing ceremony!). She is the E28+ I've been talking about and she is everything you all said she would be! A tremendous amount of boat for the money! I think all of us are benefiting today from the plethora of boats built back in the '60's, '70's and '80's; there are a lot of good boats out there for not very much money. The only real shortcoming was the guy at the wheel. That would be me! She is the biggest boat I have ever sailed, and a far cry from my little E23. The E23 I can sail blindfolded; this boat gets my attention. There is a definite learning curve, especially in slow speed maneuvering, i.e. docking. But I did O.K. with a little help. For any of you who know San Diego, we sailed her from Fiddler's Cove Marina in South Bay (San Diego Bay) north to Marina Village in Mission Bay. A little over 19 miles. We had 15 knots for most of the afternoon so it was a good test under sail, and she excelled. I was very impressed with how close hauled she would sail! We got a late start and didn't pull into Marina Village until after dark. All electronics seemed to work fine, with the exception of the depth gage and the knot meter. But I knew going in they were not working. The Universal 5411 ran great. I really have no serious complaints. There are some rigging issues to resolve, positioning of hardware, etc, but other than I have no issues. Essentially I am in boat heaven!

As I said earlier, her skipper was the biggest problem. I don't know how many of you are familiar with South Bay in San Diego Bay, but it can be very shallow in places at low tide. Yep, you guessed it - I ran her aground! I said all electronics worked; all except the depth gage and knot meter! Never have I done this before! Fortunately, I was under power going slow so no harm, no foul. Could not free her up by running the motor, but didn't want to force it and damage anything. So we just sat there. I contemplated calling Vessel Assist, but thought I'd give it a little time. Glad I did because after sitting there for 20 minutes, I noticed the boat started bobbing and rolling a little. She had come free; fired up the motor and was out of there! In my defense, I noticed the change in water color and even commented to my mate that it looked shallow. But I was within the channel markers and in the middle of the bay. I thought to myself, "this is the middle of the bay, I'm within the channel markers, it CAN'T be less than 5' deep". Guess again!! It could have been much worse, and this was the worst that happened on this "maiden voyage"

Thanks again to everyone for your input during the purchase process. I'm pretty much beside myself with this boat and so glad I got her!

Phil

 

[Frank Langer]

Congratulations! Yeah, these boats are fun! And also, most sailors know that its not if you run aground, but when you run aground--it may be that you're just a little ahead of the curve doing it on your first sail!
Frank

 

[Mike Davis]

Maiden Voyage

Finally took possession of "Aura" (name soon to be changed to "Keona", Hawaiian for God's gracious gift, albeit after the appropriate name changing ceremony!). She is the E28+ I've been talking about and she is everything you all said she would be! A tremendous amount of boat for the money! I think all of us are benefiting today from the plethora of boats built back in the '60's, '70's and '80's; there are a lot of good boats out there for not very much money. The only real shortcoming was the guy at the wheel. That would be me! She is the biggest boat I have ever sailed, and a far cry from my little E23. The E23 I can sail blindfolded; this boat gets my attention. There is a definite learning curve, especially in slow speed maneuvering, i.e. docking. But I did O.K. with a little help. For any of you who know San Diego, we sailed her from Fiddler's Cove Marina in South Bay (San Diego Bay) north to Marina Village in Mission Bay. A little over 19 miles. We had 15 knots for most of the afternoon so it was a good test under sail, and she excelled. I was very impressed with how close hauled she would sail! We got a late start and didn't pull into Marina Village until after dark. All electronics seemed to work fine, with the exception of the depth gage and the knot meter. But I knew going in they were not working. The Universal 5411 ran great. I really have no serious complaints. There are some rigging issues to resolve, positioning of hardware, etc, but other than I have no issues. Essentially I am in boat heaven!

As I said earlier, her skipper was the biggest problem. I don't know how many of you are familiar with South Bay in San Diego Bay, but it can be very shallow in places at low tide. Yep, you guessed it - I ran her aground! I said all electronics worked; all except the depth gage and knot meter! Never have I done this before! Fortunately, I was under power going slow so no harm, no foul. Could not free her up by running the motor, but didn't want to force it and damage anything. So we just sat there. I contemplated calling Vessel Assist, but thought I'd give it a little time. Glad I did because after sitting there for 20 minutes, I noticed the boat started bobbing and rolling a little. She had come free; fired up the motor and was out of there! In my defense, I noticed the change in water color and even commented to my mate that it looked shallow. But I was within the channel markers and in the middle of the bay. I thought to myself, "this is the middle of the bay, I'm within the channel markers, it CAN'T be less than 5' deep". Guess again!! It could have been much worse, and this was the worst that happened on this "maiden voyage"

Thanks again to everyone for your input during the purchase process. I'm pretty much beside myself with this boat and so glad I got her!

