Ericson 29 versus Ericson 30 +

[Rocinante33]

The V berth on the 29 is not too bad. My wife and I managed to sleep in ours when we had a 29, although not every night. Sometimes the snorer got sent to the quarterberth.

When the wind picks up, you would furl the jib on the 29 but you would reef the main first on the 30+. The 30+ would likely point a bit higher than the 29. You could look up the two PHRF ratings to get a comparison on performance.....I suspect the 30+ would be rated lower (quicker).

I like that bowsprit and windlass on the 29. Nice!

I like the design characteristics of the newer 30+.

Tough choice!

 

[Graham Young]

The V berth on the 29 is not too bad. My wife and I managed to sleep in ours when we had a 29, although not every night. Sometimes the snorer got sent to the quarterberth.

When the wind picks up, you would furl the jib on the 29 but you would reef the main first on the 30+. The 30+ would likely point a bit higher than the 29. You could look up the two PHRF ratings to get a comparison on performance.....I suspect the 30+ would be rated lower (quicker).

I like that bowsprit and windlass on the 29. Nice!

I like the design characteristics of the newer 30+.

Tough choice!

Thanks Keith. I suppose we will need to go see them and get an idea in person regarding the sleeping quarters. It is a tough choice. The 29 is priced quite a bit higher (by about 6-7k US) than any other 29 I've found currently on the market. I'm guessing that some of that is due to the cruising gear that has been added, but hopefully it would also reflect the condition of the boat on closer inspection. Not sure if the asking price is fair or not so I will probably consult BUC and NADA to get an idea.

I just found another 29 about 1 hour away from me for sale by owner with a 12 HP Yanmar. For an 8500 boat that seems under powered to me so that is a concern.

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/60679


Owner says the boat has been cleaned inside and out, has a new water pump and water tank, new Garmin GPS and new Batteries. Says the Yanmar starts up every time.

 

[PDX]

If you're comparing that 29 against Atomic-4 gasoline 29s that could be worth the price difference right there, assuming the current diesel is low hours and in good shape.

My suggestions:

As you say, visit the boats to determine whether the accommodations/storage will suit your needs. It may be that a 30 foot range Ericson will not. There are newer 30 foot range boats from other makers with much more interior space.

Sail both boats. Boats that perform well on paper, or that PHRF well, can still be difficult to handle. You won't find many complaints on the sailing characteristics of Ericsons on this site, but you won't know how you personally like them until you try them--on all points of sail in varying wind conditions. And whether a boat "feels" right can be a personal thing.

Make sure the engines check out OK. I suspect that engine replacement/major repair is the single biggest money pit in maintaining a boat of this vintage.

 

[Loren Beach]

Engines and Interiors

If you're comparing that 29 against Atomic-4 gasoline 29s that could be worth the price difference right there, assuming the current diesel is low hours and in good shape.

My suggestions:

As you say, visit the boats to determine whether the accommodations/storage will suit your needs. It may be that a 30 foot range Ericson will not. There are newer 30 foot range boats from other makers with much more interior space.

Sail both boats. Boats that perform well on paper, or that PHRF well, can still be difficult to handle. You won't find many complaints on the sailing characteristics of Ericsons on this site, but you won't know how you personally like them until you try them--on all points of sail in varying wind conditions. And whether a boat "feels" right can be a personal thing.

Make sure the engines check out OK. I suspect that engine replacement/major repair is the single biggest money pit in maintaining a boat of this vintage.

Both referenced boats are diesel-powered, and no matter what the fuel, it's always best to have a mechanic evaluate the engine as an important part of the survey process.
When we bought our boat we had never owned an inboard engine boat before or a diesel...... that survey found a problem (rectified as part of the sale process) and saved me more than the cost of the engine survey itself.

As for interior space, the majority of later model sailboats are designed for a "floating vacation home" market with sailing as a distant secondary requirement, and most are quite huge inside. But, they sail about like you might expect, or worse.

