Ericson 35-3

[Guy Stevens]

Aloft Rig Inspection Not an estimate

I don't know why it is necessary to pay $300 for an estimate.

That is most likely the quote for an aloft rig inspection. Which is about what it should cost to go aloft and inspect that rig. The issue is that the original rigging is well past due for replacement. So they are being very nice and upfront about it. They are saying; "Why would you want us to spend $300 of your money to tell you that your rigging is long overdue for replacement, when we can look at the age of the boat and tell you the same thing for free."

Guy

 

[Nick J]

They gave me a rough materials estimate of $3,200 for the standing rigging. The $300 was for an estimated 3 hr of time to go aloft and do a rig inspection. At this point, I'm just trying to get a good idea of what I'm in for. So far its in line with what I was anticipating with only a few surprises. I'll know more when I get down to the boat next weekend and get a closer look (Just need to convince someone to hoist me up there).

On a positive note, the mechanic installed the new batteries and the engine fired up without a problem. I asked the broker to keep the batteries off the ancient charger this time.

 

[Alan Gomes]

I'd just have it re-rigged

On my last three boats, one of the first things I had done on them was to replace all of the standing rigging. That way, I knew exactly the condition it was in and had peace of mind moving forward. Unless the boat I was buying had recent rigging that could be verified as such, to me it's money very well spent.

 

[Nick J]

I'm starting to lean that direction for a couple reasons. I just got off the phone with Rigging Only and they were really helpful, returned a quote in about 15 minutes, and was half of what the previous quote was (both were for materials only). I also don't have a slip in my marina yet and will have to go on the 2.5 year waiting list. There are plenty of sublet slips available, but I'm thinking for a $150 more per month I can just lay it up in the yard for a few months, pull the mast and put it along side the boat (hopefully they don't charge extra to store the mast along the boat, but I'll have to check on that). That way I can take my time with any thru hull, rudder, or keel joint issues (aside from full on dropping the keel) and work on the rig at the same time. If I wait until I have a slip, I'll be paying for yard time and moorage or if I pull the mast at a later time I'll have to pay the yard time for storing the mast and moorage. It's more than I wanted to do at first, but it will be much more affordable in the long run and I'll feel a hell of a lot better. Of course, everything will depend on what I found out next weekend and from the survey.

 

[bgary]

...(hopefully they don't charge extra to store the mast along the boat, but I'll have to check on that).

Port of Everett? They have a separate "mast yard", and they charge for the space, but they do allow you to work on the mast while it is there.

I don't know if they'll let you keep the mast alongside the boat, or if they'd let you work on it there (instead of the mast-yard)…

Bruce

 

[Nick J]

Well that would throw a monkey wrench in my plans... I'll be down there on Friday to ask them about it.

 

[Kevin A Wright]

Hey Congratulations! Been busy the last few weeks with a new home and just saw this thread. It looks to me like a great deal. And if you want to get rid of that fancy V berth mattress I have a great home for it. Would love to know who made that if it's got a tag or anything on it since I've still got the old originals in my E35-3.

All in all that's a great price for that boat with a newer diesel in it. I wouldn't get too hung up on the battery charger unless you are using something other than standard lead acid batteries. Sure somewhere down the road you might want to upgrade, but I wouldn't consider that a big issue. I don't even have my shore power hooked up most of the time, just run the motor once a month or so over the winter and it keeps things charged up and the motor lubed.

If you are getting a lot of water coming in obviously the mast boot is a big culprit, but if you have radar on the mast you may have an amazing amount of water coming in with the wiring. Mine was not caulked or sealed and there wasn't a drip loop in the wiring before it entered the mast. One of the first things I had to chase down.

Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier since I'm in Port Townsend and would have been happy to come down and inspect the boat with you. I'm still available during the week, usually Tuesdays through Thursdays if you need me to look something over. Fridays through Mondays I'm in Olalla working on the new house though.

My boat is in the Port Townsend Marina on C dock if you want to take a look. The 35-3 is a roomy comfortable boat. I think you'll be happy with it.

Good Luck!

Kevin Wright
E35 Hydro Therapy

 

[Kenneth K]

Ericson 35-3 - Threats Galore

One of the greatest things about this site is that it's likely got info for any project you'll ever take on. One of the drawbacks to that is that it can also scare the crap out of you any time you take ownership of a "new" 30-40 year old boat. Danger seems to be lurking around every corner: standing rigging, keel bolts, engine, motor mounts, transmission, prop strut, thru-hulls & backing plates, PVC plumbing connections, soft decks, hardware & port/light leaks, crumbling steering pedestals, bad wiring, trailer plugs--the list of malfunctions that might want to sink, burn-down, disable, or de-mast your boat sounds endless. And, on a "new" old boat, you're almost completely lacking the maintenance/repair/replace history you would have on your own boat.