Phil

So happy for you Phil. They are a great boat and I'm sure you will get years of pleasure from her. Like Frank said every sailor goes aground at some point: I think I still have enough fingers to count the number of times I've had one of my boats in a place where it is "unsinkable" ( silver lining to being aground).
Mike

 

[Phil Rushing]

Well, I have a new boat! She's the E28+ discussed in the previous posts.The new boat needs new sails. Here's what I have found so far. Note that all four bids are for the same or comparable sail cloth and same options, so we are comparing apples to apples. Delivery time varies, with Peak being the quickest at 3 to 4 weeks and North being the longest at 6 to 8 weeks:

1) Precision sails 2) Peak Sails 3) LG Sails 4) North Sails
Main: $1155 Main: $835 Main: $1435 Main: $2142
Genoa: $1261 Genoa: $835 Genoa: $1485 Genoa: $2300
Total: $2416 Total: $1670 Total: $2920 Total: $4442
Order on line, Order on line, new, local sailmaker They do it all:
I have to do I have to do recommended by measure, fit, etc
measurements measurements skipper/friend reputable; everyone
and installation and installation. who had sails made knows North Sails.
4-6 weeks Shortest wait; for his Capri 30 that They take the longest - 6-8 weeks
3-4 weeks he races in Wed. night
beer can races. LG does
everything, including
measuring and
installation.
4 weeks

I would appreciate any recommendations, suggestions, etc. Not knowing that much about sails, I am somewhat leery of taking the measurements myself, and I'm a little leery of installing a roller furling genoa, although I'm assuming its not too difficult. At this point, I'm leaning toward LG. Thanks again everyone!

Phil

 

[Phil Rushing]

Woops! Excuse the format!

On my recent post regarding which sails to buy, the format was very confusing. To clarify:

1) Precision Sails: main -$1155 Genoa - $1261 Total - $2416 ; Order on line; I am responsible for all measurements and installation; wait time is 4 to 6 weeks.
2) Peak Sails: main - $835 Genoa - $835 Total - $1670 ; order on line; I am responsible for measurements and installation; wait time is 3 to 4 weeks
3) LG Sails: main - $1435 Genoa - $1485 Total - $2920 ; LG is a new local sail maker in San Diego. Recommended by owner of a Capri 30 that races in Wed night beer can races. He just had a new set of racing sails made and he is very happy with them. They would do all measurements and installation. Wait time is 4 weeks.
4) North Sails: main - $2142 Genoa - $2300 Total - $4442 ; North is a reputable company that makes good sails. Little risk here. They also do it all, including measurements and installation. Most likely assured to get good sails, but very expensive!

At this point, I am leaning toward LG.

Appreciate any comments, opinions, recommendations. Thanks to all!!

Phil

 

[bgary]

No recommendation on sailmaker, but... I'd highly recommend choosing an option in which *they* come measure (as Christian has said). If you mis-measure, you own the sail; if they mis-measure, they make it right.

Also, in general, choose a sailmaker based on their ongoing service. Buying a sail isn't a transaction, it's the beginning of a relationship. Some of the things that one can reasonably expect from a full-service loft are things like... them coming down to the boat and installing the sails to make sure they set right; offering their guidance about trimming, wind ranges and such for your boat, being on-call if/when you need repairs, etc.

There may be deals on price... but over the long run, the "name brand" lofts make up for it with service.

$.02

 

[Mike Davis]

New Sails

On my recent post regarding which sails to buy, the format was very confusing. To clarify:

1) Precision Sails: main -$1155 Genoa - $1261 Total - $2416 ; Order on line; I am responsible for all measurements and installation; wait time is 4 to 6 weeks.
2) Peak Sails: main - $835 Genoa - $835 Total - $1670 ; order on line; I am responsible for measurements and installation; wait time is 3 to 4 weeks
3) LG Sails: main - $1435 Genoa - $1485 Total - $2920 ; LG is a new local sail maker in San Diego. Recommended by owner of a Capri 30 that races in Wed night beer can races. He just had a new set of racing sails made and he is very happy with them. They would do all measurements and installation. Wait time is 4 weeks.
4) North Sails: main - $2142 Genoa - $2300 Total - $4442 ; North is a reputable company that makes good sails. Little risk here. They also do it all, including measurements and installation. Most likely assured to get good sails, but very expensive!

At this point, I am leaning toward LG.

Appreciate any comments, opinions, recommendations. Thanks to all!!

Hi Phil
If you have a stock setup all the measurements will be in the book. If the sail cloth is comparable, is the stitching ( all seams triple stitched)?
Locally made you have a local solution if things go wrong.
I can see that the cost of sails is going up. I payed 1800 cdn$ for my main 4 years ago at North.
Mike

 

[Dave N]

I have a North 3DL main and 135 and they are beautiful. We wanted to get a new asymmetric spinnaker, but at less than half the price of a North sail, we decided to order from Peak. Will follow up with additional thoughts when it arrives in two weeks or so.









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•I.D. Markers on Head, Floot & Clew
•Color Coded Edges
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[Christian Williams]

LG sounds good to me.