As for ease of sailing, the Bruce King Ericson's are renown for being easy to sail fast with minimal drama.

Loren

 

[paul culver]

I really like my E29 but...

It tacks through 125 to 130 degrees on multiple compasses I have used instead of the magic 90 degrees most people seem to get. I haven't yet figured it out and maybe other E29ers can chime in on this. I would certainly appreciate it. The tabs on my Windex (apparent wind) are set for 65 degrees and the boat sails fine by that measure on either tack. I might need to get professional advice on my standing rig tuning, but I don't sense any problems with excessive lee or weather helm. In fact, I can often let the boat steer herself if the seas aren't too rough.

Paul
E29 "Bear"

 

[Randy Rutledge]

I like my two E 29s

If you go with the 29 be aware that the back of the keel is hollow to the bottom, Both of my 29 have had the bottom half of the hollow filled, I did the one on Rumkin and the other was done by a previous owner. I used a 60 pound bag of topping mix secrete mixed and poured in. There have been several boats with this type keel sink due to groundings on rock and cracking the back of the keel.


That said I love my E29 I have on Lake Weiss enough that when I wanted a second boat for the FL coast I bought an E29 for there. I just got her in the water in Pensacola FL last Friday and will be back down there on Thursday for a week of cruising. The 29 you are looking at looks like a steal equipped as it is and with the interior mods.

I find the interior very comfortable for a couple and the V berth is our choice for sleeping. Spend as much time on the boats as possible and one will speak to you.

 

[jacksonkev]

Thanks Keith. I suppose we will need to go see them and get an idea in person regarding the sleeping quarters. It is a tough choice. The 29 is priced quite a bit higher (by about 6-7k US) than any other 29 I've found currently on the market. I'm guessing that some of that is due to the cruising gear that has been added, but hopefully it would also reflect the condition of the boat on closer inspection. Not sure if the asking price is fair or not so I will probably consult BUC and NADA to get an idea.

I just found another 29 about 1 hour away from me for sale by owner with a 12 HP Yanmar. For an 8500 boat that seems under powered to me so that is a concern.

http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/60679


Owner says the boat has been cleaned inside and out, has a new water pump and water tank, new Garmin GPS and new Batteries. Says the Yanmar starts up every time.

Did you buy the first E29? Looks like someone did according to the listing.

I've owned both models...E29 (2000-2014) and E30+ (2015-present). From a distance, they look really similar (see pics). They are very different (usually). Here's a few things that come to mind. Feel free to ask any specific questions....

The E30+ commonly comes standard with Universal M20 and wheel. Most E29's have an Atomic 4 auxiliary and tiller. These are big differences. I grew to love (well maybe like) my A4 but have to say, I'll never own another boat with a gas engine. The tiller or wheel argument will have folks on either side. It really comes down to personal preference. IMHO, under sail the tiller is way more responsive but the wheel is easier to handoff to a newbie crew member and enables the Cap'n to stand and drive out of the way of crew.

The rigs are very different as well. The E30+ main sail is quite large for a boat this size. (246.98 ft2 vs. 183.85 ft2). The net result is a lot more trimming, reefing, adjusting to keep the boat handling well (especially in heavy breeze). Along these lines...the E30+ rig is a bit more racy. Fractional rig v. masthead. Also, I've found the boom to be a little low for my comfort level in the cockpit. It's a bit of a deck sweeper. This becomes a factor when not racing. I have to remind everyone repeatedly to stay down when we tack. Overall, I'd say the E29 sails really solid for a 29' racer/cruiser. The E30+ is a bit tender but points a little higher. Overall, the difference in age should mean more modern/user friendly deck hardware on the E30+.