If someone were truly risk-averse, they might not want to buy a 30+ year old boat. Or, one could buy the boat with the generally-correct thought that almost everything on it will eventually need to be replaced. But, where to start? I think it was Christian Williams that recommended to me, just after I bought my boat, to just take ownership of it, use it gently and observe how it operates, in order to "let the priorities arrange themselves."

I don't know if you have a reason to doubt the mechanical integrity of your existing standing rigging (other than its age). If you've already made the decision to replace it, why spend the additional $300 for an inspection? The inspection would seem to be of value only if your'e considering delaying replacing the rigging, i.e., getting the assurance that no parts are cracked, badly worn, or facing imminent failure. Then, you could move re-rigging to your 3-5 year out to-do list. If you find out later that you need, say, extensive keel work, then it might make sense to do the re-rigging and the keel together, since, apparently, most facilities make you drop the mast when you drop the keel.

Most of us newer owners are facing the laundry list of potential disasters that may or may not happen to our aged boats (most don't happen). I'm not sure why, absent any concrete information, you're focusing on standing rigging as your main threat at this point.

 

[fool]

snip...They said the furler is 20-30 years old (possibly original) and, like my harken mki is no longer being supported...

There are many things on a 30 year old boat that are no longer supported and will still probably work just fine until they don't. That doesn't automatically mean you have to replace them all right now or the boat will sink while you're mulling them over. I'm with Kenneth (and Christian) on the notion of letting the priority list get sorted over time. However, I'd still pay to have the rig inspected in advance of closing.

I waited until after I purchased September Sun to have a rigger climb the mast to tell me if there were any frayed wires or cracked fittings I couldn't see from the deck/dock with binoculars. The sad news was hidden beneath sail tape holding the spreader boots in place. Sure enough, daylight could be seen through corrosion on the tips of the lower spreaders, although the rest of the rig inspected just fine. The tricky and complicated bit was fabricating a repair that in the end is much stronger than the original, and of course also came with a bill.

It would have been better to have known in advance... That's why we pay surveyors, mechanics, and riggers for their experience and (even then, not always accurate) advice. I'll also be in the Port Townsend area starting next week if you need another set of ears to bounce ideas off of reach out by private message if you're interested.

Regards,

Max

 

[Raj]

Most of us newer owners are facing the laundry list of potential disasters that may or may not happen to our aged boats (most don't happen). I'm not sure why, absent any concrete information, you're focusing on standing rigging as your main threat at this point.

[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Tahoma,Calibri,Geneva,sans-serif]https://www.ericsonyachts.org/infoexchange/showthread.php?16476-Ericson-35-3-dorade-box-leaks

A few have noted the issue with the dorade box leaks that might be a good place to begin.
Sorry if this has already been mentioned here - took a somewhat hurried peek at the thread.

[/FONT]

 

[Nick J]

Kenneth and Max, I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm definitely headed down that path, but not without a bit of reason. I'm on the waiting list for a slip at my home marina and will sublet a slip until one comes available. That puts me in a unique position of being able to pull the boat out now and keep it in the yard without paying moorage at the same time. While the boat was out I wanted to get some items checked off the list. I also, mistakenly, thought I could pull the mast and work on it along side the boat which would would have made it a good time to replace the rig. There's nothing inherently wrong with the rig nor have I seen anything that gives me reason to replace now (I'm going to get a closer look sometime next week). It just comes down to good timing. Of course, that was before I found out the yard charges for mast storage and boat storage at the same time.

I should probably take Christian's advise in the purchase and apply it to posting, but it has brought out some really useful and encouraging comments from this incredible site. I definitely appreciate all the help and kind words I've received over the years and with this current endeavor. For now, it's back to a more prudent plan of planning for a few scenarios and using the info I get from the surveyor to decide what to do.

 

[bgary]

BTW.... if you need an extra pair of hands with anything once she's in Everett (fingers crossed), let me know. I'm local and happy to pitch in.

 

[bigd14]

Can you store the mast on top of the boat without extra charge? It's more of a pain to work on it there but might be possible with ladders.

 

[Nick J]

Can you store the mast on top of the boat without extra charge? It's more of a pain to work on it there but might be possible with ladders.

The people at the Port of Everett are nice enough, but its a public owned facility, there really isn't any room to negotiate. I'm also not wild about working on my mast from the top of a ladder (it would be around 11' in the air). I did think about it for a minute though.

 

[Nick J]

BTW.... if you need an extra pair of hands with anything once she's in Everett (fingers crossed), let me know. I'm local and happy to pitch in.

Thanks Bruce! I'll have to stop by again and take you up on the offer.