 

[Pat O'Connell]

E28+Sails

LG sounds good to me too. They will be there to make it right.
Sail opinions for our E28+?
Main: We reefed 80% of the time in 81 thru early 90's when we had a baby or children on board. We are real family cruisers. Now at 70 reefing 80% of the time is wonderful.
Jib: Boat was delivered with a 110. Changed 25 years ago to a 150. Worked great. This year we put the 110 back for a few weeks when we broke the jib halyard retainer. Left the 110 on after we repaired the retainer and had a great summer with better visibility.
Best Regards
Pat O'Connell
1981 E28+Chips Universal 5411

 

[frick]

New Main for my E29

When it was time for a new main for E29 (1971) I called North and a week latter I called Doyle in Huntington Long Island. Doyle had a new sail on my boat BEFORE North returned my call.
Rick

Finally took possession of "Aura" (name soon to be changed to "Keona", Hawaiian for God's gracious gift, albeit after the appropriate name changing ceremony!). She is the E28+ I've been talking about and she is everything you all said she would be! A tremendous amount of boat for the money! I think all of us are benefiting today from the plethora of boats built back in the '60's, '70's and '80's; there are a lot of good boats out there for not very much money. The only real shortcoming was the guy at the wheel. That would be me! She is the biggest boat I have ever sailed, and a far cry from my little E23. The E23 I can sail blindfolded; this boat gets my attention. There is a definite learning curve, especially in slow speed maneuvering, i.e. docking. But I did O.K. with a little help. For any of you who know San Diego, we sailed her from Fiddler's Cove Marina in South Bay (San Diego Bay) north to Marina Village in Mission Bay. A little over 19 miles. We had 15 knots for most of the afternoon so it was a good test under sail, and she excelled. I was very impressed with how close hauled she would sail! We got a late start and didn't pull into Marina Village until after dark. All electronics seemed to work fine, with the exception of the depth gage and the knot meter. But I knew going in they were not working. The Universal 5411 ran great. I really have no serious complaints. There are some rigging issues to resolve, positioning of hardware, etc, but other than I have no issues. Essentially I am in boat heaven!



When it was time for a new main for E29 (1971) I called North and a week latter I called Doyle in Huntington Long Island. Doyle had a new sail on my boat BEFORE North returned my call.
Rick

As I said earlier, her skipper was the biggest problem. I don't know how many of you are familiar with South Bay in San Diego Bay, but it can be very shallow in places at low tide. Yep, you guessed it - I ran her aground! I said all electronics worked; all except the depth gage and knot meter! Never have I done this before! Fortunately, I was under power going slow so no harm, no foul. Could not free her up by running the motor, but didn't want to force it and damage anything. So we just sat there. I contemplated calling Vessel Assist, but thought I'd give it a little time. Glad I did because after sitting there for 20 minutes, I noticed the boat started bobbing and rolling a little. She had come free; fired up the motor and was out of there! In my defense, I noticed the change in water color and even commented to my mate that it looked shallow. But I was within the channel markers and in the middle of the bay. I thought to myself, "this is the middle of the bay, I'm within the channel markers, it CAN'T be less than 5' deep". Guess again!! It could have been much worse, and this was the worst that happened on this "maiden voyage"

Thanks again to everyone for your input during the purchase process. I'm pretty much beside myself with this boat and so glad I got her!

Phil

 

[e38 owner]

Sobstad

Peter at Sobstad does good work at reasonable prices.
He really takes the time to design a sail to your needs

 

[bgary]

Doyle had a new sail on my boat BEFORE North returned my call.Rick

Have to say, I had a similar experience.

When I wanted to get a "checkup" for my new-to-me UK main and 135, I called UK in Marina Del Rey. Oliver responded immediately, knew the sails, was very helpful and referred me to the UK loft up here (WA)... said they could fit in the work sooner and it would probably cost less. So I called the UK loft in Bellingham, Dave responded immediately, was very helpful and took great care of me. was faster and cost less.

When I wanted to order an assy, I asked for bids from UK, Ullman and North.

Got competitive bids from UK and Ullman.

....Still haven't heard back from North.

 

[supersailor]

I had a set of sails made for my San Juan by North Sails Direct. They are a division of North Sails that provides sails mainly for cruisers etc. They were heavy weather sails as I sailed San Francisco Bay and there isn't much demand for light weather sails. I did the measurements but they also checked the boat's sail plan. They made a good set of sails for a lot cheaper than the local North loft. Another source if you want to check. Google North Sails Direct.

 

[Phil Rushing]

Great info on sail recommendations!

I have scheduled a meeting with Luis at LG this Friday at the boat. If all goes well, it'll be LG. If not, I plan on contacting North Sails Direct and UK and possibly Sobstad. I'll let you all know what happens. Thanks!

 

[Loren Beach]

I have scheduled a meeting with Luis at LG this Friday at the boat. If all goes well, it'll be LG. If not, I plan on contacting North Sails Direct and UK and possibly Sobstad. I'll let you all know what happens. Thanks!

From a bit of searching on-line, North Sails Direct may nowadays folded back into "North Sails".
Happy Shopping anyway.

Loren