The greatest difference (to me) is the cabin. It's surprising how much roomier the E30 is. Although the galley is a bit undersized (no counter space (or drawers)....I custom cut a slab of butcher block counter to fit on top of the stove that really helped but the 3 drawers in the E29 held more than you'd think), the rest of the cabin dwarfs the E29. It's hard to explain unless you've sat in one yourself. The lack of storage in the E30+ is real though. I installed a dowel in the head as a wet locker and I use the wet locker next to the nav station as a place to store dry jackets. But storage is very limited. On the E29, there were lockers under both full length settees that held a ton of tools, backup gear, cleaners, oil, spare boat parts and sailing hardware. The E30+ has a few wells here and there that don't hold much. If I were cruising on the E30+, I might consider bringing Rubbermaid type storage boxes and stow them aft in the quarter berth. Speaking of berths....(and this might be the biggest advantage to the E30+) the "dinette" table drops down in the E30+ and a side cushion completes a conversion into a queen sized berth in the main cabin. If you're cruising as a couple, it's waaaaaayyyyyy better than sleeping in the v-berth in the E29. (My wife hacked my account and added this comment)

Overall, they're both great boats! Good luck!

My 1971 E29 'Valhalla'...

My 1981 E30+ 'Cetus'...

 

[jamescio]

Ericson 30+

An unusable V berth would be a deal breaker for me. My partner and I are not big people by any stretch (she is actually quite tiny), but we need to be able to sleep comfortably.

Graham I have an Ericson 30+ in Ashtabula Ohio. You are welcome to come to take a look at mine and even go for a sail.

 

[sgwright67]

Reviving this thread...

As this thread has some great info already, I thought I would revive it, rather than start a new one, to save on replies to questions already answered above.

I have come across an '81 30+ which appears to be in good shape, with a fair amount of work done in the past few years, including standing rigging and recent sails. Of course, the price reflects this, at 2-3x the price of the 29s I've looked at.

My main questions/concerns are:

I understand the 30+ is quite a bit more tender than the 29, which combined with the large main and fractional rig, will mean reefing earlier. How big a concern is this for coastal cruising (BC, maybe extending to Mexico and Alaska in future).

I admit to liking the encapsulated keel of the 29, the deeper bilge it provides, and no worries about keel bolts (although I realize this last point is probably not that big an issue, and any newer boat will have them).

Aesthetically, I prefer the more traditional shape of the 29, over the pinched stern of the 30+, and I *think* the 29 cockpit might be a bit roomier.

So my Pros/Cons for the two are as follows (assuming diesel/wheel/cockpit traveller options on both). Please feel free to correct or comment if I am off base on any of these:

29:
+stiffer, smaller main means later reefing
+prefer traveller location at wheel
+more open salon, galley is small, but actually appears larger than 30+
+better storage in galley and other areas
-no nav station

30+:
+v berth a bit larger (I think)
+nav station
+larger tankage at 25G/25G
+rates about 30s/m faster
-galley is small with minimal storage
-lack of storage overall (based on comments from others)

Anything else? I'm hoping to view at 30+ locally, so I should have a much better idea about how it feels. I've only been aboard one 30+ and at the time I was looking at a C&C 35, so I didn't pay that much attention to details.

Thanks

 

[Frank Langer]

HI,
As the owner of a 1984 E30+ for the past 13 years, sailing on the BC coast (Gulf Islands, San Juan islands, Desolation Sound, Discovery islands, Strait of Georgia), I am a bit biased. My wife and I love our E30+ and would absolutely choose it over the E29, though I've only been inside one and didn't sail it.

The E30+ handles so well, is easy to single hand even in fairly rough weather, is very fast and responsive and just fun to sail. I singlehand about 70% of the time year round, my wife joins me for day sails and for cruises lasting up to a month in the summer, and we have kids/grandkids aboard frequently. We have had as many as 7 adults aboard for a day sail (a bit crowded but manageable), and had five adult family aboard for a week at a time (cozy but manageable).