 

[Nick J]

Another visit, Sea Trial, & Survey

Max helped me a few Fridays ago inspect the rig and take a closer look on the boat. The batteries were low again due to a leaking stuffing box that had the bilge pump cycling frequently, but the rig looked much better than I had expected. I'm thinking it might have been replaced at some time. Maybe just stemball to the upper navtec swage. The mast corrosion was better than I expected as well. It still needs to be addressed at some point, but it didn't look any worse than any other 1984 mast. We also found all of the seacocks have been replaced with Marelon seacocks and new hoses. Another big relief was cleaning out the bilge to find what I thought was thick rust on the keel bolts was actually only some kind of compound applied to them. It came off in clumps of what felt like clay. Underneath the mess were shiny keel bolts! We also unfurled the head sail and raised the main. The head sail looked brand new and the main was in good shape as well. There was a lot of friction in the running rigging. Most was coming from the clutches and winches.

Last Friday was the sea trial and survey. Outside of a heavily encrusted prop that forced us to make the 5 mile trip to Port Hudson at 2.5 knots and a slipping belt that kept us under 2.5 knots for most of the way back, the survey didn't find any surprises. We cleaned the prop at haul out and my wife found a 13 mm wrench on the way back so we were able to tighten the belt and get the boat up to 6 knots going in to a 1 knot current. The hull and deck are sound without any signs of delamination. There are a moderate amount of small blisters with a few larger ones of apx. 1.5" in diameter. The rudder and keel were in great condition and the bottom was surprisingly clean for not have a new coat of paint in almost 6 years. I was disappointed in the stuffing box being left unattended for so long. It looks like its been leaking like that for a while with the transmission lever, rear engine mounts, and shaft coupler rusted. Those have the potential of being a difficult repair I wasn't expecting on a newer engine.

Overall the boat is what we expected, so we're going to accept it and continue with the purchase. So many ideas, worries, and plans are running through my head right now. Next weekend will be split between finishing up projects on Luffalee and making plans to get the boat over to Everett. The next few months will be filled with rebuilding portlights, repairing the mast boot, painting the bottom.... but now its time to sit back, take a deep breath, and enjoy the holidays.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Sounds like you did very, very well in this purchase. Congrats.

 

[bgary]

Woohoo!!! that's exciting news!

Congratulations!

 

[Nick J]

Update

We accepted with one minor request; they have the stuffing box adjusted. I wasn't comfortable having the boat sit with a stuffing box leak that cycles the bilge pump a few times an hour and a battery charger that's unreliable. Unfortunately, the holiday make getting a mechanic down to the boat difficult. The broker suggested an allowance for the work. I wasn't really excited about asking for more money off the purchase price, but the owners preferred going this route. I called around and found the same difficulty getting someone down to the boat, so we made another trip over to measure the packing gland and backing bolt and apply some penetrating oil. We also cleaned out the bilge, removed the v birth mattress and bedding, and took inventory of what we would need for engine maintenance since there aren't any engine maintenance records. I've ordered a Yanmar service kit, engine oil extraction pump, and service wrenches for the packing gland. Hopefully next weekend we can make another trip over to do the maintenance and slow the leak to the correct rate. In the meantime, the broker has a person at the marina checking on the boat.

 

[Alan Gomes]

We accepted with one minor request; they have the stuffing box adjusted. I wasn't comfortable having the boat sit with a stuffing box leak that cycles the bilge pump a few times an hour and a battery charger that's unreliable. Unfortunately, the holiday make getting a mechanic down to the boat difficult. The broker suggested an allowance for the work. I wasn't really excited about asking for more money off the purchase price, but the owners preferred going this route. I called around and found the same difficulty getting someone down to the boat, so we made another trip over to measure the packing gland and backing bolt and apply some penetrating oil. We also cleaned out the bilge, removed the v birth mattress and bedding, and took inventory of what we would need for engine maintenance since there aren't any engine maintenance records. I've ordered a Yanmar service kit, engine oil extraction pump, and service wrenches for the packing gland. Hopefully next weekend we can make another trip over to do the maintenance and slow the leak to the correct rate. In the meantime, the broker has a person at the marina checking on the boat.

Not being familiar with the 35-3, I don't know what access is like. But assuming you can readily get at the stuffing box, this is a straightforward job. On the last three boats I've owned (with stuffing boxes), there was no problem changing out the packing with the boat in the water; the bilge pump easily kept up with the flow.

Get yourself a set of picks for removing the old packing (such as these: https://www.harborfreight.com/pick-and-hook-set-7-pc-69592.html). Read up on the procedure from the Compass Marine (MaineSail) site, which gives detailed directions with pictures. https://marinehowto.com/re-packing-a-traditional-stuffing-box/

Regarding the penetrating oil: PB Blaster is highly regarded, though others my suggest their own favorite witch's brew. But do be careful not to spray the penetrating oil on the rubber parts, such as transmissions seals.