You mention the large mainsail, and yes it is larger than many in a 30 foot boat, but it's not too large. I will furl our 125% headsail about a third when the wind hits 17 knots, will add a first reef in the mainsail at about 18 - 19 knots (especially if I think the wind will continue to build, but not if it's only the occasional gust), will add a second reef at about 23 knots. I have sailed the boat in 34 knots of wind with reefed main and headsail, and it was fine. I have sailed in steep/close period 6 foot waves across the Strait of Georgia in 27 knot winds, with double reef and the boat handled very well. Although I'm only 5' 8", 160 lbs and 67 years old, I don't have any problem flaking the mainsail at the end of the day without need for lazyjacks or other aids.

The interior of the 30+ is well laid out and very functional. It does not have the drawers of some of the larger boats, but there are lockers under all the settees and cushions. The V-berth is definitely large enough to sleep two adults comfortably and the table drops to form a very comfortable double. The settee across from it will sleep a single adult, especially if the back cushions are removed to make it a bit wider. My adult 6'1" son always chooses the quarterberth when he's aboard. It's when all those sleeping spots are in use (ie. 6 adults) that it becomes a bit of a challenge to find room for the duffle bags and backpacks, but it can be done.

The cockpit is large enough to enable two couples to relax comfortably, and it is long enough that my wife and I can sit with backs against the entry bulkhead and feet stretched out and not have them hang over the edge of the locker area.

Having sailed boats with tiller and wheel, both have advantages/disadvantages, but I have become very comfortable with the wheel on our boat which avoids interfering with crew in the cockpit the way a tiller would. The pedestal by the wheel is great for mounting knotmetre, anemometer, gps, etc. in easy view of the helmsman.

The 9,000 lbs. displacement of the E30+ is enough to handle any weather I've been in, yet light enough that I can slow the boat at the dock if I come in a bit faster than usual. I wouldn't be able to do this with a larger, heavier boat.

So in summary, I love our E30+ and recommend it highly. If you are in the Nanaimo area at any time, I'd be happy to have you aboard so you can see her attributes for yourself!

Frank

ps. I don't know why the one pic is so large--wasn't intended that way, but still kind of nice.

 

[sgwright67]

Thanks, Frank... I knew you would respond!

I am also 5'8", so you're comments about sail handling are helpful, as are those about the sleeping arrangements. No grandkids yet, and our grown kids aren't keen on sailing, so it will be just two of us most of the time. We could probably do fine with an E27, to be honest.

How do you find the traveller location when single-handing? The E29 location seemed ideal for single handing, and my wife also liked that it is clear of the companionway. I have seen a few 30+ with it on the cabin top, but this seems even worse for single-handing.

I really wish we'd had a chance to sail a 29, so I'd have a basis for comparison. This 30+ is priced the same as the '81 C&C 30-1 we looked at a few months ago, which was absolutely mint. If I knew we'd be back into this price territory, I probably would have just bought that boat. I walked away thinking it was *too* nice, and I'd be afraid of putting the first scratch in it.
(I haven't bought a new car since 1990 for the same reason...)

 

[Frank Langer]

Hi,

You asked about the traveller on the E30+. I'm not sure that earlier years were the same, but on our 1984 E30+ the traveller is on the cabin top in front of the dodger, with lines led through a zipper slot in the dodger back into the cockpit. I have all lines led aft to the cockpit (mainsheet, boom vang, outhaul, reefing lines, halyards), and can manage them from the helm (except for needing to place the lower luff cringle on the hook at the gooseneck when reefing).

I like the traveller location because it is easy to manage, yet does not compromise the cockpit. I don't like boats with the traveller or mainsheet either at the bridge in front of the companionway entry or across the cockpit itself a bit further back (that's really hard on the shins!).

A C & C 30 is also a very nice boat, but again I would choose our E30+ over it if both were in similar condition.

Frank

 

[woolamaloo]

How do you find the traveller location when single-handing? The E29 location seemed ideal for single handing, and my wife also liked that it is clear of the companionway. I have seen a few 30+ with it on the cabin top, but this seems even worse for single-handing.

I agree with Frank about the 30+ traveler position. Mine, like his, is on the cabin top. It makes the cockpit way more open and I really like it up there. I almost exclusively single-hand and I find that it's convenient there because I'm stepping in front of the helm to tack or make sail adjustments in general. The only problem is if I'm in severe conditions and I need to be ready to dump the main quickly. But even in those conditions, I'm already double reefed - or under reefed headsail alone. However, I can ease or dump the main quickly by taking the windward traveler sheet back to the helm. It's a big motion to lift it high enough to pull out of the cam in 25+ knots but it's worked fine the couple times that was necessary.

(Note: My traveler was upgraded by the P.O. to a Garhauer.)

 

[Christian Williams]

With a wheel and a wheel pilot, the sail controls are available wherever they happen to be. Right?

I canʻt imagine working a boat without self-steering, whether alone or with guests. An EV-100 allows the skipper to be his own four-person crew.

Wheel pilot: another justification for loss of the feel a tiller provides.

 

[sgwright67]

With a wheel and a wheel pilot, the sail controls are available wherever they happen to be. Right?

I canʻt imagine working a boat without self-steering, whether alone or with guests. An EV-100 allows the skipper to be his own four-person crew.

Wheel pilot: another justification for loss of the feel a tiller provides.

Yes, I would certainly make use of a wheel pilot when possible, but if it fails, or can't handle the conditions, wouldn't that make it a bit more complicated? I'm also wondering about typical BC finicky wind conditions, where wind speed/direction changes every few miles on the inside passages. Again, you have infinitely more experience than I, so it is good to hear your feedback.

I'm curious about your comment on the wheel pilot vs. tiller: do the tiller pilots not offer the same functionality, or are they just a set and hold course variety? We're likely getting a wheel, but I'm curious.

 

[sgwright67]

I agree with Frank about the 30+ traveler position. Mine, like his, is on the cabin top. It makes the cockpit way more open and I really like it up there. I almost exclusively single-hand and I find that it's convenient there because I'm stepping in front of the helm to tack or make sail adjustments in general. The only problem is if I'm in severe conditions and I need to be ready to dump the main quickly. But even in those conditions, I'm already double reefed - or under reefed headsail alone. However, I can ease or dump the main quickly by taking the windward traveler sheet back to the helm. It's a big motion to lift it high enough to pull out of the cam in 25+ knots but it's worked fine the couple times that was necessary.

(Note: My traveler was upgraded by the P.O. to a Garhauer.)

Thanks, good to know. I found the position just ahead of the wheel on the 29 leaves the cockpit open, and is nicely integrated into the step separating the cockpit sections. But both 30+ I have seen have it on the bridge deck just aft of the companionway, and that seems like a pain. It's not something that would make me walk away from a boat, but it's definitely a negative for me. So it is good to know that the cabin top traveller can also work well.

My preference is to spend the time now to get the right boat, and not be repeating the process in a year or two because the boat isn't suitable for what we want to do, which includes extended offshore cruising. So far, many of the boats we've looked at in the 28-30' range are being sold because the owner wants to move up, either because of kids, or because they want to sail further distances.

 

[toddster]

They do, but when things are rockin and rollin, and the situation is a bit... dynamic, Otto doesn’t do very well. He reacts too slowly to a wave or a big gust and suddenly you’re on your ear. Unless you shorten sail so much that things get boring. Another fun thing you’ll learn when things are powered-up is that you can just lock the rudder and steer with the sheets. Although how to depower without turning the boat 90 degrees (and running into something) can become a bit of a puzzle.

 

[sgwright67]

Hi,

You asked about the traveller on the E30+. I'm not sure that earlier years were the same, but on our 1984 E30+ the traveller is on the cabin top in front of the dodger, with lines led through a zipper slot in the dodger back into the cockpit. I have all lines led aft to the cockpit (mainsheet, boom vang, outhaul, reefing lines, halyards), and can manage them from the helm (except for needing to place the lower luff cringle on the hook at the gooseneck when reefing).

I like the traveller location because it is easy to manage, yet does not compromise the cockpit. I don't like boats with the traveller or mainsheet either at the bridge in front of the companionway entry or across the cockpit itself a bit further back (that's really hard on the shins!).

A C & C 30 is also a very nice boat, but again I would choose our E30+ over it if both were in similar condition.

Frank

Thanks for the details on your cockpit setup, it sounds ideal. And I'd love to see your boat - I'll send you a message next time we're planning a trip to Nanaimo to see if we might be able to arrange a visit. Just waiting to hear back if we are able to view the other 30+ in Victoria this weekend.

 

[Frank Langer]

Hi,
The wheel brake is simple to apply and remove (just a knob to turn), and that will keep the boat reasonably on course for a quick washroom break, snack, sail adjustment, etc. I have an autopilot, but have disabled it cause I don't quite trust technology enough to have it control my boat (I know I'm in the minority on this).
I agree with you entirely on taking time to buy the right boat now to avoid having to sell and buy a different boat in a few years. In my experience it takes the first year to become comfortable with the boat and learn about all the systems, engine, handling characteristics, etc. Then it takes more time to do the upgrades and cosmetic work to really make it feel like your boat. So you don't want to be in a position in a few years to go thru all that again.
Also, keep in mind that your boat needs to be sufficiently large and comfortable, but the larger you go in boat size, the more expensive is moorage, new sails and other equipment. Also, a larger boat is usually a bit harder to dock, especially in tight marinas.
Good luck in your search!
Frank

 

[Christian Williams]

Yes, I would certainly make use of a wheel pilot when possible, but if it fails, or can't handle the conditions, wouldn't that make it a bit more complicated? ...do the tiller pilots not offer the same functionality...

A new Raymarine wheel pilot is $1200-1500 and very simple and reliable. Skippers tend to leave them "on" and steer with course-selection buttons. +10 or -10 degrees, or +1 or -1 increments. To resume manual control, "standby" turns it off. All intuitive and easy.

A boat with its sails balanced can be sailed by a wheel pilot up to about 15 knots of wind on any course. They get overwhelmed after that. Their great contribution is for motoring. Under sail they steer a better course than we can. Power drain is low. With engine on and charging, not even a factor.

If I sound like a salesman, itʻs because Iʻm sold. Nothing makes taking guests out more comfortable for the skipper, and nothing gives a better impression of , uh, savoir faire. The skippersʻ tending to lines and sail tweaks is unhurried and accomplished with aplomb whilst he simultaneoulsy comments on foreign policy. He is no longer discombobulated by a guest asking--just as he casts off a sheet, steers with his knees, sees a foul developing and a gin and tonic about to spill--if he likes "Game of Thrones." This prevents people like me saying, "What? Do you not see me performing like a circus monkey and the sails flapping and Marthaʻs daughter about to fall overboard and trying to reach the winch handle Yvette is sprawled over, and do you really really think this is the appropriate time to block my way with full eye contact for your irrelevant and ill-timed intervention?"

So, another benefit of the wheel pilot is to successfully mask some of the more problematical aspects of oneʻs personality.

Tiller pilots are great, cheap and extremely useful. I didnʻt use them for tacking, though, but rather for sailing a course once on it. Also, a tiller puts you nearer the sail controls. A wheel traps you far aft, and you have to hand the wheel over to somebody else to do anything.

If that is my wife, and she is deeply engaged with her companions in a discussion of Manolo Blahniks, such a request is an ill-mannered interruption.

Yes, we all have different needs. My boat, alas, is not crewed like a destroyer heading into combat. It is a floating cocktail party. The wheel pilot allows me to fulfill my mission as a serving steward and to maintain the enormous lie that sailing is perspiration free and just sort of--happens.

[Oops--bit of thread creep here. Now back to E29 vs. 30+]